I had a fantastic carb up this weekend
no carb induced coma and i still ate whatever i wanted
however:
I’ve noticed MON TUES and WED until about 2pm each day my piss has been a bright yellow. I drink about 5-6L of water a day and on carb ups i’d say i was hitting 7 or 8
any ideas?
thanks
Ben
The anabolic diet is actually a Ketogenic Diet - it’s a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (using the carb up to provide the glycogen to train hard). During the week, it may cross over to a ketosis diet.
hence the metallic taste. No problem!
"Although ketogenic diets are useful for fat loss, while simultaneously sparing muscle loss, they have one significant drawback: they cannot sustain high intensity exercise. Activities like weight training can only use carbohydrates as an energy source, ketones and free fatty acids (FFA) cannot be used. Therefore the lack of carbohydrates on a ketogenic diet will eventually lead to decreased performance in the weight room, which may result in muscle loss, and carbohydrates must be introduced into a ketogenic diet without affecting ketosis.
Probably the most common way to do this is to do a weekend carb-load phase, where ketosis is abolished. During this time period, assuming training volume was sufficient to deplete muscle glycogen (see last article), the body can rapidly increase muscle glycogen levels to normal or supra-normal levels prior to beginning the next ketogenic cycle.
Anyone who has read both “The Anabolic Diet” (AD) by Dr. Mauro DiPasquale and “Bodyopus” (BO) by Dan Duchaine should realize that there are two diametrically different approaches to the carb-up. In the AD, the carb-up is quite unstructured. The goal is basically to eat a lot of carbs, and stop eating when you feel yourself starting to get bloated (which is roughly indicative of full muscle glycogen stores, where more carbohydrate will spill over to fat).
In BO, an extremely meticulous carb-up schedule was provided, breaking down the 48 hour carb-up into individual meals, eaten every 2.5 hours. The approach which this article will provide is somewhere in the middle. This article will discuss a variety of topics which pertain to the carb-load phase of the CKD, including duration, carbohydrate intake, quality of carbohydrate intake, fat gain, and others."
[quote]benjafflolz wrote:
I had a fantastic carb up this weekend
no carb induced coma and i still ate whatever i wanted
however:
I’ve noticed MON TUES and WED until about 2pm each day my piss has been a bright yellow. I drink about 5-6L of water a day and on carb ups i’d say i was hitting 7 or 8
any ideas?
thanks
Ben[/quote]
It’s just another sign of ketosis (yellow, gold, amber pee)! haha
I have lots of vitamins (vit B, multivit, zinc, magnesium, omega 3, vit c) - so my piss is always yellow.
5 -6 liters of water? Wow, that’s a lot…
HOW MUCH WATER does everyone here drink on the AD?
I have maybe 3 liters a day - cant seem to force down much more than that ( myweight: 198 lbs)
[quote]muscleinkorea wrote:
[quote]Seouldier wrote:
Up to 3500+ calories on the AD coming from 1600 within a 4 week period to start a mass gaining phase (500 Kcals added a week)
Things I have noticed:
Hey dude,
The metallic taste is a sign of ketosis (as is sweet breath smell)
Still loosing wight - fat, or any muscle?[/quote]
Im not 100% sure what i’m losing. Strength has gone up but my arms and shoulders look about the same. My legs are the only thing that has improved as far as aesthetics and size goes but I have also been squatting everyday.
I was thinking thats what the metallic taste on my tongue is. I was getting it when I was under 2000 calories but it stopped when i started upping the calories and just started again a at the beginning of this week.
[quote]Seouldier wrote:
[quote]muscleinkorea wrote:
[quote]Seouldier wrote:
Up to 3500+ calories on the AD coming from 1600 within a 4 week period to start a mass gaining phase (500 Kcals added a week)
Things I have noticed:
Hey dude,
The metallic taste is a sign of ketosis (as is sweet breath smell)
Still loosing wight - fat, or any muscle?[/quote]
Im not 100% sure what i’m losing. Strength has gone up but my arms and shoulders look about the same. My legs are the only thing that has improved as far as aesthetics and size goes but I have also been squatting everyday.
