An introduction and request for advice

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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Hey everyone,

I have been T-mag reader for some time now and I do read the forums frequently however this is the first time I am going to contribute or rather ask advice of others here on T-nation.

I am 17 years old 195 lbs at 5’11 and roughly 6-7% BF.

Anyhow… I have been training effectively and eating a certain way for quite some years now. I am committed to the lifestyle I feel best suites me and I would not have it any other way. Within the last 2 years I have really dedicated my efforts to taking advantage of my naturally verile growth stage… meaning my teenage years, and have realized that now is the time to form a good solid muscular base when my body is naturally primed for growth and change and when I have the kind of time and discipline to do it the way I feel is right. I am endowed with patience and foresight and I realize that anything worth working for, especially something as complex and intergral to my life as my body takes time and effort to build effectively. I think this is something that many other people who train, whether it be the other kids my age looking to “get hyooge” over night or anyone else looking for instantaneous results overlooks. Building a strong, functional and aestetically pleasing body requires patience and discipline like anything else worth working for. I think the fact that I can realize this at a time when most of my peers want everything overnight is an advantage to me and my physical goals.

I am pretty well versed in the sciences which are the center of my lifestyle… meaning biochemistry, biology, physiology, some endocrinology,etc. When I decided to live the way I do I decided I would make the greatest effort to seek information that will enable me to produce the kind of body I desire. I have no tolerance for undertaking anything without being as well informed as one can be, and when I say well informed I mean on the basis of scientific fact, reason and logic and empirical evidence, not second hand opinion and misinformation. Unfortunately there is so much “scientific” bullshit that is spouted out by everyone who thinks their an expert that this creates a lot of misguided people… think people trying to diet who won’t put some olive oil on their salad because it has too much fat but are willing to dump some nice sugary chemical laden crap all over it. For this reason I choose T-mag as one of my sources for information because I find that many of the authors, while sometimes contradictory to one another, usually present new training methods, nutritional information, etc. based on solid fact that anyone willing to do some digging can agree with. While I may be too ambitious, one my major goals for my lifetime is to help dispel the misinformation and PRESENT it in a cogent and clear manner to anyone willing to make the effort to better themselves both physically and consequently, mentally… I’ll save those plans for another post though :slight_smile:

Ok, I’ll lay off the philosophy for now before I start boring you to death. I do have a question. It just takes me so long because I feel I need to present background before I ask something.

This year I decided I would enter my first competion. In doing so, my motives were not to gain recognition or respect but to do something in which what I am doing represents the culmination of everything that is included in my lifestyle… all the reading, the cooking, the training, the discipline, etc. I knew what I had to do, and after coming out of my bulking season right around march, after doing 5 months of massive eating and HST I weighed in at 220 from 180 in nov. Of that… 15 lbs was lean muscle… not bad for 5 months. In March, I started my contest dieting… My contest was to be May 1. Given 8 weeks I slowly phased out excessive carbs, decreased my calories to maintainance but changed my training to a modified westside style and I naturally got cardio with lacrosse practice. Everything was on track and this past weekend I came in at 192 looking nicely ripped and proportional. I had attained pretty much what I wanted. When I get pictures on the comp I will post some. This was my first contest. It was an NPC. It was fucking awesome. I have never felt anything so rewarding and intense as doing my first contest. I won my class and now I am going to compete in nationals in July.

Now… I wouldnt consider myself massive by any means… however given my age I have a great deal more muscular development than the majority of my peers. This is not to say I am the biggest kid around, because I know there are those 15 year kids who get ahold of some juice in the football room and come in looking like blimps, but the difference is that I possess a quality symmetrical and proportional physique with my greatest attribute being my legs. I made certain to develop my body as equally as possible to ensure that look that is appealing and function. This winter the greatest new growth occured in my lats, quads and chest and so I am pleased because I now have a nice v-taper and solid legs to show at nationals. Quite frankly I am not really impressed with the other teen competitors I see in some contests and so I feel I have a really solid chance. I saw last years winner and he is well developed but not much more than I am and he was 18 at the time so that is a full year on me.

My big decision lies here. I am lean and like the way I look right now but I want to ensure that I do well at nationals. I have 2.5 months… roughly 11 weeks until the contest. Do I try to go back into hypertrophy mode with focus on a seriously precise diet which will have the same caloric magnitude (5000 cals) but emphasizing entirely clean foods… all the time and training in the morning so to ensure that I stop eating abudant carbs after 12 pm and eating mostly protein/fat meals.

