KSman
I read that my own nateral T level will fall as I use the Androgel, could this in fact be starting with me just 2 weeks in to TRT
Possible. Transdermals achieve serum level end-points quite fast. You could have a labs for a med check soon. Any of that scheduled? Only way to know is to get the lab work.
Do you shower off or sweat off the agel? If so, it is not for you.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Possible. Transdermals achieve serum level end-points quite fast. You could have a labs for a med check soon. Any of that scheduled? Only way to know is to get the lab work.
Do you shower off or sweat off the agel? If so, it is not for you.[/quote]
did T level test today already. results next week.
I am going to increase my androgel usage starting tommorrow
KSman
I have been reading all over this forum about T levels, gels and shots.
I started on 5 mg of androgel and felt great, depression gone.
Started to slide back into depression, up to 7,5 mg and depression lifting.
My E level was 81 [10-50 range] , is it possible my E level is rising with
the gel usage and the high E will counteract some of the benefit of the gel?
How critical is my LH level and how would I control it>>?
BTW I test BW test after 3 week of the gels, have not got results yet matt
[quote]matthewt wrote:
KSman
I have been reading all over this forum about T levels, gels and shots.
I started on 5 mg of androgel and felt great, depression gone.
Started to slide back into depression, up to 7,5 mg and depression lifting.
My E level was 81 [10-50 range] , is it possible my E level is rising with
the gel usage and the high E will counteract some of the benefit of the gel?
How critical is my LH level and how would I control it>>?
BTW I test BW test after 3 week of the gels, have not got results yet matt [/quote]
this is also why I learned so much here…I also was on androgel…2,5,7,then 10 grams…nothing happen at all…I started TEST ENANTHATE 100 mg’s a week and doing alot better…the strength is the thing i was most shocked with…
my last test was 998 and estradiol was 28…to the pro’s how these levels ?? good luck to you matt…as KS said…some respond…some do not…
[quote]fightu35 wrote:
matthewt wrote:
KSman
I have been reading all over this forum about T levels, gels and shots.
I started on 5 mg of androgel and felt great, depression gone.
Started to slide back into depression, up to 7,5 mg and depression lifting.
My E level was 81 [10-50 range] , is it possible my E level is rising with
the gel usage and the high E will counteract some of the benefit of the gel?
How critical is my LH level and how would I control it>>?
BTW I test BW test after 3 week of the gels, have not got results yet matt
this is also why I learned so much here…I also was on androgel…2,5,7,then 10 grams…nothing happen at all…I started TEST ENANTHATE 100 mg’s a week and doing alot better…the strength is the thing i was most shocked with…
my last test was 998 and estradiol was 28…to the pro’s how these levels ?? good luck to you matt…as KS said…some respond…some do not…[/quote]
how do manage to keep E at 28?
do you take anything else ,Hcg?
[quote]matthewt wrote:
fightu35 wrote:
matthewt wrote:
KSman
I have been reading all over this forum about T levels, gels and shots.
I started on 5 mg of androgel and felt great, depression gone.
Started to slide back into depression, up to 7,5 mg and depression lifting.
My E level was 81 [10-50 range] , is it possible my E level is rising with
the gel usage and the high E will counteract some of the benefit of the gel?
How critical is my LH level and how would I control it>>?
BTW I test BW test after 3 week of the gels, have not got results yet matt
this is also why I learned so much here…I also was on androgel…2,5,7,then 10 grams…nothing happen at all…I started TEST ENANTHATE 100 mg’s a week and doing alot better…the strength is the thing i was most shocked with…
my last test was 998 and estradiol was 28…to the pro’s how these levels ?? good luck to you matt…as KS said…some respond…some do not…
how do manage to keep E at 28?
do you take anything else ,Hcg?
[/quote]
right now just arimidex…no HCG
KSman and others
I started T gel 3 1/2 weeks ago, after a few days, depression lifted what no other ssri could. My pre T gel blood work showed low T, very hi E, hi cortisol. amognst other things. I was told by one doc I was hypogonadic, and have adrenal fatigue
After 3 weks on 5 g or 4 pumps of gel, depression treid to creep in, I got blood work done at that level [ no results yet]. I upped to 6 pumps and I am feeling good once again.
I have seen you all write about this over and over, was my own T slowing down so I need the increased gel? what can I expect going forward?
Also, I read somewhere on this forum or another about this…
I have had this for a while, even pre T gel, at 3 am almost every morning I wake with a mild clamy feeling and a little sweat, I get a glass of water , take off t shirt and go back to sleep. I remember reading about this, I cant recall if it was a cortisol thing or a tT things, any recall this discussion?
Once someone starts T injections assuming E is controlled, how long until you feel better and ED problems decrease? Just started on injections and not feeling anything yet.
I’ve read about problems like this. People try the gel and get a response. They lose the response up the dose. They lose response again and up the dose. After that the think the gel is crap and switch to shots. What needed to be done from the beginning was offsetting conversion to E2 with an aromatase inhibitor. The gel converts heavily to DHT and E2. That needs to be offset from the beginning.
