[quote]ladieslove wrote:
the way you talk just sounds like over-compensation, thats all[/quote]
Overcompensation for what? How is my talk a form of compensation? How would I compensate myself or someone else by criticizing the rubbish in self help books?
I don’t understand you.
[quote]nobodyreal wrote:
Angry chicken, two things:
You need to write an ebook about your life story–seriously, I’d read that in one sitting. You are a pretty extrordinary person bro
You talk about the potential good those books could do, but what about the potential BAD? That’s what Brickn is talking about in this thread. Some people go out and set unrealistic goals, and then are constantly dissatisfied because they never hit those goals.
I think wealth is one of those goals that a lot of people aren’t in the situation to gain(or it wouldn’t make sense for them to gain it since it would involve losing a lot of time/taking on a lot of risk).
That danger is there. It’s not there in Tony Robbins “Get the Edge”, which is basically just about being an optimal performer/enjoying this life the best you can, but it’s there in Brian Tracy. For you, a young guy who got ahold of this stuff, this self help material was life-saving. But you obviously had a pretty unique psychology already going into the self help material.
I mean, you were already an intense person. You were selling drugs and you robbed a store. I bet you got into some fights and showed other signs of intensity(maybe video-game addict at some point?).
I don’t know really, I’m just trying to tell you that Jesus was the man, and used that parable of the sower, which is a pretty relevant parable: the same message takes with one person and not another.
Except that parable should be altered a bit, because it’s not that messages don’t ‘take’ to certain people and they do to others, but that one individual message is interpreted/applied very differently by different people. IE, the Christian message. Made my brother a pretty good guy, made me a beta fag. We both applied it differently.
The 4 hour work week is like that, that book is a piece of shit propoganda piece, yet I’ve been on the forum and have seen these people who are quitting their jobs/avoiding legitmately increasing their skillset/marketability to start some BS affiliate marketing career. But I’ve also seen a guy who started a lucrative japanese car import business from the same message.
Meh, it’s pretty weird. I think people just interpret messages differently. One person focuses in on some positive things in Zig’s books, the things that actually will make a difference(i.e. the importance of self image, the importance of being friendly, the power of setting SMALL goals to start and then work with those), and others focus on the BS promise claims.
Anyways, this community should be really well-read in self help literature. I know that Cressey talked about some of the books he was reading in a thread, and they were very ‘self help’ oriented. Afterall, bodybuilding is viewed by us as something that improves ourselves. 
Edit: I just wanted to add, I’m a successful guy who runs an internet business. My story is similar to your story in the themes. The difference is that you were engaged in one type of fruitless labor, crime, and I was engaged in another, online gaming/compulsive guitar playing. At some point, I think we both went through identical psychological shifts.
When you said that you realized the game was rigged(or something like that), you were basically saying that you believed your current lifestyle was undesirable. Same with me.
Then you got ahold of some outside inspiration(maybe from biographies?) that made you realize you could free yourself from that undesirable station. Same here(it was Tony Robbins for me, Get the Edge from a torrent site).
Then, you began taking action and building momentum. same here.
Now, you’ve followed your momentum along and you are successful. Same here.
I was the unproductive video-game nerd/guitar player who dropped out and became a basement dwelling fatty, you were something a lot different, but I think that path to success(both in business) was pretty similar. Though, we both had inactive character qualities I believe, or I should say–characteristics that were being exercised in minor ways(unproductive ways).
This requires a longer post, but I have to get back to work. 7 days a week playa–I run two SEO businesses, one specializing in high caliber jobs(15k+) and another that is built to handle local businesses with a low front-end sale and a very profitable back-end(year subscriptions to my small biz marketing newsletter, copy analysis from a copywriting firm who I have a deal with). It’s pretty awesome. [/quote]
You made some interesting points. First of all, props for running two successful businesses. I know how hard that is. What you said about people interpreting things differently really made me think.
