Androgel or Alpha Male?

Pharma / TRT
21

I’m concerned with the Vitex herb included in this formula. If you look up vitex and it’s history of uses (which goes back 2500 years) it is used for females with female problems. The information I read states it controls estrogen levels but acts on the pitutary gland to increase progestin levels. One source I read, states that vital should be avoided by men unless you want “little milk breast.”

Convince me how vitex is useful for a man? Hard muscle is always my goal, and I’m meeting it BTW.

Mikefromms

22

[quote]Thundersnow wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
Thundersnow wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
Check these out too.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=899116

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1135091

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1147892

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=824365

Thanks for the links. After reading that article on Testosterone it looks like it would be a good idea to start with Alpha Male and see how it goes?

As posted above, my Testosterone level is 357 and the normal reference range for this lab is 170 to 780.

I have NEVER used Testosterone supplementation before so since the article recommendends for people with normal Testosterone levels to try Alpha Male I thought I’d see how that goes. If I don’t notice anything then I could try Androgel or something else, right?

Thanks again for all your feedback

Couple more questions.

Your age?

Free Testosterone level?

I would start with Alpha Male. Give it a go full blast, and I would give it 8 weeks. Then get retested and PLEASE post your numbers up, alot of people here are curious.

A side note to all of this, I am going to be doing the exact same thing. I FINALLY am going in to the doctor to get blood work done(way overdue). Regardless of what my numbers come back as, Im going on Alpha Male and getting retested.

I don’t know about my Free T-level. Do they check that automatically when your T-level is checked? If so, I’ll have to check with my doctor.

I’m 35 but look 25! I noticed that there is not much traffic in the over 35 section so posting here is better since there is more activity. Plus I’m not OVER 35 yet!

[/quote]

Yes, your Free Level should have been checked along with your total. Your free test is more important than your total test. Call them up today where you had your blood work done and ask them for your results.

23

[quote]RoidEnthusiast wrote:
I read that men produce between 2.5-11mg of test per day in thier bodies. I also read 4-7mg which is probably a more realistic range representing the norm. Do the math on that and you’ll see 500mg per week of steroids is about 10x normal healthy male testosterone production. How that breaks down to ng/dl I can only imagine, it’s probably insanely high. Point is, people take these doses for a reason. If you take too little you won’t gain crap.

It’s a waste of a cycle, money and gear. Androgel wasn’t designed with making gains in mind. It’s purpose is to get deficient men up to healthy levels. It’s not going to be like taking roids. As far as Alpha Male, saying this is probably going to get my post deleted again, but really, the little bit of difference in T-levels (if any)it would make is only going to be a fraction of what androgel would do. In other words, you won’t notice a thing.

If you want gains do a steroid cycle. If you’re deficient and just simply want healthy levels,(realizing it isn’t going to put 40 pounds on your bench or an inch on your arms) get some kind of HRT- like androgel. [/quote]

Roidsenthusiast,
You definitely know your shit from the other posts Ive read, but I think your being a bit short sided here, and I agree with what dedicated says. If youve been driving a porche(AAS), of course hopping into a BMW(Alpha) isn’t gonna seem like that sweet of a ride. But for alot of people pooping around in beat up ford, a BMW aint so bad.

And yes, I agree, there isn’t a whole lot of data to support Alpha(hard numbers, test results). But I hope alot of people here can change that(myself included. I will be getting tested and comparing results and posting them up soon.

You must remember getting HRT isn’t like going to the local corner store and buying beer(like it may be for you) Most docs are hesitant to give it out unless you have a totall test under 300(lab ref 300-1200). Alot of people here don’t(or can’t risk) going black market. Nor can they afford it.

Also remember this is america. There are tons of us without health insurance. Try paying for andro without that.

