[quote]mcook123 wrote:
Why exactly does everyone have a problem with Biotest marketing their products? You do realize this is what EVERY product manufacturer does, right? I
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You realize what we’re getting at right? This isn’t the first time this has happened, and it’s blatantly obvious that it will be available for the general public, yet they’re trying to lead on otherwise.
Maybe it’s the skeptic in me, but when TC says “very soon” and someone else says it may never be released, kind of obvious what will eventually happen.
[quote]mcook123 wrote:
Why exactly does everyone have a problem with Biotest marketing their products? You do realize this is what EVERY product manufacturer does, right? If you do not believe the marketing hype of Biotest or the contributors to T-Nation, which you shouldn’t ever believe any companies’ marketing, simply go to medline.com (or pubmed.com) and type the ingredient in question into the search engine (sometimes it helps lower the search parameters if you also type bodybuilding, exercise, athletic performance or whatever effect the bottle claims it will have) and spend some time doing your own research.
This will take some time, but after you realize just how many products are useless or the dosages you have to use you will save a bunch of money. Just for laughs, check out some of Tipton’s studies on BCAA usage and peri-workout nutrition. It is your responsibility as a consumer to research a product before buying it. All the company needs to do is market it within legal guidlines (which are pretty loose).
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From my experience, Biotest in general and the mods have been most respectful and informative with their replies to some of my posts that they had to edit/remove. I can’t say I blame when they remove or edit portions of a post that comes accross as being a little too anti-Biotest. They do have a business to run after all. Even though they modify some posts (rarely and only under certain instances) they are extremely patient with people on these threads and they know they can stand behind their products.
But if you think Biotest uses too much hype (or whatever else some other people have claimed), then I think you have a fundamental flaw in your understanding of how the supplement market works. Biotest doesn’t hype or advertise products anywhere near the level that other supplement companies do just to make money. They research them and put out products that they feel they will be able to stand behind.
I do mcook123 about
Edit… I dunno wtf I started typing at the end… I think I was saying that I understand mcook’s justified skepticism of any and all supplement companies. Biotest (as he acknowledges is “a reputable company” though.
[quote]G87 wrote:
I’m with you guys. I’m a regular and happy Biotest customer. But when I see authors implying that for the best workout ever, you need to load up on 7 scoops of Biotest product (Nate Green) and eat some Finibars on top of that, it’s like… “Come the huck ON.” As Ponce said, anyone who thinks I’m gonna consume all this stuff does not realise how expensive it is in such large quantities. Worse yet, if Biotest promotes such mass consumption of supplements, I’d expect people to turn to bulk providers of supplement staples. Hope all that made sense.[/quote]
I’m glad you brought that up. Nate’s post was ridiculous (and recognize that I actually like Nate), but it’s exactly like I was reading an old Weider magazine.
I’m not sure that Biotest should be able to use the “But everyone else does it” argument - they apparently aspire to be above that league.
The real genius behind this strategy is that Biotest can say their hands are clean. But like MODOK mentioned before - it’s insulting to our intelligence.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
mcook123 wrote:
Why exactly does everyone have a problem with Biotest marketing their products? You do realize this is what EVERY product manufacturer does, right? I
You realize what we’re getting at right? This isn’t the first time this has happened, and it’s blatantly obvious that it will be available for the general public, yet they’re trying to lead on otherwise.
Maybe it’s the skeptic in me, but when TC says “very soon” and someone else says it may never be released, kind of obvious what will eventually happen.[/quote]
I fully understand what you are getting at. Anaconda will almost certainly be released, and it will almost certainly be way overpriced, and lots of people will almost certainly buy it without checking third party studies on the ingredients (no offense intended to Biotest’s research team, but you are employed by Biotest and therefore your results will always be biased), again medline.com/pubmed.com are great resources, and there will almost certainly be many forum posts from people who think it is the missing link of weight lifting.
I kind of rambled on there, but the main point of this post is to say that yes Biotest’s marketing of this product and several others is definitely more than a little sleazy, but people seem to lose sight of the fact that Biotest is a SUPPLEMENT COMPANY. Sleazy marketing and lazy science are part of the game. For those that will think of posting about the high virtues of Biotest, take a look at the references for the last 4 Biotest releases and take note of how many of them are over 7 years old or done on old/diseased people or on animals (results from tests on animals are notorious for not carrying over to humans).
Yes, Biotest has several great products. And yes, Biotest is better about using sound science and decent marketing (Check out MT ads) tactics than other supplement companies, but that is like being the tallest person in Munchkin Village. Always take any marketing machine with a grain of salt and do your own research on any new product (even from Biotest) before spending your hard-earned money on it (I personally spend several hours researching any supplement). Finally, it is highly unlikely any supplement that will live up to it’s marketing.