You and Brick are both right that some people just set unrealistic expectations as a result of reading certain materials. But not everyone does. I think that dreaming and calculated risk is appropriate as long as you have the judgment to properly asses the risk. This takes a certain amount of life experience and willingness to do the work to make it happen. I’ve found that this comes from developing a thick skin and a high self esteem.
This combination, no matter how it has been developed, seems to me to make up the majority of the successful people that I know (those not born with a silver spoon).
So I guess I must re-state my opinion to be, CERTAIN people, who are at a point in their development that they have the necessary foundation to evolve in that direction, can benefit tremendously from SOME of the “self help” materials out there.
Other people who lack either the maturity, life experience, self confidence/frame, or skill set can completely fuck up their lives by attempting to go down a road they aren’t ready for.
Thank you for your perspective. FTR: I have never played video games, LOL
ANGRY CHICKEN wrote: "So I guess I must re-state my opinion to be, CERTAIN people, who are at a point in their development that they have the necessary foundation to evolve in that direction, can benefit tremendously from SOME of the “self help” materials out there.
Other people who lack either the maturity, life experience, self confidence/frame, or skill set can completely fuck up their lives by attempting to go down a road they aren’t ready for."
I’m glad you finally mentioned this.
NOBODYREAL mentioned that Eric Cressey recommends some self help books. I’ve spoken to him on the phone twice. I’m not surprised he recommends self help books. Why?
Because things like extremely tight time management, ambition, a hard-driving disposition, entrepreneurship, skill acquisition and improvement, and various things and attributes apply to an exceptionally talented, charismatic, workaholic young man like himself.
He runs a business in which some of his clientele is pro and Olympic athletes, writes prolifically, and tours the damn country giving presentations to athletic and academic societies.
I seriously don’t understand why grown adults in this forum can’t seem to grasp the fact that those qualities and attributes DON’T apply to the barely English-literate immigrant who made my Cobb salad at Coci in Manhattan today. I don’t even understand why they can’t understand how those things don’t even apply to my mother who has been a teacher for almost thirty years.
My mother, who I look up to greatly, never dealt with any of the shit that self help authors, especially Brian Tracy, are constantly clamoring about:
Fear of failure. She didn’t have to fear much because she was never a neglectful, irresponsible, incompetent teacher. The only serious nuisance she ever experienced is some jerkoff, narcissistic principal. She’s highly competent.
She’s bilingual and teaches ESL first to third grades. She has a near zero absence and lateness rate in THIRTY years. She never had employment gaps besides maternity leaves. Never fired. Never laid off.
“Thinking big” aka “dreaming” aka “having a an intensely burning desire” aka “awakening the giant within”. Absolutely no fucking need to! And what giant was she going awaken? A giant first and third grade teacher teaching a 100 percent Spanish speaking immigrant class?
She wanted to be a teacher since she was a little girl, became a teacher, eventually wound up with a low six-figure salary, and has remained a teacher for near thirty years. She retires after the next school year. No dreaming, intensely burning desire, or thinking big was required.
Time management a la Brian Tracy style aka managing every waking minute of the day. Again, no need to. She gets up on time, arrives to work early, does what must be done for the day, and goes home. Then she has dinner with her partner, watches, goes for a brisk walk, watches some TV and/or reads, and then goes to sleep.
Same goes for my granddad, another hero of mine, who told me long ago: 1) “You don’t have to think,” and 2) “You’re not supposed to dream.” For all those who tell me I discourage improving one’s circumstance because I dislike most self help products, I say take a flying leap because here’s a man who had a miserable upbringing and about FIVE YEARS of education in his whole life and wound up PRETTY DARN GOOD in the end (“middle class millionaire”).
He’s was a REAL ghetto boy from Havana, Cuba - what they call a “callejeto” - a streetboy. Dirt poor with a mom who didn’t work and an undereducated father with mood disorders. He never thought or dreamed. He just did. And that was selling stuff.
He told me, “When I opened the store in the Bronx, I DIDN’T think. I had no money in the bank. All I did was open a store, put merchandise out, attended work 6 to 7 days a week, and that was it!”