I really think if I plan out my meals precisely with the right nutrient timing and training in the morning I think I can stay lean maybe even lean up more and put on some more mass. This is going to be the most precise bulking I can ever do… I’ll be on top of everything. I am even considering focusing on eccentric portions of lift…not negatives… I’ll do concentric parts of the lifts too… but focusing more on the total time under tension rather than rep scheme. I think I can if I do it right. During the winter I really stay clean but I would throw in a cheat meal too frequently knowing I had time to lose it in the spring or I would incorporate too much of a macro in a meal… example… too much fat with a carb/protein meal. Now I don’t have that.

My other option is to maintain what I got now and just live keep training to maintain size and strength and then come in to nationals more ripped. dense and probably more vascular.

I really need to know what you would do if you were in my position. I will go more into detail about my diet if it is needed but I will summarize it by saying…

I have faith in nutrient timing and macro combination… I try to keep most my of carb/protein meals around my training time… pre and post and then phase out carbs towards bedtime. Pretty much, I have a diet in accordance with Berardi’s Massive Eating and Thanks in advance

Alexander

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Nice. Very articulate; glad you have made some phenominal progress. I think if you posted your daily dietary regimen and also the timing of your meals around workouts that might help some of the people here who are very experienced with this kind of thing.

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First of all, I’ve got to compliment you on your dedication, its inspirational for someone around the same age as you.
I don’t know much about competing, but given your already very lower bf% it seems you could try it. Considering your 17 it seems very possible to gain some size while staying lean. It would really help if you posted a picture though, because its hard to say without seeing you. Goodluck, keep working hard,
Julian

PS- If you get a chance, I’d really like to see your training program.

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I would also like to hear about your program and any diet info you can send my way.

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Acham,

Based on your post it sounds like you have excellent genetics, focus and drive.

11 weeks isn’t much time to bulk up and then cut back. That’s a tough call. Maybe stay about 500 calories over maintence for 6 weeks, then go 600-700 below maintence during the last 5 weeks. Add a little muscle and come in a little more ripped than you are now.

You know your body better than anything. Keep going with what’s been working and come in even more ripped at your next contest. Good luck!

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here’s one more

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Thank you everyone for the support and good responses…

My training and eating over the last year has looked like this…

Training: HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training). I really feel strongly about this approach because it makes sense physiologically. A progressive increase in load over the course of 8 weeks but most importantly the muscle groups get stimulated 3 days out of the week. This seems unorthodox and contrary to everything we have always heard but it makes so much sense. By not training to failure one can train the same muscle every other day and not overexert himself. By creating a stimulus for hypertrophy every other day, the anabolic precursors that stimulate muscle hypertrophy are secreted continuously instead of once every 7 days. This is not to say this is end all be all of training… but it works for me and a growing number of other people.

In accordance with the training comes my eating… undoubtably the most important factor in attaining my body goals. I can never stress enough how important eating sufficient amounts of food is to muscle growth and body composition. During the winter I follow massive eating guidelines with the occasional cheat. The only real difference though between massive eating and the way I eat to maintain and live is the inclusion of a lot more carbs. That’s really about it. When I am just maintaining I still live off of meat, fruit and veggies and nuts lots of quality fats . All wholesome good foods. Just during the winter I include a shitload more carbs(oatmeal,sweet potato) and then in the spring I start phasing the excess carbage out and just focus on postwork carbs and eat the rest of the day protein/fat meals.

During the winter I do lay down some fat but not much at all. I was around 12% Bf in the winter at most. I hold a lot of water though. LIke I said… I don’t think I really was a precise with my diet during the winter as I could be now. I trained after school always and so I was getting a lot of carbs towards bedtime.

Here is what I plan to do for the next 11 weeks given I decide to go into semi-hypertrophy mode.

  1. Train in the morning before school. Based on the nutrient timing principles I would train at 6 am and then eat protein/carb meals exclusively until 12 pm. From 12 p.m on I would eat protein/fat meals. This works out so much better for me because I like keeping my carb intake higher in the mornings around training and then finishing of the evenings with nice meat and veggie meals.

