Yep.
My one English professor called out the whole room once and said “There are only 3 people here who opened their book of styles. The rest of you failed.”.
Then we moved on.
By mid term, that course had about 1/3 of its original attendants because they couldn’t be arsed to read the criteria and format their documents correctly.
And not a single thought was ever given to them again.
This structure of formal learning is much bigger and unyielding than any one person.
I had an UD history professor who possessed a burning hatred for the passive voice. He would literally take a point off for every instance of passive voice he or the TAs found on a paper.
His class helped me improve my writing skill more than any other professor and courses I took. I wish I had him as a professor earlier in my UD years.
no I do not. I understand being nitpicky about grammar mistakes. I do not understand why an extra space matters if that space will be gone anyways if I were just allowed to move onto actually building the survey
100% he’s one of the nicest ppl I’ve ever worked with/for
I really really do not understand the obsession with formatting. If it’s readable and labeled, why does it matter if there’s an extra space here or there?
I feel this is different though.
He’s taking points off for something that affects the quality of the writing itself.
It’s not like he’s taking points off for the margins on a handwritten piece when the paper that’s turned in is going to be typed
I will do my best to explain so long as you promise to do your best to understand.
When you submit a paper/memo/manuscript, etc to someone in a position of authority, the potential (and HOPEFUL) action is that they appreciate it so much that THEY submit it to someone in a position of authority to THEM. And it keeps on moving up the chain until it reaches the upper echelon of your hierarchy. “The boss”, as it were.
Your person in a position of authority does NOT want to submit a document that is poorly formatted, because it reflects poorly on the person submitting it. It shows a lack of attention to detail and distracts from the material IN the document. In turn, your person in a position of authority does NOT want to be given a chore by someone in a position below them. It’s not THEIR job to format the document: that is YOUR job as the document submitter.
When you submit a document that is improperly formatted, the message you convey is “I don’t think this is good enough to be seen by anyone else”. In turn, if you don’t think it’s worth it, why would they?
When I submit things to my next level supervisor, I always do so under the assumption it will be seen by someone AT least two levels up. That has benefitted me immensely when an e-mail I sent to someone that I assumed was just going to be between us got sent “up the chain”.
It’s not nitpicky. It the expectation that you will take your work seriously and present it as such.
You’re at a highly respected university. Have some pride. Use spell check.
I’m only telling you this because you do seem quite intelligent and capable. If you were just some chump I really wouldn’t bother.
(Also, peaked at Pwn’s post before hitting submit, but same gist.)
Edit: did not want to leave this hang-
You don’t get to do the cool kid stuff until you you are past the basics.
Everything else is like this too.
It’s like the kids in my one welding class that would present these just straight up poop welds. “That doesn’t pass muster, do better.”
Them “Idgaf. I’m going into underwater welding anyways.”.
Me: 
Nope.
This is totally real, fyi.
My manager one day asked me to analyze an issue and present solutions. I did so. Turns out that he got this order from the CEO, and my manager decided to send my analysis document straight to the CEO. My manager didn’t need to add anything because I did exactly what he asked- analyze the issue and present solutions in a clear and concise manner.
It got me noticed by the CEO, who gave me several raises because he (correctly) noted that I didn’t get paid enough.
On a related note to what T3Pwnisher mentioned. I did a lot of proofreading for my brother. He used to make a lot of common vocab errors, like confuse “than” and “then”, and make typos that he didn’t bother correcting. I always went through the document and fixed those first. THEN I went back and actually read what he wrote.
People find typos and basic grammar errors tremendously distracting, especially if the word doc literally tells you they exist in small red and blue lines.
Honestly Anna, I’m willing to bet that your advisor is starting to get really anal with your writing because he’s a bit of a grammar Nazi and is upset at you for not taking advantage of the fact that modern word processors can capture basic grammar/vocab errors and give you little red and blue lines telling you that it’s wrong and provide suggestions in your earlier drafts. I don’t have enough context to fully understand what the issue now is, but if he noticed the extra spaces in spite of there being no little blue lines, then he’s trying really hard to find issues, and there must have been something to get him to that point.
100% this.
Perception matters. When I see an Action plan or document that is well formatted, appropriately presented and shows obvious care, I take it much more seriously than one that’s just used the basic template and made it “readable”, even if the content is identical. Perception is important and the impression that care has been taken on a job is vital. If you can’t get the basics right, what faith can I have that you’ll get the complex stuff right?
Biomechanically that should be ( well is) impossible if you are pulling sumo with correct technique. If your finding it harder to lockout than you do getting it off the floor then most likely your hips are shooting up to fast, which makes it easier to break the floor but puts your hips too far back ( common if you are used to conventional deads).
