I agree with the 10/22 crowd if you are just wanting to plink. Ammo is cheaper too. I’d also suggest staying with the .357 if you aren’t used to shooting a semi-auto. I agree with your instructor on the shotgun, but in 12 ga. 00 buck.
[quote]farmermaggot wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
farmermaggot wrote:
My NRA instructor suggested a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense. Nothing will make a burglar shit his pants faster than the sound of a shotgun being cocked.
that’s just fucking stupid.
if someone is illegally in my house stealing my shit and threatening my life, i am not going to rack a shotgun, chamber a round in my pistol, call out ‘HEY, i’m calling 911’ or any of those other stupid things.
you know what makes a burglar shit his pants? when i’ve drilled three .45 hollow-points into his chest.
if i’m robbing your house, i’m assuming you are either A.)not home B.)asleep and/or C.)not much of a threat.
racking a shotgun and announcing your presence only heightens the situation. now you have potentially turned his crime from a simply burglary into possible murder. you have also given up the element of surprise, location, AND the fact that you are armed.
and why the hell was a 20ga shotgun suggested to you by a supposed ‘NRA instructor’
the only conclusion i can draw from that is you are such a goddamn soyboy the instructor felt you lacked the appropriate amount of balls to handle a 12guage.
good day.
I asked about the 12 gauge. He said you wouldn’t want to hit a human body with a 12 gauge inside your house. Makes a hell of a mess and blasts your eardrums. This guy is a former cop and has been a certified NRA instructor for years so I assume he knows what he’s talking about. But I don’t doubt what you said, three slugs to the chest would be better.
[/quote]
The best tactic in home defense scenarios is usually to call it in to 911 and barricade yourself in a defensive position in a bedroom or bathroom. If you have kids of course you need to secure them first.
Think about it. The cops don’t clear a house alone if they know someone is in there. Your intruder is not about to attack a defended position and if he does you have cover and he doesn’t. Pursuing an intruder, armed, if you’ve never done it before has a low probability of success. If you’ve never pointed a gun at a man and pulled the trigger I can guarantee you that you will hesitate the first time.
Thanks guys!
I had kinda narrowed it down to the glock or the XD and that seems to be the concensus in this thread. Time to go try a few out and see what feels better…
[quote]farmermaggot wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
farmermaggot wrote:
My NRA instructor suggested a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense. Nothing will make a burglar shit his pants faster than the sound of a shotgun being cocked.
that’s just fucking stupid.
if someone is illegally in my house stealing my shit and threatening my life, i am not going to rack a shotgun, chamber a round in my pistol, call out ‘HEY, i’m calling 911’ or any of those other stupid things.
you know what makes a burglar shit his pants? when i’ve drilled three .45 hollow-points into his chest.
if i’m robbing your house, i’m assuming you are either A.)not home B.)asleep and/or C.)not much of a threat.
racking a shotgun and announcing your presence only heightens the situation. now you have potentially turned his crime from a simply burglary into possible murder. you have also given up the element of surprise, location, AND the fact that you are armed.
and why the hell was a 20ga shotgun suggested to you by a supposed ‘NRA instructor’
the only conclusion i can draw from that is you are such a goddamn soyboy the instructor felt you lacked the appropriate amount of balls to handle a 12guage.
good day.
I asked about the 12 gauge. He said you wouldn’t want to hit a human body with a 12 gauge inside your house. Makes a hell of a mess and blasts your eardrums. This guy is a former cop and has been a certified NRA instructor for years so I assume he knows what he’s talking about. But I don’t doubt what you said, three slugs to the chest would be better.
[/quote]
I’ve had an individual shot in my house with a 12 guage - It does the trick. Nobody loss their hearing. As for the mess, I’d rather clean up than be cleaned up. Get a 12GA for HD, a 1911 for CCW and a Rem 700 for target shooting.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
farmermaggot wrote:
My NRA instructor suggested a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense. Nothing will make a burglar shit his pants faster than the sound of a shotgun being cocked.
that’s just fucking stupid.
if someone is illegally in my house stealing my shit and threatening my life, i am not going to rack a shotgun, chamber a round in my pistol, call out ‘HEY, i’m calling 911’ or any of those other stupid things.