  2. On non-training days eat only protein/fat meals. This is something different than the winter. In the winter I a lot of carbs on non-training days. In retrospect I don’t think this is such a good idea. Anyhow… fibrous carbs fill me up so much that I can’t get down enough protein always. When I am eating primarily protein/fat meals it is much easier to get in a lot of calorie dense foods… My favorite meal… Broccolli rabe with garlic and oil and chicken and tomatoes… Good shit.

  3. I was doing very little cardio in the winter except a weekly lacrosse game. I am in the middle of lax season and in great cardiovascular shape. I plan to do plenty of sprinting on non-training days to keep myself in check.

  4. I plan to do this for 6 weeks and then use the last 4 to get ripped. Since I am starting relatively lean and intend on staying lean or even getting leaner… I think I can do it. Granted I gain some muscle this will help maintain my leaness. We’ll see.

I will be aiming for around 5000 calories a day. If I see myself getting too plump I’ll cut back. I really want to come in with some serious density and some more size. I want to bring up my shoulders and upper chest.

Anyhow… thanks again for the support everyone and I am looking very forward to contributing more here at T-mag while I prepare for my contest.

Oh… and the pictures I am including are from this past weekend in the hotel room. My mom and brother didnt take very good pics of me on stage so I did some in the room. These are midday and I just had a huge chinese food meal cause I knew I had it locked up so I am holding a bit more water than the morning. I went a bit overboard on the dreamtan too but it was a learning experience. Let me know what you think.

Alexander

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Damn man very impressive work and evn more impressive post and desire for the game from someone at such a young age. Welcome to the forumn and keep it up.

As far as your goal and upcoming event. I would lean toward staying roughly where you are now. focus on maintaining with a maint. or slightly over diet. That may actually allow a bit more progression in building LBM but will make the final cut much less stressful. 11 weeks just isnt much time.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Phill

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Thanks Phill…

I am going to start w/e training I am going to do tomorrow. Right now I am leaning towards a modified HST with massive eating principles but just not as massive… I will go a little over maintainance on training days I think and maintain the other days. Should keep me in check. If anything it will be a good experience.

Thanks again

Alexander

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Let me also extend a warm welcome to the forums. Being 17 myself, I found it absolutely fascinating to see that there is someone else my age who thinks and acts as I do (right down to the love of science). As for the next 11 weeks? Well, I know it isn’t much time but I would defintely give the light bulking, 500 cals sounds good, for the first 6-8 weeks and then tidying up over the last 3-5 weeks. The timing is actually perfect if you can hit it right, and given your dedication, you should be able to.

One comment a bit outside the request. You said you had chinese food so I don’t know if it’s that or the lighting or the camera but… it looks like your abs could use a little extra time. Luckily, you can work on them regardless of what dieting technique you decide to implement but if you are looking to improve at nationals, I would definitely spend a bit more time on the abs. Other than that, very solid build: Congratulations. And if you don’t mind, PM me. Obviously you elected not to recieve PMs but I would like the opportunity to chat with someone else my age with my interests :slight_smile: Best of luck. J

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Hey J,
I know what you mean. It is always very refreshing to meet those who can relate to the way we live and think. That is why I am always discussing my LIFESTYLE not soley my diet, or my training. Along with the physique comes a state of mind that is absolutely necessary to continue to progress and function the way I see fit. So… on that note… Glad to meet ya. I knew I was not alone but I know very few people our age who seriously have identified themselves with any kind of goals, bodybuilding or anything else, but knowing companions who feel similarly about this sport we do is always interesting and refreshing.

Anyhow…as for the next few weeks. I am going to go foward with my modified HST training with an emphasis on eccentrics and I am going to incorporate nearly all my carbs during the mornings after I train and then the remainder of the day will be an abundance of proteins/fats. I am going to stay on top of my sprinting too so I can stay on top of my lax game too.

As for the pics… I was a lot more cut in the morning man. It makes such a big difference after you eat a big starchy meal. In retrospect the meal wasn’t necessary but goddamn I wanted some sesame chicken so bad for like 2 weeks… so I did it when I knew I had it locked. But none the less… you’re right about the abs and also the legs. My legs are pretty solid but need more striations. They were good in the morning… pretty full later though. Leaning up for nationals will be much easier this time cause I am not coming out of a winter bulking season and I am going to give myself 4-5 weeks so that should be more than enough. I just want to do some work to bring up my upper chest and delts… they aren’t bad but out of everything they seem to need the most development.