[quote]Burst wrote:
G87 wrote:
I’m with you guys. I’m a regular and happy Biotest customer. But when I see authors implying that for the best workout ever, you need to load up on 7 scoops of Biotest product (Nate Green) and eat some Finibars on top of that, it’s like… “Come the huck ON.” As Ponce said, anyone who thinks I’m gonna consume all this stuff does not realise how expensive it is in such large quantities. Worse yet, if Biotest promotes such mass consumption of supplements, I’d expect people to turn to bulk providers of supplement staples. Hope all that made sense.
I’m glad you brought that up. Nate’s post was ridiculous (and recognize that I actually like Nate), but it’s exactly like I was reading an old Weider magazine.
I’m not sure that Biotest should be able to use the “But everyone else does it” argument - they apparently aspire to be above that league.
The real genius behind this strategy is that Biotest can say their hands are clean. But like MODOK mentioned before - it’s insulting to our intelligence. [/quote]
OK, how is Nate’s, or anyone else’s, enthusiasm toward a particular supplement protocol insulting to your intelligence?
As a supplement geek myself, I like to push the limits and see what can be done with various products. Obviously, it wouldn’t make any sense to do this if I wasn’t experienced with how my body responds to nutritional variations, but I am. And, others on this site are as well.
Besides, not everyone should follow the protocols that Tim and Christian are using with people like Nate. First off, they are experimental and obviously very expensive. And, in most cases, they are not appropriate for beginners. Because of this, these high-dose experiments are certainly not for the masses. However, there are plenty of people on the site who are interested in them.
Mod Brian, I just don’t get why you join the arguement. In the end, its a lot of idle speculation by a group of devoted T-Nation junkies (i suspect, no assumptions) who just like gettin Biotest products.
Generally, people like conspiracy theories. problem is, it takes too much plannin to get a great conspiracy to work. and plans never work out the way theyre supposed too. you know what, anaconda may not be released, or maybe they are hypin it, none of us know.
all i know, Biotest has some sweet products i really like (fish oil, leucine, BCAAS) that i can get anywhere. but i happen to trust Biotest, whereas i dont trust cvs. Biotest also tries to push the envelope (Z12, GPC, Receptormax) and give us real quality unique products. so im no going to begrudge them a little hypin, this isnt bodybuilding.com thank god. sometimes the forums feel like that, but if you really get frustrated, just dont respond and let the peons have their fun.
It`s already available in the states as a sexual enhancement supplement. It will not be available in Canada at all because it contains yohimbe. It does however contain a form of testosterone and L-arginine. I obtained this info from supplements canada . com
As a side note, a lot of times when I click on a link on Tmuscle, It won’t come up. It doesn’t happen on any other sites. Anyone else have this problem?[/quote]
[quote]Kanada wrote:
Mod Brian, I just don’t get why you join the arguement. In the end, its a lot of idle speculation by a group of devoted T-Nation junkies (i suspect, no assumptions) who just like gettin Biotest products. [/quote]
You’re right. It’s just that knowing what really goes on behind the scenes causes me to lose patience with the conspiracy theorists after a while.
The fact is that any of the products discussed would have been more profitable for Biotest had they been released far earlier. It doesn’t make sense for a company to delay releasing a product for a prolonged time in order to hype it up. Those are potential sales they will never get back.
[quote]baldsamson wrote:
It`s already available in the states as a sexual enhancement supplement. It will not be available in Canada at all because it contains yohimbe. It does however contain a form of testosterone and L-arginine. I obtained this info from supplements canada . com[/quote]
huh? It isn’t being sold in the US, since Biotest hasn’t released it yet.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
guillaume76 wrote:
Hello,
What about Curcumin ? Is it about to be released ? Curcuma/Turmeric is a very cheap food, I doubt it would keep customers from buying it, and health benefits are stunning.
Is it planned for this year ?
Regards,
Guillaume.
I’m not involved in that project. I didn’t know about it until that picture was posted on the forum here.
As general commentary, I’ve used a bioavailability-enhanced curcumin product from another company. They have two levels, so to speak, of it: I used their high-end one.
It was what I would call mid-priced, not cheap.
I suspect that the Biotest product has better bioavailability enhancement simply because I never noticed the described effects from the product I used. I took it on account of the science showing health benefits. Now it could be just individual variation there: my experience hardly proves a point.
I’m also familiar with the bioavailability-enhancing methods we’ve used on other things, though I don’t know that this uses the same, and it’s not amenable to a cheap product.
So I’d expect it to be mid-priced. Just as guesswork.
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Me guesses that the Circumin product you used was from LEF.
Me guesses that the Circumin product you used was from LEF.
The old one had piperine in it if I recall ;)[/quote]
I don’t feel it’s professional of me to gratuitously knock other companies, which the above could mistakenly be interpreted as being from my guess that the Biotest product will probably be better. Thus the vagueness.
The intent wasn’t to knock it, especially as I think the one in question is a good product – I plunked down considerable cold hard cash for it over time, after all.