He never dreamed or thought big, as such foolish mind games served him no purpose. I don’t think they would’ve served a purpose for an EIGHT year old kid expected to work to feed his family selling lottery tickets and bus tickets on a street in 1940s Cuba.
Angry: I also understand your discussion of mindset. However, most people with fairly ordinary career tracks and lives–that is, about 99% of the WORLD–don’t require epiphanies and groundbreaking paradigm shifts in thinking. I used two of my family members as examples. I can use hundreds of examples of people I know and have met. I’ll use more for further explanation.
Cousin, a port authority cop. Happy as a PIG IN SHIT with his career choice. He took the test, went through academy, became a cop. He attends work and does some overtime. THAT’S LIFE!
Best friend since 8 years old, a social worker. Loved his education for his MSW; liked loved studying social work. Loves being a social worker. Isn’t motivated by money, but loves helping people - people that most of us don’t or wouldn’t help. One of the greatest men I’ve ever met! Gets paid little and doesn’t give a shit!
Another one happy as a pig in shit. Has a wife he loves and a small apartment. Loves small things in life. Lives off the land (literally); grows some of his own veggies and fruits in the summer time at a little garden they have in this very urban community.
Gets kicks off of free entertainment - making his own cheese, wine, bread, beer, and ice cream, reading, and listening to music. No Mercedes, no lofty ambitions, no dreaming of being rich. THAT’S LIFE!
Uncle. Worked for papa and eventually took business, a clothing store. Has a stay-at-home wife that he loves dearly since he was 17 years old. Loves his kids. Will do almost ANYTHING for ME, his family, his siblings, and his parents.
Wakes up for a 9 to 10 hour day six days per week in which he helps customers, manages employees, and most of the time, STANDS AROUND doing nothing because that’s the nature of retail. No complaints! No discontent! And certainly no dreaming. I don’t know if he (or anyone I mentioned here) is THRILLED with life, but he’s usually in a good mood. THAT’S LIFE!
Close friend, a UPS worker. Let me tell you, this guy LOVES his job - just loves driving around in that truck delivering packages to people! Loves his fiance. VERY rare to see this guy in a bad mood and NEVER dreams of dumb shit! Loves lifting.
Reads T-mag and EliteFTS religiously. How did he set this life up? He interviewed with UPS and got the job. He’s a good, friendly man, so he got a nice woman. End of story! THAT’S LIFE!
I ask you: Does this sound complicated? Does this sound something that requires extraordinary abilities and shifts in thinking? Does this sound extraordinary? Do any of these people even need to bothered with thinking of dumb shit?
What I also find ironic is USC-WATERBOY’S false assumption and accusation of those closest to me of abuse. That is, he speaks of respect, but goes to new heights in DISRESPECT by falsely accusing people that he doesn’t know - people very close to me, like relatives and friends - of abusing me because of my dislike of self help.
This really takes the cake and bears repeating - accusing my relatives and/or friends of abusing me. Do you know how insulting and disrespectful THIS sounds. Not only are you disrespecting me, you’re disrespecting them - people you know nothing about.
I just hope you run around saying stuff like this to people in person at the slightest sign of criticism they have for someone or something, as in the case with me disliking self help information. You just might have a fist connecting with your dome before you can speak further.
^^that was great
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
^^that was great[/quote]
JAS:
Thanks. This guy communicates like a bratty woman - just pops in and says disrespectful dumb shit. Bratty women do this, oftentimes in workplaces, because they know that nothing will happen to them; no man in his right mind is going to hit a woman unless she threatening or inflicting serious bodily harm to him.
Men on the other hand have to watch what they say because many men have no problem drawing their fists, threatening violence, and/or losing their temper to show when a situation ISN’T A GAME.
[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
Oh buddy, I’d take care of you in seconds in real life. Stop chirping and go deliver some pizzas. [/quote]
More mature discourse.
Brick, awesome post up there. Those are good stories that show it was just a simple process going for success.
BUT(by the way I’m liking this discussion)–when you have negative programming it might not be simple anymore. And I think most men who go to public schools have some type of negative programming, they have had their work-ethic/masculinity beat out of them, so they have to be out of HS for awhile to regain it(that’s the case with me at least).
