An Idea For Squat Training

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
This also came to me yesterday while doing this.What if I do the partials then immediatly do full rom with a weight i can handle for reps.Have 2 bars set up.

In between doing the partials I was doing full rom with just body weight and I felt weightless which makes me think that a weight I usually use for full rom might feel lighter as well allowing me to bang out reps.[/quote]

I think it doesn’t matter much as long as you are still doing some reasonably heavy full squats somewhere in your training. I think it would be important to avoid neglecting full squats.

22

[quote]malonetd wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
This also came to me yesterday while doing this.What if I do the partials then immediatly do full rom with a weight i can handle for reps.Have 2 bars set up.

In between doing the partials I was doing full rom with just body weight and I felt weightless which makes me think that a weight I usually use for full rom might feel lighter as well allowing me to bang out reps.

I think it doesn’t matter much as long as you are still doing some reasonably heavy full squats somewhere in your training. I think it would be important to avoid neglecting full squats.[/quote]

Supplement it with single leg and single leg with extended ROM work? possibly some RDL in there too…

Include full or overhead squats as warmup?

I dont see why no full squats for a 6 week cycle would be such an issue.

Perhaps:
Warmup sets of full squats
Heavy rack walkouts to prep nervous system
Partials as op described for max effort sets
?

23

Would be better with box squats. Going with the 405 or whatever max your might be aiming for is too much. Safer tto box approm. 100 lbs. over your full squat. But man, try it out, if it worked for Anderson…

24

I did lockouts during this training cycle.

My sticking spot is about 4-5 inches out of the hole, so my theory was to set the pins pretty high, work up to a max and depending on that max either try to beat it the following week or drop a hole. I either used squats first followed by lockouts or lockouts followed by box squats against bands. I felt that I needed a full range squat with the lockout. I did include a couple of deload weeks every 4th or 5th week to get away from all that heavy weight on my back.

One of the side benefits of this, IMO, is that you get to lift supramaximal weight helping with stability and confidence. One of the (slight) negatives for me was that it was difficult getting exactly into a squatting position at the start. So it was more of a Good Morning, not that those would hinder my squat progress…:wink:

25

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
ok so I have come up with this and want your opinions on it.Now before I get in to it let me say that I already do full ROM squats atleast once a week as well as lunges and leg press.

Ok so here is my idea, most people train there squat from the bottom up, meaning they start with a weight they can handle with full ROM for 8-12 reps and add weight from there.Now lets say the lifter wants to be able to sqaut 405.instead of starting with say 135 0r 225 or whatever they just start with 405.And instead of doing full ROM squats the lifter does partial squats, the lifter sets the pins in the power rack at say just below bent knees or about a 1/8th rep.Then does lots of sets while moving slowly and trying to do as many reps as possible without getting sloppy.

Each week moving the pins down a slot or whatever is comfertable and repeating until getting to parallel.

Also doing lots of full ROM squats with a weight light enough to focus on proper form and technique.

Your opinions please.[/quote]

they are actually called anderson squats and Eric Cressey recomends them in his book maximum strenght.

26

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
ok so I have come up with this and want your opinions on it.Now before I get in to it let me say that I already do full ROM squats atleast once a week as well as lunges and leg press.

Ok so here is my idea, most people train there squat from the bottom up, meaning they start with a weight they can handle with full ROM for 8-12 reps and add weight from there.Now lets say the lifter wants to be able to sqaut 405.instead of starting with say 135 0r 225 or whatever they just start with 405…

Each week moving the pins down a slot or whatever is comfertable and repeating until getting to parallel.

Also doing lots of full ROM squats with a weight light enough to focus on proper form and technique.[/quote]

As others have said, your basic idea is sound as one of the methods used to improve strength.

However your example is taking it far too far and is a recipe for injury.

It’s absolutely fine for a person who can now squat only 135 or 225 to have a firm goal in mind of 405.

And yes, he probably could do some very partial squats with 405.

But this is not the way to go.

