Last night I was sitting in Minneapolis waiting for a connection flight and due to the crowded room, I sat down next to a cute blonde girl. We got to talking and it turns out she had just received her masters for dietetics. When she told me this, I let her know I was a nutritional freak and was actually working on my “diet manifesto” as we speak.
She proceeded to ask me about it and I told her basically I am tracing our ancestry back to primates, looking at their initial diet, and through diet/social/biological/geological changes eventually evolved to the homo sapiens we are today.
I went on discuss how early primates mostly ate fruits/bugs,then evidence shows teeth changed (and other factors), allowing the inclusion of nuts/seeds/meat, thus allowing brain capacity and we slowly made it to the top of the food chain.
I went on to discuss that eventually ancient man discovered ways to make grain digestible, however until wild game was hard to come by (due to population likely), grains would likely not have been preferred.
She then stopped me and said, so you don’t eat carbohydrates? Which I said no I definitely do, however they have a time and a place;around exercise. I told her I eat high protein/carbs on w/o days, and high protein/fat on non days. A lot of my Fats including avacados, unrefined coconut oil and a shit load of grass fed beef.
This is where it gets funny. She cuts me off and says coconut oil is almost all saturated fat!I say, ya i know, 50% of which is lauric acid. She proceeds to tell me that saturated fat is nothing but bad for you, and she just wrote her thesis paper on coconut oil, and i need to check my sources. I was in shock. I suggested that I bet she consumes a lot of whole grains, to which of course she said yes. I wanted to slap her.
I’m done. First person that says cool story bro definitely does NOT get a prize because I thought it was a GREAT story!
I worked in a health care setting that used to employ a dietician. I said something to her once on how awful cereals were, to which she replied “no they’re not, they spray them with vitamins!”
UGH. You can’t talk to dieticians.
My own doctor had never heard of eating a paleo type of diet. She had also not heard of a vap test for cholesterol. It’s a pain in the ass, but I guess it’s up to people like us to try to educate others about this lifestyle, or at least ignor their rants.
I’m not sure if your trying to belittle what I do in my free time or what Carlsbad, but good observation; it is very similar to the paleo diet. I include dairy however, and like I said above I eat carbohydrates on workout days. I think you trying to sound clever(?) based on you quoting my title, however it’s really unnecessary and a useless statement not adding to the conversation in a good way.
I am basically writing this as a way to describe why I eat the way I do, and I actually find our ancestral line fascinating (Australopithecus and what not) and how we evolved into what we are today. No pun intended to religious folks.
Jahova - I would butter that girls bread any damn day!!!
Destiny - Without any real sources to back me up, I will go ahead and make the claim that it is sad that many doctors today are way behind the game. I blame school and how reactive everything is(slowly I will add). The food pyramid is so messed up. It doesn’t take into consideration energy expenditure, healthy fats (both saturated and non!), any of the important stuff! Maybe one day, but how many people must suffer before the truth gets out?
This pretty much sums up my whole life as a dietitian. Constantly hearing this type of stuff/arguments from co-workers regarding my low carb high fat diet. I eventually gave up trying to discuss nutrition topics unrelated to clinical nutrition with them as they are almost always unwilling to change the way they think. The sad part is its mainly because the education we receive is essentially through the eye of the beholder (nutrition professor) and they just regurgitate what they tell them and most SIGNIFICANTLY lack a fundamental understanding of nutritional physiology.
So your diet is based on arbitrarily excluding certain foods depending on whether you train or not?
Also, save yourself the headache and don’t discuss nutrition with random people, it just leads to pointless arguments against an ingrained belief. ie you cannot win ever.
[quote]roon12 wrote:
So your diet is based on arbitrarily excluding certain foods depending on whether you train or not?
uum yes? I use carbs as a tool. quick energy and replenishing after exercise.Protein and fats play a much more important role in bodily functions? Amino acids, fatty acids. protein and fat will provide sustained energy as well without the insulin spikes which you don’t need if you are not exercising. look at thibs carb codex. There is talk regarding this everywhere on this site? Do you visit regularly?
Also, save yourself the headache and don’t discuss nutrition with random people, it just leads to pointless arguments against an ingrained belief. ie you cannot win ever.
I agree. To be honest, it wasn’t much of an argument. I tend not to argue, but ask questions and if possible through those questions get them to see it my way. If they don’t, at least it doesn’t come across like i am attacking the person.
Boom
ps. I’m eating a venison steak as we speak and it is amaaazing! Doesn’t get more natural than that.
[quote]ndiddy85 wrote:
This pretty much sums up my whole life as a dietitian. Constantly hearing this type of stuff/arguments from co-workers regarding my low carb high fat diet. I eventually gave up trying to discuss nutrition topics unrelated to clinical nutrition with them as they are almost always unwilling to change the way they think. The sad part is its mainly because the education we receive is essentially through the eye of the beholder (nutrition professor) and they just regurgitate what they tell them and most SIGNIFICANTLY lack a fundamental understanding of nutritional physiology. [/quote]
Well said. Hopefully today’s youth with access to so much information will be able to push through the dogma presented previously thru misinterpreted studies. It really is sad because nobody is doing this intentionally, people just don’t know. Because it is in an old text book, people think it must be 100% correct. Well history suggests we don’t know shit!
a famous philosoher once said “all i know is that i know nothing”. I take everything with a grain of salt and do the best i can.
As a dietitian maybe you can answer this. Once you get your degree or cert or whatever you get (not to belittle your job as I would LOVE to be in your shoes), are you required to continue your studies? Doctors who are in their 40’s and 50’s would have learned outdated information.