Either way, your grandfather was an alpha dude.
The educational system as we have it right now is bad for men. This has been discussed in Dr. Robert Glover’s book No More Mr. Nice Guy, a “self help” book I actually love because it provides NO fairytale, New Age junk, and explains how modern society has produced a bunch of spineless, feminized, flat footed, limp wristed jerkoffs scared to talk to women and fantasizing about pornstars and women they’ll never get - as we can see so often in the SAMA forum - men who don’t get ass but make several-dozen-page threads dedicated to women and female bodyparts they’ll never get or fondle or fuck.
We have more and more divorces in which the woman gets to keep the kids and the father sees the kid minimally. Not to mention the negligent divorced or married men who do little for their sons in being a man.
The school system doesn’t help either because we’re constantly being taught by women; there are very few male teachers up until college, and even then they are mostly women. My field is 99% female (that’s a literal figure). In classes for my major, I only had two male professors ever. The most male students we had in a class was three. In my internship, it was me and some other dude. Most people would think this is fun for a guy, to have all female co-workers, teachers, and classmates. It’s actually NOT.
That’s why Dr. Glover recommends spending as much time with men, if not more, than you do with females as constantly hanging out in the NURSERY SCHOOL destroys male energy and the male soul. It weakens their personality.
And thanks for the compliment on my granddad. He’s pretty alpha, and used to be semi-crazy. He once got out of his car in bumper-to-bumper traffic, kicked some guy’s door in that cut him off previously, and then casually got back in his own car.
Another time he was kind of sandwiched in between two parked cars, so he didn’t have room to back up and get out of the spot. There was a person in the car behind him who didn’t respond to his honking and yelling. So he said, “You don’t wanna move? I’ll move you!”, slowly backed up his car while moving the car behind him with the guy in it, and drove off.
Another time he threw some guy on the snow covered ground in the winter because the guy thought he could (wrongfully) reserve a parking spot on the street in front of his house that my uncle had taken.
When he was little and hungry, he used to run into the backs of restaurants for food. He got chased out once, but retaliated with a few rocks thrown at windows of the restaurant.
Hey Brick, I think you are a lucking man to have such fantastic role models in your family. Seriously. There were times in my life where I would have given my right arm for a functional family.
I also want to further elaborate on a few of the things you brought up. I don’t believe that everyone HAS to make it big, or should even aspire to… Especially in vocations such as teaching - my mother was a teacher as well (French, Spanish and ESL - Go figure! LOL), so I saw how much work she brought home during the school year and how we practically starved in the summertime when she wasn’t working. I think that careers that give back to the community ARE important and it is borderline criminal that we treat/pay the teaching profession the way we do (not gonna touch the subject of teacher’s unions though)
I was an electrician doing pretty well. As I said before, I was at the top of my field. There are plenty of electricians who would LOVE to be in the position that I was in: money over scale, service truck, Foreman/Project Manager, two weeks paid vacation, etc… For a blue collar worker, I had climbed the stairway of electrical heaven. The problem was that every morning at 4:30 when I woke up, the first thought I had was, “FUCK!” or, “SHIT, not another fucking day at this bullshit”. First thought, every day. The more I understood about how jobs were bid out, and how labor and material was billed at a FAR higher rate than they were paying me, the more I began to become dissatisfied. That’s how it was for ME. Now keep in mind, that I was one of the top five in my apprenticeship class, a FIVE year program that is a LOT harder and more intense than people give blue collar guys credit for - seriously, most decent electricians can look at a drawing that looks like just a bunch of lines and letters to most people and build a motor control station out of it, but I digress. The reason I got into this in the first place was because I just got out of jail, and the only job I could get was in construction. I knew I was a lot smarter than about 99% of the people I was working with or for, but as I didn’t have a whole lot of options, I just decided to be the best at it. That shit got old, man. Seriously. Dealing with people who’s main aspiration in life was to work enough overtime hours so that they could afford season tickets for the Redskins is DRAINING! I felt like my IQ dropped 40 points every time I went to work. But the thought of putting MY ass on the line (high voltage switchgear work is dangerous) and making someone else rich really burned my ass. So that’s why I got out of it.