I cannot give an exact percentage but I would say that using more than 25% above, maybe 33% above, the weight that can be used for a truly-parallel squat (top of thighs) for a workset or more than 100 lb greater than 1RM, whichever is less, is a bigger increase than should be used for this method.

For example, the person that can squat 225 for parallel for a workset could safely and profitably use 275 for partials. Maybe 305, at the high end, and that may be too high depending on the person.

It’s not that partials can’t physically be done with more than this, but that it’s unwise, or at least can be for many, to use weights ridiculously out of line with strength in the parallel squat. Yes, Anderson used weights much further above his parallel squat, but he could do many things most of us cannot.

Lastly, I believe it should be counterbalanced with training that emphasizes the weak part of the range. For example, 1 1/2 squats (going down fully, coming up only halfway, going down fully, and then coming up fully counting as either one or two reps depending on how you like to count. Another method is going down fully, and then coming up only halfway each time for the working number of reps, then either coming up fully and being done, or finishing with some full reps. If finishing with multiple full reps, don’t do this until the last workset. Doing it every workset is too demanding, IMO.)

27

“full ROM squats atleast once a week as well as lunges and leg press.”

To become a stronger squatter, you need to squat more. Nothing fancy is needed. You could look into Smolov if you want a real challenge, Modi just finished it, and he got a 280kg PR now…

Lunges does nothing for your squat. Leg presses does nothing for your squat. Just squat more. At least two times a week and preferably 3-4 times a week.

28

[quote]Modi wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Well I gave them a go today and like them very much.I plan on doing this once a week and will lower the pins a slot as I progress.

One thing I found tho is walking out with a weight much heavier then I am acustomed to is tricky and I think I am gonna start doing heavy farmers walks to help strengthen my self up.

Your thoughts.

I would just stick with walking out the heavy weights. You’ll get used to it pretty quick.

Farmer’s walks are great, but I don’t see them helping your Squat walkouts.[/quote]

Agreed. The goal is to progress in ROM, not weight. To do both would be silly. If you got that weight out once, it will only be easier to get it out next time.

29

[quote]stallion wrote:
“full ROM squats atleast once a week as well as lunges and leg press.”

To become a stronger squatter, you need to squat more. Nothing fancy is needed. You could look into Smolov if you want a real challenge, Modi just finished it, and he got a 280kg PR now…

Lunges does nothing for your squat. Leg presses does nothing for your squat. Just squat more. At least two times a week and preferably 3-4 times a week.
[/quote]

I agree that the best way to get stronger at a lift is do the lift, but are you trying to say assistance work is useless?

30

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
ok so I have come up with this and want your opinions on it.Now before I get in to it let me say that I already do full ROM squats atleast once a week as well as lunges and leg press.

Ok so here is my idea, most people train there squat from the bottom up, meaning they start with a weight they can handle with full ROM for 8-12 reps and add weight from there.Now lets say the lifter wants to be able to sqaut 405.instead of starting with say 135 0r 225 or whatever they just start with 405.And instead of doing full ROM squats the lifter does partial squats, the lifter sets the pins in the power rack at say just below bent knees or about a 1/8th rep.Then does lots of sets while moving slowly and trying to do as many reps as possible without getting sloppy.

Each week moving the pins down a slot or whatever is comfertable and repeating until getting to parallel.

Also doing lots of full ROM squats with a weight light enough to focus on proper form and technique.

Your opinions please.

I used to think the same way but… I just realized, lets say you plan on squatting 405 as a one rep max full ROM, you start out by half a a quarter squat, your quads does most of the work, and then you quarter squat it for the second set, your quads does most of the work, and then you squat it to the type of depth where your lower leg hits parallel, your quads STILL does most of the work, and then you go to parallel for your last acclimation sets, and BOOYA!!

It’s the first warm up for your hammies and ass. And for the final set, your quads were warmed up pretty well while your hammies only had one warm-up set…

Quads does most of the work the higher your squat is, assuming of course, your stance is about shoulder width.