you know what makes a burglar shit his pants? when i’ve drilled three .45 hollow-points into his chest.
if i’m robbing your house, i’m assuming you are either A.)not home B.)asleep and/or C.)not much of a threat.
racking a shotgun and announcing your presence only heightens the situation. now you have potentially turned his crime from a simply burglary into possible murder. you have also given up the element of surprise, location, AND the fact that you are armed.
and why the hell was a 20ga shotgun suggested to you by a supposed ‘NRA instructor’
the only conclusion i can draw from that is you are such a goddamn soyboy the instructor felt you lacked the appropriate amount of balls to handle a 12guage.
good day.[/quote]
- A 20 guage shotgun will carry more knock down power in close quarters than your .45 b/c of the amount of powder in the shell and the extra lead.
- If you are using for home protection remember, it will most likely be at night, you just woke up, and need to act fast and accurately. Use a shotgun.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
you know what makes a burglar shit his pants? when i’ve drilled three .45 hollow-points into his chest.
[/quote]
Castle doctrine + loaded HD weapon = This response exactly
Check your state laws and act accordingly. Bump in the night? You’re sure it’s an intruder? Do you fear for your life or that of your loved ones? That’s all you need.
BOOM. No “hey man, I don’t like you in my house”… just gunfire.
Also, expect burglaries/home invasions/etc to increase in the coming years. I live in a decent part of Indianapolis (Northeast side) and neighboring neiborhoods (hehe, sounds kinda silly) are reporting more and more break-ins. A local church even got ransacked a few weeks back. This is/was NOT a ‘bad’ part of town by any means, but the ‘bad’ area is moving (enlarging).
P.S. HolyMac, remember our lil discussion on a S&W snubby rocking CT grips? I think I’m gonna go with a S&W M&P 340 w/ CTs. I’m actually coming to the point where it’s a chore to strap on my Glock30. I’d rather pack have 5rds of .357 mag than no rounds of .45, ya know?
And while I’m bringing up threads from days past, I looked into an OCS program and I’m just waiting on taking my LSAT (Dec 5th) to figure out how to proceed. Wouldn’t want you to think you spent all that time ‘splaining Army stuff to a civie for nothin’. Buddy of mine just signed up and won’t ship off to basic (Ft. Jackson) 'til May. He’s going OCS eventually. Weird that he has to wait so long? I’d wanna be oscar mike ASAP. 
/threadjack
For a pistol I would go with the XD .45. Its nice and it is not to expensive. But for home defense I would consider a shotgun. Mossberg 500 or 930SPX. The 500 is better actually. The 930 doesnt cycle all ammo that you put in it. As far as a rifle goes. Basically any Remington 700 will do. I have the 700 LTR, hard to find but is an overall good rifle. But with the price of ammo you will be better off just getting a Ruger 10/22 to pling with unless you want to hunt with your rifle.
I have an AR 15 but I wouldnt suggest buying one. You might pay $900 for it but a year later it will add up to about $2K. You can never stop putting parts on it…
[quote]RJK wrote:
- A 20 guage shotgun will carry more knock down power in close quarters than your .45 b/c of the amount of powder in the shell and the extra lead.
- If you are using for home protection remember, it will most likely be at night, you just woke up, and need to act fast and accurately. Use a shotgun. [/quote]
(sorry for the old pic)
this is what i have for home defense. it’s a storm in 9mm. when it’s in the room it has a standard 15rd magazine the runs flush with the grip. (extended is just for fucking around)
my girlfriend sleeps over a lot of nights. i have painted the cocking handle and safety a bright orange. she has shot the gun often and knows how do to f2f drills, and the bright orange will help in high stress situations IMO. the extended barrel of the carbine means greater accuracy than a pistol, and the extra size and weight of the carbine allows for much less recoil. a standard magazine has 15 rounds, more than double that of a 1911. while she does know how to reload, the idea is she shouldn’t have to.
all she’d have to do is get on the far end of the bed and prop it on the bed facing the bedroom door.
to many people watch movies and don’t realize how complicated it actually is to use a firearm properly
edit* forgot to add, hollowpoints are used, and the eotech is not. she just turns on the visible laser and points it at the door.