24

[quote]mikefromms wrote:
I’m concerned with the Vitex herb included in this formula. If you look up vitex and it’s history of uses (which goes back 2500 years) it is used for females with female problems. The information I read states it controls estrogen levels but acts on the pitutary gland to increase progestin levels. One source I read, states that vital should be avoided by men unless you want “little milk breast.”

Convince me how vitex is useful for a man? Hard muscle is always my goal, and I’m meeting it BTW.

Mikefromms[/quote]

It affects men in a whole different way, when taken in the right dose. It decreases prolactin and keeps estrogen in check, while causing a rise in test.

25

I believe there was a website where you can order androgel online, after you sent in proper documents showing you had low enough test.

Anyone got a link?

26

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
For guys who wish to stay natural and want to keep their production at optimum levels especially as they age Alpha Male is an excellent choice. There are numerous users who are beyond satisfied with what it delivers. Far too many for it to be written off as something that will offer you no benefit.

D [/quote]

I was completely natural and had never done a cycle/steroids of any kind when I tried Alpha Male this summer. My blood tests showed no increase in total T or free T. I felt great taking it, so I would have bet that my T levels were up and I was pretty surprised by the blood test results.

27

[quote]t-sama wrote:
Dedicated wrote:
For guys who wish to stay natural and want to keep their production at optimum levels especially as they age Alpha Male is an excellent choice. There are numerous users who are beyond satisfied with what it delivers. Far too many for it to be written off as something that will offer you no benefit.

D

I was completely natural and had never done a cycle/steroids of any kind when I tried Alpha Male this summer. My blood tests showed no increase in total T or free T. I felt great taking it, so I would have bet that my T levels were up and I was pretty surprised by the blood test results.

[/quote]

So, what is your final determination? One one hand you felt better while on it. On the other your test showed no change. Keep in mind there are variables in the test that can affect it.

D

28

Tried posting on this yesterday and it didn’t get through for some reason.

Androgel sucks moose cock, testim sucks balls. IMO, both are shitty products but testim is the better of the 2.

I haven’t tried a legal test booster since prohormones, so I can’t help you there. I will say, 5mg of androgel=worthelss.

Stick with food and creatine, or just needle it.

Monopoly

29

[quote]Dedicated wrote:

So, what is your final determination? One one hand you felt better while on it. On the other your test showed no change. Keep in mind there are variables in the test that can affect it.

D [/quote]

Subjectively, I “felt” the Alpha Male was doing something. When I went for my blood test, I would have guessed my test levels were probably 200 points higher. Objectively, whatever Alpha Male accomplished, it did not raise my test levels. This is not a knock on Biotest - I still use Biotest BCAA, ZMA and creatine.

To the OP - In my case, HRT was appropriate, but I wanted to try all the natural options, if at all possible. After trying to bring my test levels up with Alpha Male, I went with HRT. There really is no comparing Alpha Male and HRT (for me doctor prescribed testosterone cypionate). It was one of the best life-changing “health” decisions I have ever made, but that is the subject for a different thread.

Hope this helps.

30

Maybe I missed this, but Androgel will shut you down. Your body will respond to the exogenous test by reducing what you make on your own. Its meant to replace T that is not there any longer.

Try Alpha or TRIBEX, AND add the Androgel if you can get it. But realize that your body will try to shut down its own production. The Alpha may keep your own production going, so IMO it is required, if you do the gel.

31

Just because it says so on the bottle doesn’t mean Alpha Male will raise your testosterone. How exactly is Alpha Male supposed to bypass your feedback loop? is it going to block receptors in your hypothalmus like a SERM will? no. We all know your natural T production is based on a balance of secretions, and if you pull some shit on your body, it will respond by down or up regulating something to get back to where it wants you to be.

You can eat all the ZMA you want, you can take all the herbs, tree bark and tribulus you want. It’s not going to trick your axis into overproducing. Supplementing to overcome nutritional deficiencies is a different story- but if you’re healthy and eating right, like you sure as hell should be if you are lifting, nothing short of a pharmaceutical is going to make a squirt of difference.

