And We Were All Overreacting Over BLM?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
548

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t doubt that police brutality exists. That simply wouldn’t be possible anywhere in the world and it’s expected since there are assholes in every job and each case should be treated as a separate one.

It’s about, like what you’re saying, the rate and frequency which it happens.

Again, I don’t know anything about the US, but in other countries it’s an entire systemic problem that has to be rooted out from the top down. And it has been done in some places.

So, assuming this isn’t the case in the US, it’s probably why politicians don’t have the balls to issue orders to maintain order.

And the media sucks. Fuck them.

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549

Your impression would be correct lol. And that’s a function of how our society was set up to function in many respects, and in others a result of past legal precedent or police corruption being killed off, etc.

By and large we are very proud of that impression. Of course in situations like the recent riots and others, it does protect people who really need a good ass whooping to stop being total dumbasses and learn to function in our society. Take the bad with the good and all that.

And I TOTALLY get where you are coming from. Your perspective and questions make total sense based on your experiences and where you live. They’re excellent.

Honestly you’re about as close to understanding it as can be considering how much complete misinformation and just plain bad information is circulating in your area. I mean this in the sense that you have a much better handle than the people around you talking about it every day. Not in the negative sense.

I can imagine the disconnect for the people around you. We are in fact “cowboys” in the sense that a large portion of our national heros either practiced civil disobedience or full on gave the finger to other authorities so… There’s a strong history of disobedience that just simply makes no sense to many people on your side of the world.

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550

No question. This part of the media reporting and the political response to these things absolutely drives me up a wall (contrary to pat thinking the response to BLM is a low priority to me).

A lie repeated often enough, loudly enough, to enough people eventually becomes the truth as they perceive it. Unfortunately it doesn’t matter whether it is a deliberate lie or it is just dramatized reporting for the sake of getting viewers. Effect is the same.

Yep, definitely not the case here - at least in terms of how countries in SE Asia and the surrounding region would classify brutality.

There are a lot of legitimate problems that I think do have cultural or systemic roots. However most of these vary by city, state, rural/urban, etc. So except in the most general sense that police officers all have the same job and deal with assholes and so have similar biases, there’s nothing systemic about these problems. It’s no different from all computer code devs having the same gripes, complains, and biases based on the fact that they code for a living, no matter what segment they’re in.

The problem with law enforcement is that they’re under a microscope (both for legitimate and non-legit reasons), and that the screwups have a lot more impact on people’s lives and futures. In that sense yes some systemic problems exist, if that makes sense.

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551

The right won’t even accept electoral results… talk about an alternate reality.

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552

Civil disobedience has a time and place provided the injustices are rooted in objective fact and reality. The shit these losers are rioting over now are neither. Police are held accountable. Them not getting the outcome they want; despite having ZERO knowledge of law, SCOTUS rulings like Tennessee vs Garner, glossing over circumstances / context, etc… =/= no accountability.

We can all get behind certain cases just on the basis of principle. However, these loons act like these things happen in a vacuum. It’s not police holding back positive progress it’s the left. We have and continue to bend to their lunacy. It’s disheartening.

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553

Right ? I mean it’s not like this election was fishy af, eh, mate ? Doubt you’re up to speed on all the objectively fishy goings on. Might need to pick a different flex.

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554

Seems you’ve missed 4 straight years of liberal lunacy and not accepting results. Millions of pussy hat wearing psychotics took to the streets shrieking “NoT mY pReSiDeNt.” Just for starters.

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555

Yes, relocating voter booths, dismantling the postal service, poll watching, repeatedly blocking tabled legislation in effort to make elections more secure and refusing to concede after a legitimate election is fishy.

I actually happen to know someone who worked counting ballots… no, the process wasn’t fishy, it was a painfully meticulous, rigorously scrutinised process that ensured the validity of ballots casted.

There is no objective evidence of widespread voter fraud, hence why all of Trumps pathetic, baseless lawsuits have been shot down. If voter fraud was so widespread, why didn’t the president do anything to try prevent this supposed miscarriage of justice? He has been making baseless complaints of voter fraud since 2016, apparently he didn’t win the popular vote the first time around due to falsified ballots :rofl:

I’m not looking for a fight, agree to disagree. I have problems with the new era of left wing politics, particuarly the political correctness fiasco, nanny state regulatory practices and perceived intolerance towards other legitimate viewpoints. Then again I also believe the right are directly responsible for the mass incarceration epidemic within America.