Had I gone through a more “normal” childhood and what not, I probably never would have gone to prison, probably college instead, and done something else. I don’t think the rest of the story would be much different, though. I truly believe that if I got a degree in engineering or business or something, I would have gotten dissatisfied after about ten years and would have STILL wanted to do my own thing. After working FOR someone for all those years and then working for myself, the difference is amazing. I actually look forward to waking up in the morning (whenever the hell I want to, but generally around 7 or 8). I have control of my time, my schedule, and to an extent, my income. I have the FREEDOM to travel, work out when I want, help my family out (my grandmother is in a better nursing home than her retirement would have allowed, all of the children in my family have their own laptop for school, etc…) I am able to make a bigger impact on the lives of people that I care about. I was able to start a renewable energy company to make a difference in an area that I feel very strongly about - helping our PLANET… I can make a difference (however small). Now, if you aren’t my accountant, you would never know that I make the money that I do.
Now don’t get me wrong: I definitely had a brief “adjustment” period when I first started making good money and went out and leased a BMW AND a Lexus, and dropped a buch of money at clubs on 800 dollar bottles of Grey Goose (Brilliant, eh? I don’t even LIKE GG!) went to Vegas a bunch of times (ended up ahead, though), etc… However, these days I don’t have a “super high” standard of living. I now drive a Toyota Corolla (that I own). While I own four properties outright, they aren’t mansions, they were very good investments that I could afford to buy with cash and fix up and rent out. I live in a small two bedroom condo. I shop at Target. My watch is a $1200 Movado, not an $8000 Rolex. My suits are mostly Jos A Banks… bought on the buy one, get two free specials! (I am a TOTAL shoe whore, though, but I always get them on sale) I fly to the Dominican Republic when I can get 5 days all inclusive for under $800 - including airfare. I am very frugal and look at my money as energy that can be leveraged and put to work, not something that can temporarily buy me a “quick fix” for an emotional need that I have.
I didn’t have this outlook when I was an electrician making ~$40 an hour. Now I’m sure that me building the most reliable switchgear to power the buildings in Washington DC would also have made a difference, but I wanted more. I knew I had it in me to do better and make an impact. And helping others really changes you on the inside. I am a much more grounded person now. I don’t suffer fools easily. I Despise gold diggers (I can spot those greedy bitches a mile away and make it a point to fuck them without spending a PENNY). I don’t act as recklessly as I used to. I spent much more time with my boys. It’s kinda weird when I look back at all the wild shit I used to do and no longer have the time or energy (or desire) for…
One of my mentors told me that there are basically FOUR levels you can be in life: Survival, Stability, Success, and Significance. I want to be in a place where I can make a difference. Not everyone wants that. Some folks are happy just going to work. Believe me - I have thought PLENTY of times about just letting it all go and just bartending three nights a week. I could get by quite comfortably that way and get laid like a rockstar. I have enough passive income and money in the bank where it is very tempting when the stress gets to me. But then I think of my Grandmother. I think of the potential difference my renewable energy company could make (I DON’T think about mortgages! While the money is nice, and I’m good at it, it’s more of a pain in the ass these days than anything else - it is the source of my greatest stress). So that’s what it was like for me and why I changed careers.
In summary, I would just say that as long as a person is content with their life and what they are doing they should stay put. If they are NOT happy, then they should DO something about it. If they fail, so what? At least they learned from it. I have learned far more about myself from my failures than from my successes. The most important thing is to figure out what you want, figure out how to get there, and do the work. If you want to be where you are, then ENJOY IT!
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
The educational system as we have it right now is bad for men. This has been discussed in Dr. Robert Glover’s book No More Mr. Nice Guy, a “self help” book I actually love because it provides NO fairytale, New Age junk, and explains how modern society has produced a bunch of spineless, feminized, flat footed, limp wristed jerkoffs scared to talk to women and fantasizing about pornstars and women they’ll never get - as we can see so often in the SAMA forum - men who don’t get ass but make several-dozen-page threads dedicated to women and female bodyparts they’ll never get or fondle or fuck.
