I’ve been doing a lot of AMRAP training lately, to make the most out of time constraints. Usually, I do a 5 min AMRAP each, of 6 different excercises in a workout. I chose a 10RM estimated weight, and make each mini-set last until I reach RPE 8-9 ending it with a final all out set, when time’s up. Mostly done with resistance bands, even though I might add the occasional gym machine intervals.
This appearantly works, primarily for endurance (HIIT) but also show a tendency of making me leaner.
In short, how would you suggest constructing an AMRAP regime - in order to make it as hypertrophic as possible? That is, if this is even possible? I’m considering a heavier weight selection, which will make the reps fewer (and a lot of short sets). Thing is, I like the free form approach within an AMRAP.
Anyone else with an idea are very welcome to contribute.
Well, right from the start, this will make the exercise vastly inferior for hypertrophy.
I’m not saying that you cannot get muscle growth from bands work, you can. But the stimulus is much weaker, as little as 1/3rd of the growth stimulus from other forms of resistance.
That’s because resistance bands underload (or even stop loading) the most effective portion of a rep with it comes to hypertrophy: the lengthened state (when the muscle is stretched under load). In that position, the bands don’t provide much resistance, so tension is minimal, which means poor growth.
And due to the resistance profile of bands only half of the concentric and eccentric phases are properly loaded.
Let me ask you this: have you seen any person build a large muscular physique primarily with EMOMs?
The answer is NO.
If it were an effective method for hypertrophy, it would be more popular and widespread. After all EMOMs have existed for a pretty long time so people have experimented with it. And pretty much nobody do them for hypertrophy… don’t you think that it means something.
The closest to that approach that we’ve seen in bodybuilder was Vince Gironda’s 8x8 method which uses 8 sets of 8 reps with 30 seconds of rest (as little as 15 seconds for his advanced lifters). So that would be close to your 5 min EMOM. So you might want to look that method up if that’s the direction you want to take.
But in light of what we now know about how hypertrophy, it is not an approach I would recommend anymore.
Keep in mind that a method that claims or is designed to do a lot of things at once, rarely works really well for any of those “things”.
Thank you for replying @Christian_Thibaudeau and clearing this matter, once and for all. I interpret your reply as AMRAPs or EMOMs not sufficient (or preferred) methods for hypertrophy. Also, really appreciate your further explanation behind the disadvantages with bands.
I may have gotten this idea from the well known “science” suggesting that low or high reps does not matter re the final result - but maybe this was all about strength (not hypertrophy)? Hell, there even was an article (maybe a repost) here on Tnation that compared pushups to benchpress on intermediate trainees - showing greater hypertrophy in the pushup group (but I may have missed the finer points). I also had an idea of AMRAPs resembling cluster sets. I can also recall 50 or 100 rep challenges in various forms, as well as “high density training” variations. But - these may all be strength developing strategies?
Not expecting you to reply to all of my thought examples - But in order to learn more - What are the primary benefits with AMRAPs and EMOMs, in your opinion (if any)? Is it just metcon, endurance or strength?
That is correct, but it actually is an argument against long AMRAPs (like your 5 minutes).
The science is that only the last 4-6 reps prior to hitting failure are conducive to hypertrophy. Depending on how you perform the AMRAPs, you don’t do many reps close to failure. So a 5 minutes of almost continuous work might not provide more than 5-10 effective reps for a boatload of work.
PLUS, the nature of the method (high volume with very short rest) favors a high level of central fatigue; which is a weakening of the excitatory drive from the nervous system to the muscles, which makes it harder to recruit the fast-twitch fibers even if close to failure. So it is quite possible that the reps that would be maximally beneficial in your long AMRAP are made a lot less effective because of the central fatigue
Any high density work is going to be inferior for both strength and size development. The scientific literature is quite clear on that one: longer rest periods (2-3 minutes) are superior for growth and strength than short rest periods (1 minutes or less).
The only benefit to EMOMs, besides as a conditioning tool, it is that it gives you a sense of urgency which can boost adrenaline. This will make you feel better than might help with strength during the session, but can easily backfire.
I also find that EMOMs can help you NOT think about the weight to lift. So a lifter who has a psychological barrier might use EMOM ladder (going up in weight on every set) as a way to not have that mental block regarding the weight.
To be fair, bands have one advantage: you can train a muscle more frequently and you recover faster from that type of work. Which is why I like band work to improve a lagging muscle by “practicing” contracting it more often, improving the skill of using that muscle.