Nationals is just going to be a nice experience and something fun for me to do. I go into everything with the intention to give everything I can. You either do it right or not at all is what I tell myself but whether I win or lose, I do this for myself. On that note… I was made aware that the teen category goes up to 19 so there will be kids with 2 years on me… and at our age… that is a lot. 2 more years and I would undoubtably 200+ lean. Given that fact it gives me more inspiration to come back for the next two years and do my best again and again.

Best of luck to your efforts as well

Alexander

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Just a follow up… I started my training/diet today. I am starting a 6 week HST cycle. I went to the gym at 6 am. this morning before school. It is pretty freakin awesome going to the gym early. I have never done it before school before cause I have to rush in order to get out by 7 am, but none the less… it was a great way to start the day. I took the AP Biology test today and the training definitely cleared my mind. I focused a lot on the eccentric portions of the lifts and I encorporated some of the combo lifts suggest by CT in his eccentric article.

As for the nutritional aspect… here is the run down. I decided to go with a diet about 500-1000 over maintainance in hopes of packing on some more mass in the shoulders and upper chest. I think I can handle this. If I start to put on some fat I’ll lay off… but it seems that the way I am doing it physiologically works out so that I lay down the smallest amount of fat.

Today looked like this

Meal 1- Pre workout
1 serving Surge

Meal 2-Post workout
Another serving of Surge

Meal 3- First solid carb/protein meal
Irish oatmeal with banana and a whey shake. (alright… I know there is too much shake but that is it for the day. It made it easier so I could drink it during the AP)

Meal 4-
Sweat Potatoe and Chicken Breast and 2 more bananas

12 pm. Stop eating carb/protein meals

Meal 5- Brocolli rabe with garlic and oil and fresh cherry tomatoes with more chicken breast.

Meal 6- Shish kabob lamb and eggplant dip

Meal 7- Lean roast beef slices with grilled veggies

Meal 8- Egg white and 2 egg omlette with some basil.

Sleeppppp…

I have to say I feel much better today than I ever have eating this much food and I think it is because I relied heavily on the clean carbs early on in my day when I am on an emptier stomach and then the second half more reliant on protein and fat. By doing this my blood sugar has remained more stable and I have not gotten the afternoon drawl that usually sets in after a big starchy lunch. On a side note… I got this amazing cooler bag that looks more like a back pack and it was awesome for my food today… lol… I like shit like that.

I feel good and we’ll see how it goes. I am also getting in about 3-4 grams of EPA/DHA, Vit. E complex, ALA before carb meals, some CLA, my antioxidant complex and some minerals. Tomorrow is a non training day and I have a lax game so that should take care of my cardio and keep me in check. The diet tomorrow is going to be entirel protein/fat/veggie meals so I think that should help offset any fat gain liable to happen during the carb days. We’ll see…

Alexander

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bump

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Maybe you should post your photos in the photo forum with an abbreviated version of the post just sticking to the main question (here’s what I look like, contest is in X weeks, what do you figure I should do.)

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It looks like you know what you are doing, and you seem far more commited than I am. Judging by your pics, I think you made the right decision to go for a little more mass. You did not really say anything about this, but I was wondering if your are planning to cut back at all on the leg work while you gain upper body mass, especially on your quads. Don’t get me wrong, you look great, but your physique seems a bit lopsided towards your lower body. I think it is great to see a young lifter who knows to train his legs, but if you want to look your best for the upcoming contest, you might consider prioritizing the upper body.

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Hey again,
I am on day 4 of my hypertrophy mode training/eating period and so far so good. I am feeling good and my workouts are quite good as well… Much better than my workouts were during my dieting. I have yet to see any fat gains. I have been eating solid and liquid carb/protein meals up to 6 hours post workout and then for the remainder of the day and then the following non-training day I don’t eat many carbs but still derive the necessary caloric needs by eating quality protein/fat meals.

My training is really focusing on bring up my shoulders and upper chest. My legs… as noted… are pretty large and don’t really need any more mass until my upper body catches up with the legs. However I am trying hard to bring out the defintion in my hams and calves so my cardio on non training days consists of 100m sprints with and without resistance.

Thanks for the advice everyone

Alexander

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Keep it up and kee us posted on the great progress.

Phill