Anti-Self Help Crusade

Off Topic
102

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
OP, I’m not trying to disrespect you because it’s clear something happened or something is VERY wrong with you. Sleep on your thoughts and just come back tomorrow and see where your mind is.

I don’t usually recommend this but see someone, whether is a professional or a good friend, I do wish you the very best with this. [/quote]

You can THINK whatever you want about me, even thought it might be false.

Like how I THINK it’s a little disheartening you live so far from NYC!

103

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

And what qualifies excellence?

[/quote]

This is the crux of why straying from the OP question will just take the direct route to utter shitstorm. My mediocre might be your excellence.

104

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

You know:

Carl Lewis
Michael Johnson
Michael Phelps
Christopher Columbus
Jacque Cousteau (spelling?)
Stephen Hawkings
Tesla
Thomas Edison
Herman Oberth
Robert Goddard
Ben Johnson
Ronnie Coleman
Ed Coan
Tiger Woods
Tom Brady
Stephen King

I really don’t have time to mention people who have talent that most people lack and what makes them extraordinary.

Yeah, they’re extraordinary. Where does that put everyone else? [/quote]

Not sure if I’m understanding you correctly, but from the statement above it sounds like your saying there’s only 2 categories. Either you are rich and famous or the absolute best in the world at what you do, or you’re an average Joe. Where do you draw the line between ordinary and extraordinary? The CIO at my last company made $250,000 a year and was one of the smartest computer guys I’ve ever worked with. He’s not the least bit famous. Would you consider him ordinary?
[/quote]

Not ordinary.

I didn’t make myself clear, and it’s sometimes difficult to communicate in the written word (for me at least).

I don’t put people into those two categories. I’ve known and know of some VERY bright, gifted people. My andrologist happens to be one of them, and that’s why I’ve highly recommended him to people in this forum site before, particularly in the Over 35 Lifter forum. The guy’s brilliant! You can enter his name in Pub Med and you can tell he is not only bright, but also a workhorse. His CV is several pages. He’s not ordinary.

The thing is that I DON’T put down Average Joes, like quite a few people do here and what some self help authors do as well in their very subtle ways, and I don’t have a problem with ordinary people, and I don’t have a problem with people that are unambitious.

Take LSU-JOCKGRABBER for example. He wrote above, “I only hang with RICH people.”

Take Kiyosaki, who over and over insinuates that regular people in regular jobs are just a bunch of chumps.

So what do we do with all these ordinary people? Think of them like hare-brained schleps because they don’t have the attributes to be so highly successful in something or monetarily?

106

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
OP, I’m not trying to disrespect you because it’s clear something happened or something is VERY wrong with you. Sleep on your thoughts and just come back tomorrow and see where your mind is.

I don’t usually recommend this but see someone, whether is a professional or a good friend, I do wish you the very best with this. [/quote]

You can THINK whatever you want about me, even thought it might be false.

Like how I THINK it’s a little disheartening you live so far from NYC! [/quote]

We’ve all been there.[/quote]

Perhaps next time we can meet.

Perhaps next time you visit, you’ll run your mouth in public with false assumptions.

107

[quote]biglifter wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

And what qualifies excellence?

[/quote]

This is the crux of why straying from the OP question will just take the direct route to utter shitstorm. My mediocre might be your excellence. [/quote]

Very good post. Seriously!

108

I also find it funny that people think there’s something so disappointed about me or vindictive or frustrated because I pointed out the realities of life–particularly in careers and employment and finances and intellect–in which self help authors delude people!

Actually, when I did away with self help, my outlook and life improved tremendously! I was disappointed far less; started getting along better with co-workers, friends, and family; and started to accept life and people AS IS sometimes. Much of the self help material I was exposed to gave me VERY unrealistic expectations of what life and people should be like!

And what is so negative about challenging ridiculous written work? Like criticizing someone for saying that YOU, the reader, can increase income by 1/4 to 1/2 EVERY year, when it’s clear that nearly all people are NOT in the position to do that.

109

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I also find it funny that people think there’s something so disappointed about me or vindictive or frustrated because I pointed out the realities of life–particularly in careers and employment and finances and intellect–in which self help authors delude people!

Actually, when I did away with self help, my outlook and life improved tremendously! I was disappointed far less; started getting along better with co-workers, friends, and family; and started to accept life and people AS IS sometimes. Much of the self help material I was exposed to gave me VERY unrealistic expectations of what life and people should be like!

And what is so negative about challenging ridiculous written work? Like criticizing someone for saying that YOU, the reader, can increase income by 1/4 to 1/2 EVERY year, when it’s clear that nearly all people are NOT in the position to do that.