Thank you again @Christian_Thibaudeau for the very comprehensive answers. I have learned a lot in a short period of time!
It seems I should use AMRAP and EMOM strategies sparingly from now on. I am trying to adapt a freeform approach to my training, shifting styles from one workout to the other (HIT, HIIT, powerlifting, ladders, clusters, pumpsets, high density and AMRAPs). Even if it’s a great way of resisting adaptation, the results may get lost along the way - if I’m not being careful! More recently into the longer high rep sets, just for the fun of it. And yes, I do have a short background in Crossfit during a 6 month military assignment (not that I knew what I was doing then).
Would it matter if I were to apply HIT style reps with emphasized negatives (one rep in 6-8 secs)? But wait, this would be more like an extended rest-pause strategy (and not AMRAPs) - right? Nevertheless it would probably fry my nervous system and result in unnecessary fatigue…
I understand what you want to do: avoid habituation that comes from repeating the same training stress.
I do believe in that too, but IMHO, your approach (which is very Crossfit-ish if you think about it) is an improper application.
I’m not saying that it will not bring results. Any intense training stimulus done with a certain progression over time will lead to some level of improvement, provided that nutrition and rest are adequate.
But this kitchen sink approach is far from optimal.
Yeah, I get that some Crossfit athletes are jacked, strong, powerful and athletic. But these are the top in the world. Who have a combination of some of these factors:
Genetic predispositions
Drug use
An extensive high-level sporting/training background before starting Crossfit
Youth and low level of stress (most top Crossfiters are full-time athletes or have a low-stress/low-time job)
*I’m not saying that all the top athletes have all of that (especially the drug use,although it is A LOT more prevalent than most think). But most of the top have at least 2 or 3 of those conditions.
Go to any Crossfit box/gym and you will rarely see anyone looking anywhere close to what top crossfitters look like, much less perform like them.
I have trained a lot of Crossfit competitors, including Crossfit Games competitors. I’ve also taught weightlifting classes in 5 different Crossfit gyms. So I’m not making this up.
I’m pretty sure you also model your theory on the young powerlifter you talked about a few months back.
Again, the results of one exceptional athlete (and he is exceptional) doesn’t represent proof that a certain training approach works. Some people just have crazy genetics. And what works for them isn’t likely to work for most.
Exceptional genetics is pretty much like anabolic steroids in that those who have it respond to training differently than the common mortals.
In fact, I’ve known quite a few genetic freaks who could build more muscle and strength (or other physical capacities) naturally than people with average/below-average genetics on steroids.
I think it’s much smarter to look at what approach is most commonly used by the majority of successful lifters/athletes.
And none of them (except the Crossfit athletes I mentioned) use this type of random melting pot training approach.
You also need to look at science:
What type of training brings which adaptations
Which types of training can be combined without interference with each other
What adaptations do you need to achieve what you want
Select the type(s) of training that will stimulate those adaptations
If your end-goal includes reaching a high level in several categories (e.g. muscle mass, strength, power, resistance,endurance) then you must find the best sequence to develop all of them without interfering or exceeding the body’s capacity to handle stress.
As for habituation/adaptation. It doesn’t occur as fast as you seem to believe. There is no need to always train differently to avoid it.
And don’t forget: adaptations is gains!!! Without adaptation there is no gains. What we call gains are the body adapting to physical stress. So we want to stay with the same type of stimulus for adaptation to occur but not for so long that you become resistant to the stimulus.
But that’s why during a training cycle you must plan a certain progression in the training tress. Either by increasing volume, effort level, or load. This prevents habituation as the level of stress always increases.
At some point you reach a stress level that is close to being excessive. That’s when you need to change the stimulus as that’s when habituation will occur.
That’s called block periodization or concentrated loading. You can read up on it in the work of Vladimir Issurin and, Yuri Verkhshansky. I have also written an ebook on that topic (it might still be free on thibarmy.com).
Essentially you focus on one or two adaptations (that ideally go well together, for example power and endurance will interfere with each other, strength and power will not) and you use short training blocks.
In a block you give all you’ve got to maximally progress in 1or 2 areas. And you switch capacities in the next block.
To make it work optimally you need to know how long a certain capacity is maintained. For example, after a strength block, strength is maintained for 30 days. So you need to get back to strength work within 30 days.
Some capacities have a shorter maintenance period (all given in Issurin’s book) so sometimes you need to throw in some maintenance work (there is a difference between maintenance work and stimulatory work).