I was thinking thats what the metallic taste on my tongue is. I was getting it when I was under 2000 calories but it stopped when i started upping the calories and just started again a at the beginning of this week.
[/quote]
That’s irritating about - losing weight. Maybe you need more rest between intense sessions (or move to training each muscle group just once a day)?
Im in no rush really, I still wanna give it a little time. within the last 2 weeks alone i’ve gone up in weight and reps on everything. If I don’t see too much of a difference by the end of the month im gonna jack up the calories to 4200 and drop a HIT session, if that doesnt do the trick Im gonna add a carb up mid mid week for my second leg session. And if that doesnt work then I guess low carb is not a good way for me to add muscle mass.
And just FYI, I was reading about how the body produces fuel during weight training (or all anaerobic work) and Glucose is not the primary option ATP (Adenosine triphosphate) is the only energy source for the body. We have some stored in our muscles at all times this stores last about 10-15 seconds for intense work. Next in line is Glycogen and glucose to make ATP because the time it spends in the Krebs cycle is fast these can last optimally for about 2-3 minutes. Last is fat, fats route to becoming ATP is not nearly as rapid as glucose but it can be done.
Under normal circumstances (non carb restricted diet) we would go through ATP stored in the muscle first, then glucose that converts to ATP, then our fatty acid chains that convert to ATP. However, those of us on the AD can only do this on the weekends and if we are lucky our glycogen stores can stretch until late wednesday or mid thursday. By Thursday or Friday, we become slower at producing ATP, the only thing that this requires is a little more rest in between sets to allow your ATP stores to catch up and not to let the sets go to much longer than 20 seconds. When will you know when your ATP stores are back??? Just lift when your ready is the best answer.
[quote]Seouldier wrote:
Im in no rush really, I still wanna give it a little time. within the last 2 weeks alone i’ve gone up in weight and reps on everything. If I don’t see too much of a difference by the end of the month im gonna jack up the calories to 4200 and drop a HIT session, if that doesnt do the trick Im gonna add a carb up mid mid week for my second leg session. And if that doesnt work then I guess low carb is not a good way for me to add muscle mass.
And just FYI, I was reading about how the body produces fuel during weight training (or all anaerobic work) and Glucose is not the primary option ATP (Adenosine triphosphate) is the only energy source for the body. We have some stored in our muscles at all times this stores last about 10-15 seconds for intense work. Next in line is Glycogen and glucose to make ATP because the time it spends in the Krebs cycle is fast these can last optimally for about 2-3 minutes. Last is fat, fats route to becoming ATP is not nearly as rapid as glucose but it can be done.
Under normal circumstances (non carb restricted diet) we would go through ATP stored in the muscle first, then glucose that converts to ATP, then our fatty acid chains that convert to ATP. However, those of us on the AD can only do this on the weekends and if we are lucky our glycogen stores can stretch until late wednesday or mid thursday. By Thursday or Friday, we become slower at producing ATP, the only thing that this requires is a little more rest in between sets to allow your ATP stores to catch up and not to let the sets go to much longer than 20 seconds. When will you know when your ATP stores are back??? Just lift when your ready is the best answer.
[/quote]
Interesting stuff, thanks for that. I trained hard today, but my muscle fatigued the quickest they ever have. I didn’t have decreased strength, I was still feeling strong, but it took less reps to reach failure. I’m looking forward to resting like a sloth this weekend.
I’ve switched my training around to put the heavy training as early in the week as possible: Mon - back and short compound bicep training, Tues - chest and compound tris, wed - legs, thurs - shoulders and shrugs, Fri - arms (isolation), forearms, calves. I was doing HIT everyday, but I think it’s too much. I will do it just 3 times a week.