[/quote]

If you would have said “some” self-help books are not worth reading I think you would have gotten more agreement from the members. Who could possibly disagree with that? However, many self-help books have helped a lot of people including myself and others on this thread.

110

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I also find it funny that people think there’s something so disappointed about me or vindictive or frustrated because I pointed out the realities of life–particularly in careers and employment and finances and intellect–in which self help authors delude people!

Actually, when I did away with self help, my outlook and life improved tremendously! I was disappointed far less; started getting along better with co-workers, friends, and family; and started to accept life and people AS IS sometimes. Much of the self help material I was exposed to gave me VERY unrealistic expectations of what life and people should be like!

And what is so negative about challenging ridiculous written work? Like criticizing someone for saying that YOU, the reader, can increase income by 1/4 to 1/2 EVERY year, when it’s clear that nearly all people are NOT in the position to do that.

[/quote]

If you would have said “some” self-help books are not worth reading I think you would have gotten more agreement from the members. Who could possibly disagree with that? However, many self-help books have helped a lot of people including myself and others on this thread.
[/quote]

Some have helped me too - the ones that were written by people with real credentials - like the ones I listed above.

I understand you had busy weeks in the early 90s. However, if you slept six to eight hours per day, you couldn’t have had a 20 hour day as BT suggests.

111

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

Not ordinary.

I didn’t make myself clear, and it’s sometimes difficult to communicate in the written word (for me at least).

I don’t put people into those two categories. I’ve known and know of some VERY bright, gifted people. My andrologist happens to be one of them, and that’s why I’ve highly recommended him to people in this forum site before, particularly in the Over 35 Lifter forum. The guy’s brilliant! You can enter his name in Pub Med and you can tell he is not only bright, but also a workhorse. His CV is several pages. He’s not ordinary.

The thing is that I DON’T put down Average Joes, like quite a few people do here and what some self help authors do as well in their very subtle ways, and I don’t have a problem with ordinary people, and I don’t have a problem with people that are unambitious.
[/quote]

OK, I agree with you that my ex-boss and your andrologist are both extraordinary then. People like them are far and few between. They’re definitely gifted. We probably disagree with some of the other stuff but you do have an interesting take on things.

112

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
quietly munches popcorn, amazed at the hypocrisy, ignorance and mindless judgment in this thread
[/quote]

I have to admit, my kneejerk response is to loathe self-help media. In my experience, the people who read self-help books and follow such programs are usually nutjobs. That isn’t to say there are people who don’t fit this profile, this is just what I have witnessed. Obviously, this would only be the folks who advertise their new-found religion and are trying to spread their joy, akin to ‘enthusiastic’ born agains. I’m sure the saner folks just keep it to themselves.

So, not to speak for anyone else, this is why my first thought about self-help is negative. Logically, I can’t find any fault in self-improvement through the wisdom of someone with some insights or similar experiences, or from finding inspiration from a auto-biography.

[quote]
I have no wish to engage in a discussion about this tonight, as I am about to meet someone for dinner, however, I will say that taking a percentage of authors (of any topic) and making broad, all inclusive generalizations about said topic is not only a logical fallacy, but downright ignorant.

And for those of you who don’t know me, I went to prison at 18, got out and went into construction, started a business or two, got into mortgage, bought some real estate, opened a marketing company, got involved with a number of non-profits and economic development organizations, helped a bunch of other small businesses succeed, opened an renewable energy company, and I LOVE Brian Tracy. My bookshelf is a fucking Self Help library.[/quote]

My opinion, off the top of my head and with only the info you’ve provided on this forum about yourself, is that you would have done that without the books. But you can give the credit to the books and I’ll just make Marge Simpson noises of disapproval :wink:

I’m going to qualify that with my own experience: I also come from a background that would surprise most people who know me. Some terrible childhood experiences, on my own at 16, a period without an address, high school dropout, living with an abusive dude until 17 until I fled to BC on my own, worked at many jobs, even fighting significant sexism to get union rate and being the first woman to do a job, saving every penny to put myself through university (and some other details omitted for brevity and self respect, blah blah blah) and now it seems like a different life I’m living with a house I will pay off in a few years, a nice German car in my driveway, and working in one of those fantasy places Brick described where I can go unwind with a PlayStation in the company rec room when my juices aren’t flowing.