If you do that you’ll see way better T numbers. I was only on 50mg of gel and I had an excellent response that went away in about two weeks. Not knowing what I was doing at the time I started taking 6-OXO the last week I planned to use the gel, it was a therapeutic trial, and after a few days my depression totally cleared and sexual function improved again.
Later I decided to switch to the shots and I never got a great result from start to finish. By then I was educated enough to run Arimidex with T but I never got the same result as the gel. I would be super man for three days and then about the same as before treatment. That was on 200mg of T a week! My opinion is the gel does work well for most and I’m one of them. I also think if you’re secondary hypo if you just administer T you’ll end up with the same body chemistry at different levels by just administering T.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Some do not absorb well. Those who are hypothyroid are famous for that. Low thyroid can mean low energy and weight gain.
Some absorb good in the start, then the skin changes from the effects of the T (gets better) and that for some means the end of absorption.
TDs also lead to more T–>E aromatization than injections. For some the E increases, the increased E suppresses the HPTA and the natural T production fails. If the TD was absorbed well, then the HPTA would be completely shut down.
You doctor is a jerk, a steroid phobic republican or misinformed. I don’t know what is worse. He was not going to do anything right. You may need to go out of town.
Ask the local pharmacies what doctors are prescribing testosterone ethanate or cypionate. Explain that you have T levels down through the floor and are seeking a doctor who will deal with your situation. You could show them your lab results!
Many guys struggle to get proper care. It is sad. Some get the testosterone and can’t get their doctors to prescribe arimidex/anastrozole to control E2 levels. Many of those are driven to underground supplies. You need to get your E2 levels checked. Do not test for total estrogen. The LabCorp serum E2 (0-53) works well. You may be very high. You will feel best with E2 in the low twenties.
Test for total T, free T, TSH, free T3, free T4, PSA.
If all of that is working right, you may not want to have shrinking testes.
Do you know anyone who has a Sam’s Club business membership? You can get a sub card under theirs. The primary card holder will never see what you purchase. 10ml 200mg/ml test cypionate Watsons costs $42.50, 10,000iu HCG APP costs $16.25, 50iu insulin syringes are $12.42 per 100 at Sam’s or Walmart.
You can inject T cyp with an insulin syringe into the vastus lateralis. Injecting every week or every two weeks is completely wrong, even though that is mainstream practice. That creates T spikes that lead to E spikes and increased SHBG that reduces your %FT. I inject 28mg EOD. My HCG is 250iu SC EOD.
Elevated E is a main feature of metabolic disorder, the E reduces LH and that means less T. I think that all men in that state would profit from arimidex. Metabolic disorder is also pre-diabetes. Your CBC will cover that. Some might test for fasting insulin.
You can get your own lab work done via LEF.org, for about 1/2 of what the doctors and clinics will bill for. The ‘male panel’ will do the TT, FT, E2. Add thyroid labs to that.
A trial dose of hCG is 1mg/week. At $9/mg that gets costly. There are non-drug sources of anastrozole that many turn to, even if they have a prescription. With your weight, you might want to scale up the 1mg/wk by your weight against a 160lb reference. Depending on your E2 lab results, you may need more again. I would not exceed 2mg/wk.
Do not get onto injected T without the anastrozole. That would make your E2 worse! If you get lab work and have a cooperative doctor, you could take some anastrozole for relief before you get on T. You should still push to get onto the AI (aromatase inhibitor) from the very start and front load with 1mg/day for 2 or three days then start you dosing after that. The non-drug anastrozole comes in a liquid, 1mg/ml (60 ml $50.00), which allows for good dosing options other that breaking up a tiny expensive pill.
Get the script for arimidex, and take the prescribed amount with the liquid. Do not tell the doctor about what you are doing. Follow his changes based on blood work. Then you can make changes later based on the lab work yourself. You doctor will not understand dosing changes of .4mg/wk as he thinks your are using pills. Your doctor does not want to know about this.
With the elevated E2 that you probably have, you might have some female fat deposition patterns and perhaps some degree of gynecomastia. If any signs of gyno, all the more info to present to a doctor in support of the AI. TRT without AI would then make things real bad.
You need to learn all about this stuff, because chances are your doctor will not explain things.
Go to that other doc and get good copies of ALL OF your lab results. Always obtain good copies and never loose them. Have them in hand when you see another doctor. Have an androgel prescription label to document what you have been taking.
Tell the doc that TD test has been useless, your lab results will substantiate that, and ask to be put on 100mg test cyp per week, 250iu HCG EOD [I can supply research material to support that], and arimidex to get E2 under control with a target level in the lower 20’s - the E2 levels of a young lean male. You need all three items to get optimal results. Without the AI, I would expect quite poor results.
If you take 100mg test cyp per week, you are under control of how you do that. Injecting EOD or twice a week will be better for you. You do not need to inject into the gluts with 1.5" needles!