So how many HIT sessions do you do a week? And how many intervals per session? If your looking to bulk up, I would not do any cardio at all. It will just use up what valuable glycogen stores you have - save that for heavy lifting. If you really want to do HIT still, then only do it toward the end of the week… just a thought
I hope you get the gains you are looking for! Apart from ditching all cardio, maybe also drop the number of reps per set to a maximum of 7, aiming ideally at 5 or 6 reps per set. Very low reps have been good to me! haha
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
[quote]muscleinkorea wrote:
[quote]vjoe wrote:
Guys, my first carb up takes place this weekend, but I haven’t “hit the wall” like some people say and felt like shit. At least that I have noticed.
I did feel a decline in my focus while training during the first 7-8 days, but I have been getting better this week (my phaseshift was 14 days).
Shall I be worried?
My carbs are incredibly low: 100g whey, 400g broccoli and 50g flax seeds.[/quote]
Don’t be worried at all, I didn’t hit a wall during my induction phase, in fact, my energy levels increased as soon as I started the AD diet.
Enjoy the carb up - starting the carb up on Saturday afternoon and finishing on Sunday afternoon is what I like to do…[/quote]
x2
i was on a primarily low carb diet (with carb ups) before i started AD and had no crash at all.
were you on relatively low carbs before the induction started? that may explain it[/quote]
Sort of. I was in the Warrior Diet for 3 months. The fasting periods probably prepared my body for this.
Tomorrow is going to be a huge feast. No krav maga in the afternoon, which means I can start the carb feed at breakfast. I have loads of bananas, oats and rice prepared already eheh.
I know my body can take quite a lot of carbs from previous carb feeds (I did no carbs Warrior Diet for a while), but I am going to try to keep it as clean as possible.
[quote]muscleinkorea wrote:
HOW MUCH WATER does everyone here drink on the AD?
I have maybe 3 liters a day - cant seem to force down much more than that ( myweight: 198 lbs)[/quote]
I’m not sure. I take a Dannon bottled water and I refill it about 3 to 4 times a day during the week. I also pulse two servings of MAG-10 between the morning and late afternoon.
[quote]muscleinkorea wrote:
HOW MUCH WATER does everyone here drink on the AD?
I have maybe 3 liters a day - cant seem to force down much more than that ( myweight: 198 lbs)[/quote]
I get around 3/4 to a whole gallon a day… So around 3 liters… I don’t think I could drink much more either.
J. K
[quote]muscleinkorea wrote:
[quote]Seouldier wrote:
Im in no rush really, I still wanna give it a little time. within the last 2 weeks alone i’ve gone up in weight and reps on everything. If I don’t see too much of a difference by the end of the month im gonna jack up the calories to 4200 and drop a HIT session, if that doesnt do the trick Im gonna add a carb up mid mid week for my second leg session. And if that doesnt work then I guess low carb is not a good way for me to add muscle mass.
And just FYI, I was reading about how the body produces fuel during weight training (or all anaerobic work) and Glucose is not the primary option ATP (Adenosine triphosphate) is the only energy source for the body. We have some stored in our muscles at all times this stores last about 10-15 seconds for intense work. Next in line is Glycogen and glucose to make ATP because the time it spends in the Krebs cycle is fast these can last optimally for about 2-3 minutes. Last is fat, fats route to becoming ATP is not nearly as rapid as glucose but it can be done.
Under normal circumstances (non carb restricted diet) we would go through ATP stored in the muscle first, then glucose that converts to ATP, then our fatty acid chains that convert to ATP. However, those of us on the AD can only do this on the weekends and if we are lucky our glycogen stores can stretch until late wednesday or mid thursday. By Thursday or Friday, we become slower at producing ATP, the only thing that this requires is a little more rest in between sets to allow your ATP stores to catch up and not to let the sets go to much longer than 20 seconds. When will you know when your ATP stores are back??? Just lift when your ready is the best answer.
[/quote]
Interesting stuff, thanks for that. I trained hard today, but my muscle fatigued the quickest they ever have. I didn’t have decreased strength, I was still feeling strong, but it took less reps to reach failure. I’m looking forward to resting like a sloth this weekend.