For example, speed is something you lose quickly so you might need to keep some sprinting once every 7-10 days (but that would be very low volume, just ot avoid degradation).
But always switching training types around is unnecessary and sub-optimal
EDIT: Here is the Concentrated loading e-book… it’s sadly no longer free though
To begin with, I am honored for your attention brought to my trivial dilemma! The block periodization and priority of effort sounds very reasonable.
I’m not sure how far I can take this here, without entering an area of your personal trainer’s assistance expertise?
My kitchen sink approach (appearantly crossfittish) is based upon the fact that I never really know when I am able to train. Busy work schedule, 3 little girls and everyday obligations as well as varied recovery/sleeping patterns makes my training efforts reactive. I always bring my training bag with me whenever opportunity presents itself. In general no fixed days. As it turns out in practicality, I succeed in hitting the gym once weekly (sometimes twice a week) for 60 mins (powerlifting or an old school HIT workout) + am able to join the 30 min tabata/HIIT session at work during lunchtime on fridays + on top of that a home gym session (with bands or dumbbells, though I often apply different ladders, for example chinups, dips and simple leg excercise of choice - sometimes in a superset fashion). I have come to realize my recovery takes longer as I get older (now 49 y.o.) though I have no problem to bring up the intensity or moderately in volume. The frequency is what proves to be the hardest challenge. I can’t train as often as I would like (even if I could). Probably part of normal evolution/aging.
I have always favoured strength and/or hypertrophy, but considering the above limitations - it all ends up very crossfit alike, as you kindly reminded me of.
Question is, how to form a decent direction ( a periodization block) considering all of the above? I could probably use some guidance here, and would be much appreciative for a private online consultation with you - just to sort things out in ANY beneficial direction. Or - is the solution closer than I think? I’m thinking a way to tweak each session more into as much of a preferred “block” as possible? (Which is basically what you said in your previous post).
Well, first of all I do understand your situation. It’s not unlike my own (two young kids who play 2-3 organized sports each… like this morning I had to do a ballet class with my 2 years old daughter), I have my business to run, people to train, I also travel often for seminars.
One thing that plays in my favor is that I sleep easily (so you might want to look for ways to improve that first).
It still doesn’t prevent me from structuring my training.
Heck, I had a client who had 5 kids, and working 50-60h a week on his business while traveling across the US 2 weeks a month and he still managed to train 4 days a week and took his bench press from 165 to 315lbs in a year.
One of my clients who had the best improvements was a single mother of 3 kids who worked as a nurse on rotating 12h shifts (days and nights), often pulling 16h shifts (our health care system is overload and the nurses really pay the price). She also trained 4-5 days a week with me and made amazing progress.
I’m not saying this to belittle your situation. But things like that are never an excuse to me. And from my experience working with way more than a thousand clients ranging from the average Joe to world-class athletes; those who find excuses are always those who progress the least.
Those who progress the most are those who just do it. But it does require more structure.
One thing I will say is that your situation is a variable that will make it harder to progress, especially if you don’t plan properly and try to get everything at once, providing one huge stimulus to the body.
I will also reiterate what I mentioned earlier: FIX YOUR SLEEP FIRST. If you don’t fix it, it will be extremely hard to reach your goals regardless of how smart your programing is.
Now, some advice.
Here’s where you should start:
What you want to accomplish (your end-game)
Analyze what is needed to reach that end-game (physical capacities, muscle mass, etc.)
Compare what is needed to what you already have (you might be closer to your goal in some capacities than others) and rank the needs in order of priority (from the one that you need to improve the most to the one that needs the least improvement)
For each “need” establish which is the best approach to use (which also takes into consideration your life situation). You might have 1-2 approaches for each “need”, but try to keep it simple and stick with the most proven, effective, and efficient methods.
Look at the “needs” and their selected methods and group those that fit well together (e.g. hypertrophy and strength work well together, hypertrophy and power, less so. Power and strength work well together, power/strength and long-distance endurance not so much. But hypertrophy and short-duration conditioning can work well together, endurance and short-duration conditioning can work well together, speed and power work well together, etc.)