Which, with regards to mediocrity, to those around me, my life is pretty average but I don’t think my path was. Although, I don’t really think I’m average because I do tend towards teh crazy, but I think I’m allowed :slight_smile:

But I wouldn’t dare give anyone else credit for anything I’ve ever achieved, but then again that is MY religion. So like folks who must credit God, self-help guru of the day or what have you, I must assert the opposite, because that is where my drive comes from. So I guess it’s a position of bias. Which, I suspect, most folks asserting one way or another are doing so to validate their own experience, with or without help.

Anyway, I gave all that background to make the point that you are who you are and if you want excuses to fail, you’ll make them, and if you want reasons to do well, you’ll find them but I don’t believe that self-help books work on some people because they are so effective, but because the people who make them work wanted them to.

[quote]
I agree that “The Secret” is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever written. It was so bad, I couldn’t finish it! THAT is not what self help is.

It sounds to me that a lot of the folks here who “hate” self help and judge others that have found it useful MAY have a few self limiting beliefs that just MAY be affecting the quality of their lives… Just sayin’…[/quote]

I fucking hate the Secret. And yoga. Just because :stuck_out_tongue:

Once I did get my hands on a self-help book when I was about 18 and it was all about that inner child crap, given to me by a friend who found it worked for her was concerned for me since I was prone to being a bit on the reckless and depressive side, but I couldn’t stomach it and self-pity seemed like a destructive force to indulge. So I never got to far into the book. It ends up, a couple of years later, my friend had a total nervous breakdown and was hospitalized for sometime. So, admittedly, this is probably where most of my bias originates.

114

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
I just believe in FREE WILL and a balanced mind. I’ll say it again, thinking positive is more dangerous than thinking negative. It’s connecting the opposites and living without inner conflict.

Most people don’t actually learn how to let go of their faults so they seek these books, feel good READING THEM, then when they’re done, they look around at the SAME fucking world and it actually puts them into a worse situation. That is not balance.

Hope this thread helped out our friend Brycenyc let go of some stress.

And that is ONE HELLUVA picture. [/quote]

I don’t think Brick is as angry as you guys make him out to be. He’s just ‘expressive’ in his use of language :slight_smile:

116

There is no such thing as self help. If you read a self help book written by someone else, it’s help. If you fix the problem yourself, you never needed help.

117

It’s funny how year after year people talk about striving to be great, not wanting to be average and everything like that, especially when they are in their 30’s. What if you stopped wanting to become something? because you as a biological entity in this world we live in you are not going anywhere.

I want to meet the guy who really is where he wants to be: not gonna happen

118

also I want to add that lifting and eating well for me is basic fucking hygiene. I dont view myself in the future in a glorified state of buffness with everyone finally recognizing me or any of this shit.

119

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I also find it funny that people think there’s something so disappointed about me or vindictive or frustrated because I pointed out the realities of life–particularly in careers and employment and finances and intellect–in which self help authors delude people!

Actually, when I did away with self help, my outlook and life improved tremendously! I was disappointed far less; started getting along better with co-workers, friends, and family; and started to accept life and people AS IS sometimes. Much of the self help material I was exposed to gave me VERY unrealistic expectations of what life and people should be like!

And what is so negative about challenging ridiculous written work? Like criticizing someone for saying that YOU, the reader, can increase income by 1/4 to 1/2 EVERY year, when it’s clear that nearly all people are NOT in the position to do that.

[/quote]

Here’s something that you can’t debate. When you criticize someone or if something about someone pisses you off, it’s just a reflection of your views on your own self. [/quote]

This is absolutely HYSTERICAL, juvenile reasoning as its best!

If you’re put off by the actions or work of someone else, it means you’re put off, and that’s that!

Your bullshit-artist reasoning is right in line with pop culture - kind of like when people used to say about homophobes, “Those guys who hate gay guys are really gay themselves.” Sorry to break it to some grown adults: if you’re repulsed by something or someone, you’re repulsed, and that’s it; has NOTHING to do with your own self image or qualites a person posesses themselves. (And before LSU Jock Grabber ASSUMES yet again, I inform you that I have a gay and a bisexual friend. That was used as a popular example of Jock Grabber’s faulty, infantile logic).

By the way, I’m kind of put off by the work of Jeffrey Dahmer and Albert Fish. Aww, isn’t that a reflection of my own poor self image, my disgust for serial killers and cannibals. How dare I judge them as human beings.

I have a relative who’s inconsiderate and careless. Me saying this about him is just a reflection of my own self esteem.

We should do away with all criticism and judgement for that matter - do away with food critique, movie critique, book reviews, fitness and nutrition product reviews on T-mag, and so on. Better yet, do away with ALL comments and reviews on Amazon and BN. Do away with all restaurant reviews in newspapers. After all, we’re all judging the creators of these things and just throwing our own low self opinion out onto the world.