As a blanket statement the right have also opposed abortion, same sex marriage, banning conversion therapy, climate change goals, banning fracking, coal mining etc. The right fight for civil liberties that fit their narrative (i.e I should be able to own a gun, a deadly device that has the potential to mow down a handful of people in quick succession) but when it comes to something trivial like smoking a joint I ought to be thrown in jail. It’s lunacy…

I don’t agree with a large chunk of right wing policy and I have evidence to back my opinion referring to certain unsuccessful policies. This doesn’t make me a lunatic. You talk about the left wing as if our demographic consists of violent extremists. You’re referring to a stark minority.

To clarify, this kind of behaviour is stupid as fuck and I do condemn this. I wasn’t happy when Trump won… but he did win the first time round.

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556

I agree completely. And it is disheartening. I don’t think it will last forever but that’s hardly comforting to the good officers being doxxed and left to the wolves.

Agree they don’t know rulings and things don’t happen in a vacuim.

So, this is just something I think personally, but I think a lot of people are not helped by the media - not like that needs repeating. Reporting tragic events like the baby in California (I think?) getting a flashbang to the face are obviously terrible and also going to make people upset. But you also almost never hear the aftermath on the news… So officers are held accountable but except for certain events (like Trayvon Martin) the media doesn’t cover the conclusion.

So a lot of people come away with a false sense that officers are rarely held accountable. This is to me the biggest problem, but I’m not sure there’s a solution.

Then you have issues where there are problems–qualified immunity comes to mind. Not the existence of it, but the way in which I see it being executed (admittedly I am only looking from the outside, and probably not fully informed). There are other areas of course.

557

The right is not my demographic. I’m very centrist for the most part but the reality is in America the left are far more nefarious and openly seek to destroy western civilization. Pendulums swing my friend. In this day and age it’s the left that needs a serious chin check by any reasonable standards.

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558

Trayvon was killed by a civilian but people still lump him in with those killed by police. Qualified immunity ONLY goes so far. Its not a free pass. Many things have to add up to fall under that umbrella. Plenty of police are fired, indicted, and imprisoned IN SPITE OF the qualified immunity parachute. Dumb shits seem to think we only need say “I was in fear for my life” and that’s the end of it. Not even close. And that’s another issue the left will destroy and further cause police to just say fuck it… Not worth the risk / reward.

559

I don’t quite agree, but I can understand your viewpoint

I’d argue western societal norms are extensively challenged within numerous middle eastern countries, theocracies etc. These countries would categorically fall under “far right” wing rule.

560

Yep, I am aware of both facts, which is kind of my point… Not as many are as should be. The Trayvon example was just to illustrate the point about media coverage, not because a cop was actually involved.

561

Which western civilization are you talking about? The one in the 1700s, 1800s, 1900s, or more recent? All have become significantly more progressive. Which is your favorite? When did the progressives do enough to improve society that they should have just stopped?

562

<5 min essay talking classical liberalism

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563

Liberal means different things to people in the same country, let alone across the globe haha. I try to say “progressive” when talking about the american left side of the political spectrum.

Also, maybe it’s cause I’m an engineer, but no fucking way that is a <4minute read if you actually want to fully understand it haha. Damn.

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564

I forgot to add my own spin that the tenets of classical liberalism are undergirded by the concept of the Golden Rule:
Go enjoy loud music but don’t annoy the neighborhood,
Plant all the crops you want, but don’t screw your neighbor out his land to make him your underpaid employee, etc.

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565

Didnt want to scare young people off with non soundbite…hehe

566

Thats the thing. I live my life, and my personal beliefs align completely with classical liberalism. And i expect my friend group and the people i respect to generally follow the same principles. Simply put, “live and let live, and don’t be an asshole”.

HOWEVER, there are just too many stupid, selfish, assholes in our society that will not or cannot follow the golden rule. This pandemic has been a perfect example of people having every opportunity to do some real simple stuff to help keep their neighbors safe and mitigate economic damage… but their misguided sense of freedom (w/o responsiblity) has led to the government having to step in and protect the vulnerable. As a country we have proven we cannot handle unfettered freedom. Its clear.

Same thing with taxes and social programs… I would love to believe that without taxes people would just donate the same amount of money to charities and the less fortunate… but the reality is people would just buy a newer phone, an upgraded car and some brand name clothes.

Without progressive movements legislating change over the years, think where we would be.

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567

In that respect conservatives were progressives at certain points in time, no ?

Also - equal rights =/= getting trannies into female bathrooms / sports

Let’s exercise some intellectual consistency and honesty here.

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