You can play with SERM’s and/or anti-e’s, get HRT, or go full boat and use roids. Nothing else is going to trick your more than likely, genetically and age imposed hormonal limits.

32

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Maybe I missed this, but Androgel will shut you down. Your body will respond to the exogenous test by reducing what you make on your own. Its meant to replace T that is not there any longer.

Try Alpha Male or TRIBEX, AND add the Androgel if you can get it. But realize that your body will try to shut down its own production. The Alpha Male may keep your own production going, so IMO it is required, if you do the gel.[/quote]

Once your on HRT, there is no need to keep your own production going.

33

At a test level of 357, you should give Alpha Male a shot. As other pointed out you will not get steroid like gains or sides.

I use Alpha Male into my PCT, it’s actually more expensive then SERMS/AI’s but I feel it helps. I will have my t-levels checked in about a month so if I remeber I will post them.

I was like the original poster w/ T levels in the 300’s, after a cycle or 2 and some OTC products my levels last year were 660.

34

Thanks for all the replies, guys.

Since I’m in the normal T-level range and still relatively young I would consider Androgel or Alpha Male but I can’t get roids anyway and even if I could get them I don’t want to START with that.

I have been lifting for years so I’m not a newcomer.

Since I already have pretty good muscle mass (much better than the average person) if I took Androgel or Alpha Male for a month and then stopped it I wouldn’t lose my muscle mass as long as I kept working out, right?

I talked to someone who has been on Androgel and he told me that 5mg Androgel is a very small amount of Testosterone and he notices no bad effects but only positives. He also said if you already have good muscle mass and have already been lifting for a long time and you take Androgel and then stop it you will not lose your gains AS LONG AS you keep lifting weights regulary.

So, what do you all think?

35

[quote]Thundersnow wrote:

I talked to someone who has been on Androgel and he told me that 5mg Androgel is a very small amount of Testosterone and he notices no bad effects but only positives. He also said if you already have good muscle mass and have already been lifting for a long time and you take Androgel and then stop it you will not lose your gains AS LONG AS you keep lifting weights regulary.

So, what do you all think?

[/quote]

Thunder,
Once you start HRT(androgel) you on it for life. Your bodies natural testosterone production shuts down. Its pointless to cycle androgel. Its not strong enough to produce steroid like gains in a short period of time. And it will shut down your bodies natural production of testosterone.

Your in a place where you have to make a difficult decision. I would try an Alpha Male/ZMA/REZ-V cycle for 8 weeks and get retested and see how you look. If you dont test out in the mid 500 range or higher, HRT may be the next logical option.

Im in the same boat as you. I go in for testing here soon.

36

[quote]Thundersnow wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, guys.

Since I’m in the normal T-level range and still relatively young I would consider Androgel or Alpha Male but I can’t get roids anyway and even if I could get them I don’t want to START with that.

I have been lifting for years so I’m not a newcomer.

Since I already have pretty good muscle mass (much better than the average person) if I took Androgel or Alpha Male for a month and then stopped it I wouldn’t lose my muscle mass as long as I kept working out, right?

I talked to someone who has been on Androgel and he told me that 5mg Androgel is a very small amount of Testosterone and he notices no bad effects but only positives. He also said if you already have good muscle mass and have already been lifting for a long time and you take Androgel and then stop it you will not lose your gains AS LONG AS you keep lifting weights regulary.

So, what do you all think?

[/quote]

My first reply to this board…

Hey Thundersnow, I’m pretty much in the same boat as you although I’m 43 and look 30! HA! We test around the same level also, I’m maybe a bit lower. I tried Androgel for 3 months religeously. I thought that while I noticed a great improvement in mode, and definately an improvement in muscle mass (and yes, I also have been lifting for years), it was a royal pain in the ass to use. You can’t wash it off for 8 hours, and ideally you want it on for 24 until you shower and reapply. My schedule just didn’t work well so there was never a good time to apply it. I have the luxury of working from my home office around 4 days a week, and my gym is the next room over, so I typically split my workouts every day - morning workout and afternoon workout. Then late afternoon shower, Androgel went on, sleep, and repeat.