I’ve switched my training around to put the heavy training as early in the week as possible: Mon - back and short compound bicep training, Tues - chest and compound tris, wed - legs, thurs - shoulders and shrugs, Fri - arms (isolation), forearms, calves. I was doing HIT everyday, but I think it’s too much. I will do it just 3 times a week.
So how many HIT sessions do you do a week? And how many intervals per session? If your looking to bulk up, I would not do any cardio at all. It will just use up what valuable glycogen stores you have - save that for heavy lifting. If you really want to do HIT still, then only do it toward the end of the week… just a thought
I hope you get the gains you are looking for! Apart from ditching all cardio, maybe also drop the number of reps per set to a maximum of 7, aiming ideally at 5 or 6 reps per set. Very low reps have been good to me! haha
[/quote]
I do stair sprints once a week: sorunt 2 floors walk down X 20
Jump rope everyday: 20 Sec hard rest 40 X 10
Sprints once a week: 100M X 10
Jump training once a week: vertical jumps and broad jumps to failure X 5 eaxh
Also NEPA walking *to and from school the subway gym and such- about 2 hours of walking a day
I value my conditioning a lot, I am still involved in a lot of athletic endeavors and dont wanna lose my conditioning. The only muscle group I ever go over 5 reps is back.
Smart flip on the program by the way it makes a huge difference.
PS. Can you post the Macros for samgyupsal I was thinking about tossing it in my diet
I do 10 sets of hill sprints on my off days and 15min of HIIT on the bike PWO (currently cutting). So far it’s been great but will update as the diet progresses longer.
Hi,
One piece of Korean sangyupsa (which is on average 100 grams before cooked) = 330 calories, 28 grams fat, 17 grams protein…
Quick one - do you drink apple sider vinegar? If so, how much? Everyday? I got some, it’s potent, but I’m not sure how much to drink. I checked, it has zero carbs, so fine to use during the week too…
Read a few articles on appel cider vinegar, might have more carbs than the label says (in korean). SO maybe only good for on the weekend, before meals.
Seouldier - your cardio is intense! good work! But I think it’s going to be hard to bulk if you keep that up… Gotta find the balance I guess
Here is some good info I read on bulking with the AD
'The most substantial difference with using the Ketogenic diet for bulking opposed to cutting is the carbohydrates. During the bulking phase I recommend a 36-hour carb-load, this is to allow a substantial influx of carbs into the muscle but not to over do it. The next major difference is that you are to have 1000 calories worth of carbs, with a good amount of whey protein, approximately two-hours before your Wednesday workout. The main goal of this carb-spike is to allow the person to have a substantial amount of muscle glycogen to maintain workout intensity.
Now as far as the carb-up goes, you can either start with very high glycemic carbs. Then taper down to lower glycemic carbs. The other route is to eat what you want. For a hard-core bulking routine this is what most people will do. If you are going to follow the “eat whatever you can get your hands on” route definitely try to choose the lower fat route. This means if you are going to get donuts, try to find the brand that’s lower in fat. But if you know you can drop the fat off at a relatively fast pace, then go ahead and get Nesquick and Krispy Kreme and have a fun time!
Reasons For This Plan
All right, now I’ll discuss my rational behind this radical plan. Since you will be carb-loading Friday night into Sunday morning you most definitely want to hit most of your body on Sunday when your muscle glycogen is overstocked. This is the main reason for the carb up (bulking or dieting). The next weight workout will be performed on Wednesday, and I advocate a 1000 calorie influx of carbohydrates (preferably simple) before that. The rational backing this up is that by Wednesday your muscle glycogen should be fairly low, this influx of carbs will restock your glycogen stores substantially and allow you to perform at an optimal level in the gym. The next weight workout will be performed on Friday night before the carb-up. On this workout you should be performing a heavy full body workout, mainly to fully deplete glycogen stores and causes an anabolic stimulus when you start exploding carbs into your muscles. ’
Thats crazy I was just thinking of doing something like that today walking home from the gym. I wasnt thinking along the lines of 1000 calories of carbs though that would put me to sleep in the middle of my training session. I wanted to do the carb up after my workout to blow insulin up. I see the logic behind both but wouldnt it be more beneficial to have half before, some during, and the rest after maybe 100g/50g/100g?