To clarify, I got rid of the red/blue lines BEFORE showing it to him the first time. I then used Grammarly to get rid of more typos.
@T3hPwnisher @SkyzykS Okay that makes sense. I really try my best.
I do what he says and am grateful for this training as well as his decision to keep working with me, but it’s still extremely frustrating to me. As with other things, I use this log as a place to rant
He told me that it was his PhD advisor who taught him to be extremely extremely nitpicky. He actually has a reputation in the department for this.
Attention to detail comes naturally for my little bro and my friend, not so much for me.
@dagill2 I honestly can’t argue with you on that one. I really really wish it weren’t true though
Not much to add but in a class last spring…I think American Political Thought II? (so nothing like what you’re doing but still, cool stuff) I had to write a few papers and on of them, one of the professor’s comments was something about my writing being pretty good. I usually proofread my papers 2-3 times, and then I have my grandma who taught English for a couple decades take a look at it as well. By then there’s not much she has to say about it - I’ve caught all the typos and checked to see if it reads well in my mind, but she’ll usually have a couple small recommendations that I end up thinking sound better so I make the changes (usually just a small change of wording in this sentence or that one, not like she’s rewriting the paper). If I didn’t have her, I’d go to a classmate who I know to be a decent writer, or the writing area of the tutoring center to have someone look it over.
Anyway, the point is, my professor appreciated that when he read my papers, he could just use his energy to think about what I was actually saying. He’s made a point in class before papers are due to mention that every time he has to stop to mark a misspelling or missed comma, he is no longer thinking about how compelling your arguments are or how interesting of points you’ve made. He’s correcting typos, and that’s no fun.
Moral of the story: it pays to turn something in knowing that you did your best to make sure it is as presentable as possible. Or something like that.
This extends into speaking as well. Verbal pauses like “um” “uh” “ya know” “like”, etc, that we use to fill empty space in speaking can become incredibly distracting, to the point that, when I catch someone having a “pet phrase”, I’ll stop listening to what they have to say and make a game of just tallying up how many times they use it.
And like writing, it can be improved on as well. Regular practice and attention to detail help a ton.
I used to tell my students to call someone that loves them okay enough to listen to them orate their entire text. Reading a piece aloud to another human is a surefire way to catch some errors.
And also to give them a treat the next time they saw them as a thank you.
I find it hard to judge the tone in @SkyzykS example, among others, but I read it as if your professors were somewhat disdainful? If yes, do you feel as if that was warranted?
It is one of an earnest plea. If it wasn’t coming from a place of care I wouldn’t share it on here, with her. I’m sure she’s already having enough problems with her work not being very well received and that academic achievement is actually WAAAAAY more challenging than previously expected. She doesn’t need some guy on the internet lobbing tomatoes from the cheap seats.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn’t mean your tone towards her. I meant how you yourself, and your classmates, were treated.
I can read a few of the replies here in two ways. Yours might be the best example. Either the student body were genuinely disrespectful towards the educator by not having followed clear instructions or the professor was overly zealous in who failed/not.
I’ll continue, to make it clear that I don’t believe any of you to be lobbing tomatoes, this’d be okay (here, where I’m from and the way academia has expressed itself “here”)
if and only if not using the passive voice is part of the grading criteria.
I’m very guilty of this.
There’s also a perception piece here as well, precise speakers make batter impressions.
Quite the opposite.
I’ve been extremely lucky and school has, on average, been quite a bit easier than expected
My professors and advisors have also been very pleased with my work. Even this prof seems to see something in me or else he would have given up a long time ago.
I complain here about maths and game theory but im not in any way required to take these classes either for graduation or future research. I do it because it’s interesting to me… and because my Econ maths friends do it.
I can tell you from both experience and personal conversations I’ve had with some of the professors at this regions universities- They cut quickly and impersonally. They don’t have time to care about who you think you are. They have 3-400 other students who are all dotting their i’s and crossing their t’s. There are thousands of kids per year that pour through that funnel every year. Many with “great potential” and very few who will actually turn that potential into action.
Ok. I stand corrected then.
So what’s at the core of your behavior with believing that your TA or RA is being nitpicky then?
I’m not sure what you mean.
I think he’s nit picky because he is bothered by an extra space that couldn’t matter any less because the document is just a placeholder. It’s like getting graded on the formatting of a brainstorming sheet
I’m also not the only one who thinks he’s nit picky. Every grad student I’ve talked to who’s worked with him on something say this. Even one of my profs immediately knew who I was talking about when I complained
Then see Pwn, mine, Magic, etc. posts on presenting your work correctly.
I’m going to have to write a model for this at some point…