I personally don’t think it’s a great idea…
[/quote]

I had exactly this experience. Started with high pins and worked my down. Above a certain point my quads did all the work. Below that point my hams and glutes started to kick in, and they couldn’t handle the weight as they had not been stressed or worked prior. I think this could work if good mornings-type movements were used rather than squats and then turn them into squats at the critical point.

Heavy partial squats are excellent for strengthening the spinal erectors however and teaching you to stay tight.

31

[quote]stallion wrote:
“full ROM squats atleast once a week as well as lunges and leg press.”

To become a stronger squatter, you need to squat more. Nothing fancy is needed. You could look into Smolov if you want a real challenge, Modi just finished it, and he got a 280kg PR now…

Lunges does nothing for your squat. Leg presses does nothing for your squat. Just squat more. At least two times a week and preferably 3-4 times a week.
[/quote]

I agree that the best way to get stronger at a lift is do the lift, but are you trying to say assistance work is useless?

32

[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
stallion wrote:
“full ROM squats atleast once a week as well as lunges and leg press.”

To become a stronger squatter, you need to squat more. Nothing fancy is needed. You could look into Smolov if you want a real challenge, Modi just finished it, and he got a 280kg PR now…

Lunges does nothing for your squat. Leg presses does nothing for your squat. Just squat more. At least two times a week and preferably 3-4 times a week.

I agree that the best way to get stronger at a lift is do the lift, but are you trying to say assistance work is useless?[/quote]

Best advice thus far.

If u want to increase ur AtG Squat you need to squat 2-3times per week, and stop leg pressing. AFTER you reach a platou squatting 2-3times per week THEN you can play with this Anderson Squat Training thing.

Here is what happened to me last year over the summer:
I was back/front squatting once a week, sometimes I skipped it. I thought it would not be a problem because I still did Snatches and Clean & Jerks.
-Well 3months later my Back Squat when up by:… (drum roll)… 1kg!

As for the split squats, lunges, pistols, etc… those are good and you should do them once a week. HOWEVER, they are assistance lifts, NOT replacement lifts.

33

It sounds like you wouldn’t be getting enough posterior chain work in the beginning of this program.

34

I don’t know whether the OP included a detail that actually he did not mean, or whether he did mean it but everyone is just ignoring it.

His question regards someone who can only squat 135 or 225 but wants to squat 405, working with 405 right from the start.

A person who can squat only 135 does not need to be loading the bar with 405 for any type of squat. Neither really does the person who can squat only 225.

You do see it done sometimes by those who don’t know what they’re doing, but it’s taking a valid principle and taking it into erroneous territory.

Another factor was the idea that lowering a pin per week would take the 135/225 squatter to 405. I don’t know how many pins the OP has in mind, as racks vary, but the idea that a typical lifter with a squat in that range would get to 405 in that few weeks generally is not realistic.

35

I think this plan would work for me. The most I’ve squatted to parallel is 350 but have gotten real close with 375 so if I were to do say 405 for partials and lower the pins each week for 4-6 weeks I might be able to do the 405 to parallel. I agree that someone only squatting 135 or 225 is not ready even for partials with 405. That would be asking for trouble. I plan on squatting again this week. It’s been over 2 months thanks to my torn MCL. All better now!

36

The idea looks great on paper, but it really sucks. You’ll find it too easy for the first few weeks, then at one point you’ll drop the pin a notch and not be able to budge the bar. You will go back to full squatting and suck ass. I guess it’s good for quarter squatters though.

37

Why is a box or pins necessary? Can’t he just go by feel/use a mirror?

38

Hard to discuss why a component of a plan that wouldn’t work – a 135 or 225 squatter deciding to not bother with those weights but just go right to 405 for a top partial and drop a pin per week till, supposedly, full squatting with 405 – is “necessary” compared to another way that wouldn’t work (the same person trying the same thing in a mirror.)

39

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
It works better if you have the strength but just not a good squatter. If someone doesn’t have the muscle and strength its a good way to get them hurt or teach them to fail.[/quote]

x2