[quote]Rev1911 wrote:
P.S. HolyMac, remember our lil discussion on a S&W snubby rocking CT grips? I think I’m gonna go with a S&W M&P 340 w/ CTs. I’m actually coming to the point where it’s a chore to strap on my Glock30. I’d rather pack have 5rds of .357 mag than no rounds of .45, ya know?
[/quote]
awesome!
yeah my buddy has the S&W in .38+p with crimson trace on it. FUCK it’s nice. not to mention the mofo just points and shoots, fuck having to look at the sights.
everyone wants some chunky sexy semi auto for ccw (i am guilty of this) but a snub with an enclosed hammer and CT grips is really starting to look hella appealing.
now if i didn’t have fucking xmas and bullshit to have to buy shit for ppl, i’d be able to get one. oh well
edit* GODDAMMIT I’M SO USED TO JUST PUTTING UP PICS I FORGOT TO BLACK OUT THE FACE. lol fml
If you want a 45, get and XD. Stay away from Kimbers. they use MIM parts and don’t always hold up well, as evidenced by my safety falling off after firing app 250 rounds on a new SIS.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
edit* GODDAMMIT I’M SO USED TO JUST PUTTING UP PICS I FORGOT TO BLACK OUT THE FACE. lol fml[/quote]
And we have to pay the price…THANKS!!!
OP,
As others have said you just need to get some trigger time with a variety and see what you like. The best gun for you to use in a self defense situation is the most reliable/comfortable gun. What’s the point of using anything about a 22 if you can’t hit anything and/or handle the recoil? That being said try to at least get a 9mm that you can become incredibly proficient with.
Give us more info so we can give you further advice.
My first gun was an XD45 service model. I am somewhat of a beginner shooter and I swear for the life of me I could not hit shit at 10 yards with that thing. Then I sold it and bought a kimber custom II and my 10 yard shots are much more accurate on average. Maybe I just suck at shooting but I really like the heavier weight when shooting a .45. Smaller calibers such as .40 and 9mm are better suited for those polymer frame pistols IMHO.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
Krankphreak wrote:
I highly suggest the Springfield XD-45. It’s a high capacity .45 and won pistol of the year a couple years back when it first came out. Lots of cops are switching to this from their Sigs. It feels great, very ergonomically friendly, and comes with a holster and magazine holster with 2 mags. It also has a built in utility rail below the barrel so if you want to add a light or laser all you have to do is screw it on with dovetail clamps. I think this is the absolute best .45 on the market right now.
blah blah blah. all of this is true.
plus if you are going to use it for home defense and not CCW, you can get the ‘tactical’ version which includes a 5in long barrel. pretty awesome-sauce IMO.
get the damn XD. don’t bother paying the extra money for the XDm version, it’s not worth it.
tell me how you like it.
[/quote]
The XD is a great gun, and the XDm is not worth the extra $$$.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
My first gun was an XD45 service model. I am somewhat of a beginner shooter and I swear for the life of me I could not hit shit at 10 yards with that thing. Then I sold it and bought a kimber custom II and my 10 yard shots are much more accurate on average. Maybe I just suck at shooting but I really like the heavier weight when shooting a .45. Smaller calibers such as .40 and 9mm are better suited for those polymer frame pistols IMHO. [/quote]
honestly, i think a lot of people that go out and buy guns and shoot them recreationally never get formal training on how to shoot it from different positions and have inherent faults with their shooting technique resulting in poor groupings.
spending some time with people who know what they are talking about can make HUGE differences.
and that doesn’t mean everyone who’s a cop or in the army knows what the hell they are doing when it comes to guns. i’m talking about people who shoot guns A LOT.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
StevenF wrote:
My first gun was an XD45 service model. I am somewhat of a beginner shooter and I swear for the life of me I could not hit shit at 10 yards with that thing. Then I sold it and bought a kimber custom II and my 10 yard shots are much more accurate on average. Maybe I just suck at shooting but I really like the heavier weight when shooting a .45. Smaller calibers such as .40 and 9mm are better suited for those polymer frame pistols IMHO.
honestly, i think a lot of people that go out and buy guns and shoot them recreationally never get formal training on how to shoot it from different positions and have inherent faults with their shooting technique resulting in poor groupings.
spending some time with people who know what they are talking about can make HUGE differences.
and that doesn’t mean everyone who’s a cop or in the army knows what the hell they are doing when it comes to guns. i’m talking about people who shoot guns A LOT.[/quote]
Yeah…I was gonna make this same point. There is a Jeff Cooper quote that firearms instructors love that is relevant…
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
~Jeff Cooper
So many people buy a gun for home defense, or worse CCW, and then never take the time to get training…figuring the gun will do the trick should they ever need it.