[quote]Seouldier wrote:
Thats crazy I was just thinking of doing something like that today walking home from the gym. I wasnt thinking along the lines of 1000 calories of carbs though that would put me to sleep in the middle of my training session. I wanted to do the carb up after my workout to blow insulin up. I see the logic behind both but wouldnt it be more beneficial to have half before, some during, and the rest after maybe 100g/50g/100g?[/quote]
Yeah - I agree with you on that. Maybe have some slow release/low GI carbs an hour or two before gym (like sweet potato), and then some fast release carbs after gym (maybe a banana or a piece of fruit). I also thought 1000 calories of carbs would be too hectic. haha
[quote]MODOK wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
[quote]MODOK wrote:
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
As far as workouts goes whats the best way to take advantage of AD? Right now I do full body M&W, Hard cardio T & TH and Friday max power upperbody, SA Max power lower body… Im thinking about reversing my program to make the most of the weekend carbs…
Hey Modok… Since saturated fats is good and nitrates are bad does that mean I should nix bacon? Its tasty and a good source of fat…Im not sure what Ron read but in Dr Di’s book I dont remember much about Prosessed meats. It mostly said eat as much faty red meat as possible. For reasons of good fat high protien. With this diet theres not much room for lean meats or low protien stuff…
Its 2 days after my 1st carb up and I feel pretty rock hard…I think this diet gives a good pump the ketosis durring the week probably is what sheds the fat…I think Dr Di says eat what you want but Im sure the diet would be optimized if carbs were clean as opposed to Micky D’s[/quote]
I never said the nitrates were “bad” as in bad for you ( the other guy did), however the processed foods that contain the nitrates ( bacon, sausage, fatty lunch meats) made me FEEL bad if they were a major constituent of the diet. My stomach felt heavy, mild headache sometimes, etc. If you tolerate them, they are cool though…thats just more variety for you in your diet.
Workout-wise, yes you want to take full advantage of the first 2-3 days after your carb up. “Make hay while the sun is shining” as the old saying goes. I like your ideas about switching your days around. You are strong as hell on monday and tuesday and should take full advantage of that. For a bodybuilding-type split, I would probably set it up where you rotate the bodyparts through those two days… maybe an ABCA 3 way training 4 times a week or something. You get the gist- just try to give all the bodyparts a little share of the monday action. But if not, its fine. I trained without rotating and it still worked great.
I am sure that optimizing carbs would lead to better results. Bodyopus has a really good theorhetical breakdown of an “optimized” weekend for this type of diet. Its definitely worth a read if you are interested in doing the diet the absolute best it can be done. I believe he starts off with glucose polymer drinks and continues through changing to complex carbs. Same premise I laid out, but a lot more detail.
[/quote]
Ill look up what ABCA3 is… Im not necissarily a BB Im just trying to get strong & lean… I’ve heard of Bodyopus… I have no problem with Bacon… I was worried about the bacon nitrates for long term health… You ever hear of anyone haveing long term effects from AD like heart attaks or strokes due to the high fat & choleterol…I didnt really see much on the net other than the regular low fat high carb shit that chicks are into…[/quote]
It would really do you good to read “Good Calories, Bad Calories”. This high fat, low carb diet has been prescribed to patients from select physicians now for about 200 years. It definitely didn’t begin recently, and has an excellent track record. In regards to heart attack and stroke- the lipid hypothesis has been disproven as the cause of heart disease now for a few years.
The current thought is that heart disease is instead a disease of inflammation, and the amount of total cholesterol in the blood is meaningless. In other words, this type of diet is just as healthy as any diet you are going to find out there today. You won’t die from it.
[/quote]
agreed…people need to finally get over their fear of fats. the metabolic diet or Anabolic Solution are both great books to learn why fat isn’t your enemy.
Guys, I can’t stop eating, I’m loving this. 