Establish a realistic timeline to reach your goal (maybe not the end-goal, but a good way toward achieving it)
Divide that timeline into 3-6-weeks blocks
Allocate the training units (combination of 2 elements that work well together) for each block: allocate more time per block and more blocks for things you need to improve the most. Ideally, you’d have 1 dominant block (e.g. strength and hypertrophy) which is used often (but you can use different methods when you repeat the block) and 1 or 2 secondary block(s) (of 2 “needs”)
It could look like this (this is not what I recommend for you, I don’t know your goals, it is to illustrate the concept)
Block I - hypertrophy - strength (6 weeks): You would have 1-2 sessions per week for each OR combine both in 3-4 weekly sessions which would have both strength work and hypertrophy work. You can have one session a week where you work on something different like endurance, resistance, power or speed (or even a mix).
Block II - Strength - Power (4 weeks): Here you would either have 1-2 sessions/week for each or use 3-4 sessions which combine both. For that second option, I like to use complexes of 1 strength movement with 1 power movement. Once again, once a week or once every 2 weeks you can have 1 session for “something else”
Block III - Hypertrophy - Endurance (3 weeks): Here you focus mostly on hypertrophy but you introduce a fondation of endurance. Not like an endurance athlete, but something like adding 30-45 min at 120 beats per minute 2-3 times per week.
Block IV - Hypertrophy - strength (4 weeks) same as block I
Block V - Short-duration conditioning - Hypertrophy (3 weeks): this could be 2-3 hypertrophy days and 1-2 conditioning days. Or adding a short metcon (8-12 minutes) at the end of the hypertrophy sessions
Block VI - Strength - Power (4 weeks) ; similar to block 2
Then the trick to to use the proper tools to do the job in each block… not tools that give you a little bit of several things. THE tool(s) that work the best for each “need”.
In your situation, for hypertrophy I like an effort-based program (what you call HIT). You can increase the stress level in a block by using gradually more demanding methods for your work set.
For example:
Week 1: Top set to failure
Week 2: Top set to failure + lengthened (bottom half) partials after failure
Week 3: Top set as a rest/pause
Week 4: Top set as a drop set
Week 5: Trop set as a double rest/pause
Week 6: Deload with top set only going to failure
For strength, I like both the double progression (which works best if you do at least 8 weeks in a row of strength work) or a weekly load increase:
For example:
Weekly load increase
Week 1: 3 sets of 8
Week 2: 3 sets of 6
Week 3: 4 sets of 5
Week 4: 5 sets of 3
Week 5: 2 cluster sets of 4-6 reps with a bit more than week 4
Week 6: 5 sets of 3 partial overloads (e.g. board press, pin pull, squat to 90 degrees)
The double progression is simpler, you pick a zone (let’s say 3-5 reps, which is best to build strength) and a number of work sets (e.g. 4). You want to use the same weight for all of your work sets. When you can do all of the work sets at the top of the range (5 reps in our example) you can add weight at the next session.
For power, it depends on your level of experience with explosive work. Most should start with various umps and medicine ball throws and can eventually progress to loaded jumps and even the simpler variations of the olympic lifts
For short-term conditioning you have more leeway: you simply want to work at a high level of effort for 2-3 minutes in a row. The effort level/exercise selection should be such that you are out of breath at the end of the set. And you can do 3-5 of these sets.
It can be a single modality (e.g. rowing ergometer, 800m sprints, bike sprints, assault bike, pushing the prowler, doing loaded carries, etc.)
Or, like I prefer medleys of 2 or 3 of these means (which can look like a mini Crossfit workout):
For example:
1 min of KB swings
1 min of prowler pushing
1 min of rowing ergometer
Here’s the problem: the more stress you have in your life (and the worse you sleep is) the MORE organized your training needs to be. Doing whatever every workout is the best way to not know if the imposed stimulus is too much or not appropriate for your goal.
One thing I forgot to mention and that might also be part of your goal: getting leaner.
It’s the same thing as with other goals: it might be more appropriately paired with some goals more than others.
For example, trying to get leaner will make it harder to:
Build muscle
Gain strength
It will have no impact (unless the diet is crazy restrictive), or even a slight benefit on:
Short-duration conditioning
Power
It will have a positive impact on improving:
Endurance
Mobility
Agility
So you might consider that too if trying to get lean is one of your goal. Maybe keep the fat loss phase for blocks where the caloric restriction will not hurt progress in the things trained in the block.
Amazing @Christian_Thibaudeau! I’m speechless! You have awarded me (and everone else here) with a lecture in how to construct block periodization depending on my/your end term goal! Very generous of you, and says a lot about your view of man.
I will have to re-read this a number of times. Now, you got my gears spinning. I assume your new hypertrophy based program cover this and more?