When purchasing a gun, the cost for initial training should be figured in. Check out Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Rogers Shooting School, Blackwater, etc. And then after that, join a local gun club that participates in IDPA…International Defensive Pistol Association. These are perishable skills…you have to get trained and keep training. And on that note…another quote…
“Every time I teach a class, I discover I don’t know something.”
~Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch
[quote]JPCleary wrote:
So many people buy a gun for home defense, or worse CCW, and then never take the time to get training…figuring the gun will do the trick should they ever need it.
[/quote]
This is so freaking true and scary!!! I’m by no means an expert marksman but do carry daily, if I go more than 2-3 weeks without shooting I notice the groupings go from 9s to all over the place. People buy a gun and think they’re safe just like people drink protein and go to the gym thinking they’ll get jacked, it just doesn’t work that way. Gotta shoot that some bitch.
OP gotta recommend the G30, ugly fucking little brick but by far the best subcompact I’ve ever shot, recoil is straight back making it easy as hell to get back on target.
The tupperware guns (XD, S&W and Glocks) are all pretty equal in reliability and IMO you can’t go wrong with any of them, best thing to do, like others said, go to a range that has all the ones you like and spend a few hours trigger time with them then buy. Get what feels right.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
farmermaggot wrote:
My NRA instructor suggested a 20 gauge shotgun for home defense. Nothing will make a burglar shit his pants faster than the sound of a shotgun being cocked.
that’s just fucking stupid.
if someone is illegally in my house stealing my shit and threatening my life, i am not going to rack a shotgun, chamber a round in my pistol, call out ‘HEY, i’m calling 911’ or any of those other stupid things.
you know what makes a burglar shit his pants? when i’ve drilled three .45 hollow-points into his chest.
if i’m robbing your house, i’m assuming you are either A.)not home B.)asleep and/or C.)not much of a threat.
racking a shotgun and announcing your presence only heightens the situation. now you have potentially turned his crime from a simply burglary into possible murder. you have also given up the element of surprise, location, AND the fact that you are armed.
and why the hell was a 20ga shotgun suggested to you by a supposed ‘NRA instructor’
the only conclusion i can draw from that is you are such a goddamn soyboy the instructor felt you lacked the appropriate amount of balls to handle a 12guage.
good day.[/quote]
Agreed Fully.
To the original poster, on the topic of rifles for target shooting: I would say go with an AR type, but i recently picked up a Springfield M1A Socom, and put in in a sage EBR Stock. It is of course more expensive to shoot than the AR, b/c it is a .308 but god damn is it fun.
Here is a link to what she looks like (not my personal version) http://www.m1arifles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/sage-ebr-stock.jpg
The serbu shorty would be a great home self defense shotgun, if you can hold on to it.
[quote]JPCleary wrote:
HolyMacaroni wrote:
StevenF wrote:
My first gun was an XD45 service model. I am somewhat of a beginner shooter and I swear for the life of me I could not hit shit at 10 yards with that thing. Then I sold it and bought a kimber custom II and my 10 yard shots are much more accurate on average. Maybe I just suck at shooting but I really like the heavier weight when shooting a .45. Smaller calibers such as .40 and 9mm are better suited for those polymer frame pistols IMHO.
honestly, i think a lot of people that go out and buy guns and shoot them recreationally never get formal training on how to shoot it from different positions and have inherent faults with their shooting technique resulting in poor groupings.
spending some time with people who know what they are talking about can make HUGE differences.
and that doesn’t mean everyone who’s a cop or in the army knows what the hell they are doing when it comes to guns. i’m talking about people who shoot guns A LOT.
Yeah…I was gonna make this same point. There is a Jeff Cooper quote that firearms instructors love that is relevant…
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
~Jeff Cooper
So many people buy a gun for home defense, or worse CCW, and then never take the time to get training…figuring the gun will do the trick should they ever need it.