We have more and more divorces in which the woman gets to keep the kids and the father sees the kid minimally. Not to mention the negligent divorced or married men who do little for their sons in being a man.
The school system doesn’t help either because we’re constantly being taught by women; there are very few male teachers up until college, and even then they are mostly women. My field is 99% female (that’s a literal figure). In classes for my major, I only had two male professors ever. The most male students we had in a class was three. In my internship, it was me and some other dude. Most people would think this is fun for a guy, to have all female co-workers, teachers, and classmates. It’s actually NOT.
That’s why Dr. Glover recommends spending as much time with men, if not more, than you do with females as constantly hanging out in the NURSERY SCHOOL destroys male energy and the male soul. It weakens their personality. [/quote]
Great post, Brick - I agree 100%
I like your post above as I do all of them. It’s very interesting, and I read every sentence.
I do hope you know that I’m GLAD that not everyone is thinking of making it big, because as I said before, this world would be FUCKING RIDICULOUS if everyone could or desired to make it big.
I’ll go through my day this past Saturday, which would have been absolute drudgery had it not been for people who didn’t or couldn’t make it big - and above all, probably never DREAMED or thought of making it big.
I got on the Long Island Railroad. Someone has to drive the trains. You know, a TRAIN DRIVER. A TRAIN CONDUCTOR sold me the ticket; you know the guy who spends his whole day punching tickets and accepting money (how exciting). I went to Coci and an immigrant SALAD AND SANDWICH MAKER made my Cobb salad and another one, a CASHIER accepted my money. I then went to Jamba Juice and a SMOOTHIE MAKER made my smoothie and a CASHIER rang me up.
Later that night, a barely English literate BUSYBOY set up my table at my friend’s restaurant. A WAITER took my order and delivered my meal. My friend spends most of his night simply WALKING AROUND just looking at people.
Should these sort of people who assisted me for compensation DREAM? Should they think big? Do you even think they’re gonna make it big? Should they even make it big?
If every damn one of them and people like them makes it big, their jobs will be unfilled and I’ll be out of a goddamn train ride, a shake, a salad, a dinner at a restaurant, and so on! We’d actually DEVOLVE if it weren’t for people who didn’t take these roles and spent their mental energy with mind games involving delusions of grandeur!
Who would drive my cab, dig my grave when I’m dead, ring me up at McD’s, serve me a pizza slice, deal with me at the bank, wash toilets at my job, pick the apples I eat, deliver my UPS packages, and so on?
I hope you didn’t gloss over these things I’ve spoken about over and over.
Bump.
Brick - remember haters gon’ hate
I like most of the stuff you post and most of it makes more sense that the things you speak out against
that’s all, now I’ll stop swingin on your nuts
[quote]polo77j wrote:
Brick - remember haters gon’ hate
I like most of the stuff you post and most of it makes more sense that the things you speak out against
that’s all, now I’ll stop swingin on your nuts :)[/quote]
Thanks dude.
And yeah, everyone’s gonna hate me because I make everyone aware of just how fucking ordinary %99.9… percent of this world is - including people on this board who boast and brag and dream as if they were next Bill Gates, Peter North, William Shockley, Bo Jackson, or Catherine the Great.
[quote]usctrojansfan wrote:
Polo,
You’re right, back on track. Please give us a brief description as to what you guys think the Law of Attraction is and I totally understand, you first think fat lazy people sitting on couches wishing they were famous. Lets get beyond this. I am universal because this thread says: Law of Attraction sucks, I want to spend my day bashing it online.
First off, who gives a fuck?
Second, what do you think it is from a SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLE?[/quote]
This guy writes like an idiot.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And yeah, everyone’s gonna hate me because I make everyone aware of just how fucking ordinary %99.9… percent of this world is [/quote]
Don’t give yourself too much credit man. You just ain’t that important. 