Nice try, jackass!

120

[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I also find it funny that people think there’s something so disappointed about me or vindictive or frustrated because I pointed out the realities of life–particularly in careers and employment and finances and intellect–in which self help authors delude people!

Actually, when I did away with self help, my outlook and life improved tremendously! I was disappointed far less; started getting along better with co-workers, friends, and family; and started to accept life and people AS IS sometimes. Much of the self help material I was exposed to gave me VERY unrealistic expectations of what life and people should be like!

And what is so negative about challenging ridiculous written work? Like criticizing someone for saying that YOU, the reader, can increase income by 1/4 to 1/2 EVERY year, when it’s clear that nearly all people are NOT in the position to do that.

[/quote]

Here’s something that you can’t debate. When you criticize someone or if something about someone pisses you off, it’s just a reflection of your views on your own self. [/quote]

So if I pissed you off everyday, my actions don’t REALLY piss you off. It’s just your low self opinion coming out in frustration.

Good logic.

For this matter folks, I’m not critical of the work of Bill Clinton for bombing Serbia for NO reason, killing many innocent people. Also not critical of Mao, Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler, Saddamn, and so on. Many people disliked those I speak of too, but who are we all to get pissed off and judge people?

121

[quote]debraD wrote:
I don’t think Brick is as angry as you guys make him out to be. He’s just ‘expressive’ in his use of language :slight_smile:
[/quote]

You’re right, how could we possibly think that?:wink:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Perhaps next time we can meet.

Perhaps next time you visit, you’ll run your mouth in public with false assumptions. [/quote]

In all seriousness though, it just comes off as him being the one that needs the self help books, which is very ironic.

122

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
It’s funny how year after year people talk about striving to be great, not wanting to be average and everything like that, especially when they are in their 30’s. What if you stopped wanting to become something? because you as a biological entity in this world we live in you are not going anywhere.

I want to meet the guy who really is where he wants to be: not gonna happen[/quote]

Well, according to many on this board, those who don’t strive for greatness–that is, those who have regular jobs and ordinary skills and aspirations–are just “ordinary”, LOWER human beings who don’t strive for (here’s a good self help line for ya) “constant and never-ending improvement”. You know, garbage men, gravediggers, orange crate stackers, toothpaste stackers, at Duane Reade, janitors, the Mexican who makes my roast beef sandwich at the deli, waiters, people who wave a wand over my bag at the airport, and so on – all jagoffs who don’t deserve respect because they are in positions in which “greatness” can’t be accomplished, nor is ambition called for.

123

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

I want to meet the guy who really is where he wants to be: not gonna happen[/quote]

Well, thats because people who achieve their goal of being “where they want to be”, tend to set new goals once they are there.

Me for example:

  • Enlisted in the military after high school, fought in two wars and multiple campaigns.
  • Finished my enlistment, got out, joined the Air National Guard in my state.
  • Got right into college, being very successful in my degree (3.8+ GPA in Mechanical Engineering)
  • Have absolutely no debt (and own two good cars), and I get paid to go to school due to my VA benefits, and the Air National Guard picks up most of my tuition.
  • I have a great marriage (been married almost 5 years now) and a great wife
  • I have been offered great co-op oppurtunities with major companies with the aviation industry(which is what I am pursuing), and I get paid to work as an engineer with these companies (actually, I have only co-oped with General Electric, turned down other offers because I like working for GE so much)when I am not in school (like summer time).
  • I will graduate with honors next year, and move on with my life.

Now, am I where I want to be? Of course not, I want to be done with school and working full time, but as far as being where I invisioned I would be (now) 4 years ago, Im spot on.

124

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[quote]smithers584 wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
I don’t think Brick is as angry as you guys make him out to be. He’s just ‘expressive’ in his use of language :slight_smile:
[/quote]

You’re right, how could we possibly think that?:wink:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Perhaps next time we can meet.

Perhaps next time you visit, you’ll run your mouth in public with false assumptions. [/quote]

In all seriousness though, it just comes off as him being the one that needs the self help books, which is very ironic.[/quote]

I believe (don’t know) that Debra actually DOESN’T believe I’m angry because we’re on good terms and she actual comprehends and “gets” what I say on these boards and we’ve seen eye to eye on several matters. So I don’t think she’s kidding about me not being angry.

LSU-STEP-AND-FETCH-IT: It’s a pic of me dressed as Leatherface for Halloween a few years ago.

Here’s a picture that actually shows me happy - an emotion I often feel - NOT anger.