Anyhow, I asked the endo doc and now I’m using T-Cyp. Oh yeah, I was learly of sticking myself with that seemingly 2" needle, but it’s once a week - and for convenience sake alone I like it. As for results - I can honestly say that a daily dose of Androgel kept things on an even level, while on T-Cyp shots I definately see a boost the first few days, and by day 5 I’m dying for that next show. Ok, maybe not that bad, but I’m going in for a check and blood work in 4 weeks so I don’t know if I’m on the right dose yet anyhow. I’m going to ask if I can shot every 5 days…I think that’ll solve the problem (if any).

My .02…

37

What do you mean that once you start HRT (Androgel or injectible steroids)you’re on it for LIFE?!?!?!?

What about all the people who have taken a lot of injectible steroids but then quit and done bodybuilding or powerlifting NATURALLY?? I know that Arnold Schwarzenneger did Steroids and then he quit but kept lifting and eventhough he is nothing compared to what he used to be he is still strong.

But there are many other people who quit steroids and keep lifting so they are not on steroids for LIFE!

So, please address the above.

38

[quote]Thundersnow wrote:
What do you mean that once you start HRT (Androgel or injectible steroids)you’re on it for LIFE?!?!?!?

What about all the people who have taken a lot of injectible steroids but then quit and done bodybuilding or powerlifting NATURALLY?? I know that Arnold Schwarzenneger did Steroids and then he quit but kept lifting and eventhough he is nothing compared to what he used to be he is still strong.

But there are many other people who quit steroids and keep lifting so they are not on steroids for LIFE!

So, please address the above.[/quote]

It’s not for life. What you have to realize however is that even though Androgel SUCKS it will supress you. This means when you stop taking it your test levels will go even lower than they were before.

I firmly believe that even after using just androgel your levels will never go back as high as they were naturally before you took it.

Monopoly

39

[quote]
It’s not for life. What you have to realize however is that even though Androgel SUCKS it will supress you. This means when you stop taking it your test levels will go even lower than they were before.

I firmly believe that even after using just androgel your levels will never go back as high as they were naturally before you took it.
Monopoly[/quote]

I can’t see how androgel would be different from other gear in that regard. (HCG throughout the cycle would be quite helpful in keeping the testes viable.) I know that that is only one link in the chain. And from an HRT point of view, one is taking action because the baseline levels are too low and one is giving up on the natural mechanisms.

40

[quote]Thundersnow wrote:
What do you mean that once you start HRT (Androgel or injectible steroids)you’re on it for LIFE?!?!?!?

What about all the people who have taken a lot of injectible steroids but then quit and done bodybuilding or powerlifting NATURALLY?? I know that Arnold Schwarzenneger did Steroids and then he quit but kept lifting and eventhough he is nothing compared to what he used to be he is still strong.

But there are many other people who quit steroids and keep lifting so they are not on steroids for LIFE!

So, please address the above.[/quote]

Generally when bodybuilders run steroid cycles they do so for a period of time like eight to twelve weeks or longer. After they use PCT to bring their bodies natural production back up to par. Also, these cycles are meant to brings androgen levels far above what the body normally produces hence the beyond ordinary muscle and strength gains.

HRT, is meant for those who suffer from low test production. You are running a mild dose like 100mg which will put you into the normal to normal high range for test levels. It may help with slight muscle gains, but nothing like a 500 or more milligram dose of test.

However, it’s still enough to suppress your bodies own production of test. That’s why generally people who go on HRT don’t cycle it like a bodybuilder, but remain on it for potentially the rest of their life as staying on straight for a year or more especially if your production is already minimized may permanently hinder the feed back loop and keep production low.

D