Cut and paste this into a file for future reference.
I will work with your via PMs through the doctor things and details of getting started.
PM me and tell me where you are located and I will try to help you located a TRT or age management doctor.[/quote]
KSman
LEF.org is very expensive for test. zrt and diagnos-techs inc are less
Saliva testing is certainly cheaper, but I’ve never heard of anyone in the medical community taking it seriously. I’d love to see real studies demonstrating the accuracy either way. Lots of people have opinions, but I’ve yet to see hard data.
LEF panels seem to be good values. All the more if you purchase during the April-May sale. Male panel is 299, was 198 during the sale.
zrt labs offer blood spot test vs saliva
View Cart
Male Blood Profile I (Blood) $ 189.00
Overall assessment of male vitality, performance, and prostate health. Includes: E2, T, SHBG, PSA, DS, C.
Add to Cart View Cart
Male Blood Profile II (Blood) $ 349.00
Overall assessment of male vitality, performance, prostate health, and complete thyroid assessment. Includes: Male Blood Profile I (E2, T, SHBG, PSA, DS, C1) + Complete Thyroid Profile (TSH, fT3, fT4,
189 for the first test seems good, your opinion?
I’ve been in the TRT quandry for over a year. Had all the typical symptoms. Initial Test was high 200’s. Started out on Test Cyp injections, but PCP would only go 2cc 1x every 3 weeks. Was a rollercoaster.
Finally got a referral for an Endo. Changed me to Androgel. Started 1 5g pack a day. 3 weeks later Test was low 300’s. Went to 2 packs. 3 weeks later, Test was 1400’s! Dropped me back down to 1 for 3 weeks, Last test was 138! Now he wants me on 3 packs a day!
What the hell!
I’ve suggested Hcg, Arimidex, etc…Endo says no.
Brother I feel for ya!
[quote]mrbeefy wrote:
I’ve been in the TRT quandry for over a year. Had all the typical symptoms. Initial Test was high 200’s. Started out on Test Cyp injections, but PCP would only go 2cc 1x every 3 weeks. Was a rollercoaster.
Finally got a referral for an Endo. Changed me to Androgel. Started 1 5g pack a day. 3 weeks later Test was low 300’s. Went to 2 packs. 3 weeks later, Test was 1400’s! Dropped me back down to 1 for 3 weeks, Last test was 138! Now he wants me on 3 packs a day!
What the hell!
I’ve suggested Hcg, Arimidex, etc…Endo says no.
Brother I feel for ya![/quote]
There is no way that androgel got you up to 1400 ,no way, your test was tainted by T on your finger or skin… your doc should have known this. You are at 138 because your own T is shutting down.
You need to read more on the forum. Your doc sux. I read that it is hard to get above 500 or so on andogel.
I myself am on androgel for 5 weeks and I am happy so far. Depression i s gone. Strength up a tad too.
[quote]matthewt wrote:
KSman wrote:
Do you know anyone who has a Sam’s Club business membership? You can get a sub card under theirs. The primary card holder will never see what you purchase. 10ml 200mg/ml test cypionate Watsons costs $42.50, 10,000iu HCG APP costs $16.25, 50iu insulin syringes are $12.42 per 100 at Sam’s or Walmart.
You can inject T cyp with an insulin syringe into the vastus lateralis.
my friend has sams club membership…you can buy stuff there, ? you need an RX correct…
you can inject cyp with an insulin syringe ?? I thought you could not…or is that just enathate ? (which I have)
hello guys…I just talk to my doc…he said my LH & FSH was low…and said something about other tests I could take,he did not say…but he also said somethnig about an MRI?
does anyone know what an MRI could do with TEST LEVELS ???
my last 2 test results are
TOTAL TEST 937 754
FREE TEST 37.85 24.30 (OUT OF RANGE) ??
% FREE TEST 4.04 3.31
TSH 1.96
FSH <0.3
LH <0.07
ESTRADIO SERUM 28 ?
ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT…
matthewt,
how can a test be “tainted” by test on my finger?
A nurse drew my blood and they did the test right there in the lab. I didn’t touch anything.
I thought 1400 was outrageuous too, but the Endo said that he has seen, on rare occasion, where levels have shot up, and then bottomed out again. I wish my test levels could be 1400!
He now wants me to do 3 packs of Androgel a day. (7.5 each), and come back for more blood tests in 3 weeks.
I’m getting a little tired of this up and down, guinea pig stuff. I just want them settled in a decent mid range so I canstart feeling back to normal again.
Depression trying to creep back in, been feeling great…
Started on the gel doing great, 18 days iinto it depression returned, upped to 6 pumps depression left, felt great, now its 17 days after last upped dose, fewel depression coming on strong
I have had hi E issues 81, on a 10-50 scale, I think as I take Androgel my body makes more E which has a depressive effect on me.
I did blood test last week, doctor in vac till august 11, we have not really discussion an AI, dont think he will do it