When purchasing a gun, the cost for initial training should be figured in. Check out Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Rogers Shooting School, Blackwater, etc. And then after that, join a local gun club that participates in IDPA…International Defensive Pistol Association. These are perishable skills…you have to get trained and keep training. And on that note…another quote…
“Every time I teach a class, I discover I don’t know something.”
~Clint Smith, Director of Thunder Ranch[/quote]
What you and others are saying is true (about learning and practicing) but every time I read one of these threads it invokes visions of city boys who after watching Die Hard or The Matrix one too many times and after a years subscription to Urban Warfare and Assault magazine run out and buy the latest and greatest glock pistol or 223 assault rifle. Then buy a couple of boxes of ammo go to the $10.00 admission city gun range shoot at 25 yards maybe 50 spraying a man silhouette a few times and then in their minds are qualified experts for dispensing their ‘hard earned’ wisdom on firearms and how to kill. Mentally masturbating about the day a big bad wolf is going to break into their home or the zombie apocalypse will happen and they will shoot their way to hero-dom. As their glorious killing tool gathers dust under the bed after twenty or forty rounds max went thru it.
I admit I say this as a bit of a snob and as a purist when it comes to the shooting art. I grew up as many small town boys do shooting guns at a young age. Killing rabbits with a pellet gun at age five, then a 22 single shot at age seven, and shotgun at ten. By twelve I was shooting centerfire rifles and by fourteen hunting and taking big game. I hunted small game with a 22 pistol since a young teen and now approaching forty have taken enough rabbits to feed a small army with a pistol taking many at fifty yards regularly, with a Ruger MKII or Ruger Single Six 22 pistols. I’ve hunted and taken game with a 357 Magnum and shot and qualified expert in the military with a 45 besides shooting various other pistol calibers. I hunt muzzleloader, centerfire rifle, pistol, and have taken game animals from point blank range out beyond three hundred yards with scopes and iron sights.
My point being I shoot, I love to shoot, I study ballistics, bullet performance and selection and terminal ballistics, I am either shooting at targets or shooting in hunting conditions often every few weeks pretty much. Now, I gotta say this has made me a pretty decent shooter within my frame of shooting situations 25 to a 100 yards with pistol and 25 to 300 plus yards with a scoped rifle. I’m not a long range shooter 500 to 1000 yard shooting because to become proficient in that art requires more free time and money then I currently posses.
Again, the reason I say this is because there is so much more when it comes to being a highly skilled and proficient shooter then reading about the latest whiz bang high capacity auto pistol dressing up like a reserve member of your local SWAT team and popping a few rounds off at the local city 25 yard shooting range after other twenty something apt. dwellers on a forum gave you the breakdown on all the cool features that would make you the best home defense apocalypse warrior on your block.
A weapon, any weapon whether a single shot 22 rifle, a 20ga shotgun, a 38 revolver, or the new XD 1000 Supa Illuminatti 9mm by 223 by 10 ga shotgun street sweeper room blaster grenade launcher, is better to have if in the one in a million chance happens and some crackhead loser is breaking into your home. The only time you may actually need the XD 1000 Supa Illuminatti is if those savage killers who took out Al Pacino in Scarface decide you’re next on their Christmas list.
And if you can’t hit a person in a vital kill zone head, heart/lungs at a bedrooms length with any of the weapons above you’d be better served putting rocks on your nightstand and throwing them at the zombie killer because you’d have a better chance of protecting yourself with those. If I couldn’t sink at least 5 rounds into the head neck upper chest region of a person with ill intent with my 22 pistol at a rooms length I’d be better off putting the barrel to my own head and squeezing of a round.
That’s all.
D
[quote]StevenF wrote:
My first gun was an XD45 service model. I am somewhat of a beginner shooter and I swear for the life of me I could not hit shit at 10 yards with that thing. Then I sold it and bought a kimber custom II and my 10 yard shots are much more accurate on average. Maybe I just suck at shooting but I really like the heavier weight when shooting a .45. Smaller calibers such as .40 and 9mm are better suited for those polymer frame pistols IMHO. [/quote]
Agreed. The metal frame just makes the balance that much better in .45.
Anyone have any recommendations for inside-the-waist holsters for 1911s?
Also, mags. I’m going to need a bunch of mags.