[quote]roon12 wrote:
So your diet is based on arbitrarily excluding certain foods depending on whether you train or not?
Also Roon, the fact that grains aren’t even digestible until processed and even then we have adapted to be able to consume it has me wondering where it fits in our diet. Do some research you might be surprised what you find. To be honest the only carbs (excluding fruit/veggies mmmm) I only eat tators and rice for main sources of carbs. Ever try brown rice noodles? Trador joes has them
[quote]roon12 wrote:
So your diet is based on arbitrarily excluding certain foods depending on whether you train or not?
Also Roon, the fact that grains aren’t even digestible until processed and even then we have adapted to be able to consume it has me wondering where it fits in our diet. Do some research you might be surprised what you find. To be honest the only carbs (excluding fruit/veggies mmmm) I only eat tators and rice for main sources of carbs. Ever try brown rice noodles? Trador joes has them
Apologize if I am coming off harsh [/quote]
Nope, not harsh, although I have done my research
It was just the bit about essentially Paleo-style eating followed by ‘oh btw I also eat carbs and dairy’.
I don’t agree with the rationale behind ‘Paleo’ eating although I do agree with the idea of eating less grains (not carbs). Paleo eating IMO ignores the fact that the Paleolithic Era was a blip on the timeline of evolution as well as the fact that we are not cavemen anymore, why should we eat like them?
Amino’s fats and proteins can also spike insulin BTW and when consumed in conjunction with carbs, they blunt the resulting insulin spike.
If you look round this site enough, there is justification for just about any eating plan you can think of, high carb, low carb, protein cycling etc. They can be useful but science and research win out in the end.
Honkey46 - the fact that grains are not even digestible until processed and even then we have adapted to be able to consume it has me wondering where it fits in our diet.
Agreed, considering we do not even have the enzymes to break down many of these grains!
In my opinion it is more practical to follow a modified paleo plan especially for those who live very active lifestyles. According to many paleo types, oils should be used sparingly including coconut oil and avocado oil. This is a stretch since most contributors here frequently use these. Butter and dairy are also avoided which I feel is unnecessary when normal butter can be substituted with a omega-3 enriched variety and fat free or reduced fat versions of dairy can be used.
In regards to your thought about intake on workout or non workout days I think you are trying to say the amounts of carbs change, not that you avoid them on non workout days. I do that since I sprint and lift on some days and just sprint on others (sprints done 6 days per week). Based on intensity I adjust carbohydrate intake.
The funniest thing is you came on here to post a funny story about the misinformed even if they have a degree in the subject (these are the ones telling you to stay away from red meat and animal fats) and people come on making comments about your thoughts on diet. Hilarious.
In regards to your thought about intake on workout or non workout days I think you are trying to say the amounts of carbs change, not that you avoid them on non workout days. I do that since I sprint and lift on some days and just sprint on others (sprints done 6 days per week). Based on intensity I adjust carbohydrate intake.
[/quote]
Exactly. Carb intake should be correlated with energy expenditure imo.
Regarding fats. I like the ideas of John Meadows regarding saturates and their effects on cell function. It seems that it may be a double edged sword however. I think saturates can really help your physique, I am unsure however of the long term effects regarding CVD. Pros vs Cons I supposed.
People always give examples of tribes like the inuits that ate a shit load of meat/fat/blubber/etc and were extrememly healthy w/ minimal CVD. HOWEVER. These studies can be misinterpreted as these tribes were eating saturates from sea creatures (good fats,ie.fish oil). So is there a diff between high protein/fat (from sea creatures) and high protein/fat (from land animals)? I believe so…
And roon, heres some food for thought. Ancient man (neanderthals + Cro Magnon) (before industrial rev – refined grains, commercial foods, etc) thrived for maaaaaaany more years than modern man currently has, eating a paleo diet. We havent been eating grains for very long if you look at the timeline. Now if we can last as long as they did and continue to improve, then yes, I will agree with you that these changes are acceptable. But we have a looooong way to go. I love discussing these types of things So that blip you’re speaking of might be longer than you may think.
There is still research being done on long term effect. I just wrote a paper for a graduate class regarding this. John Meadows does have some informed great opinions.
Roon12-
I see where you are coming from with the paleolithic comment. This was a time that is considered “prehistory”. But with the “we are not cavemen why should we eat like them” I am going to have to disagree.
Evidence of the switch to agriculture is not seen until about 8000 BC during the neolithic time period in the middle east. This is about 10,000 years ago. Although anatomy can evolve in that time period it takes longer than a few thousand years for physiology to change (unless you consider forms of bacteria).
The quarternary period is when modern humans (homo sapiens) enter the picture and they begin by following a paleo diet. There are many theories on why man switched to agriculture, many involve thoughts on survival (increasing populations and animal shortages), comfort, or weather changes. IMO this is not enough time to change “how caveman eat” and I think we would have involved digestive enzymes to help with all types of grains. Nate Miyaki has done some fine research on this.
For the record I largely agree with the idea of carbs around training, but I also like discussing this stuff
However I have to disagree with the idea of the agricultural switch occurring 10,000 years ago for several reasons. The first being that it assumes all people followed similar dietary habits regardless of location, which seems to be a rather romanticised view of paleolithic man. Secondly, and more conclusively, recent research has shown evidence of reliance on grasses as early as 105,000 years ago with plant processing evident 30,000 years ago.
h0nkey46, I agree that the survival of ancient man shows that we CAN survive following their diet but that doesn’t mean we necessarily have to. They also survived without modern medicine, the internet, cellphones etc but no-one seems to be in a hurry to give them up.
Ya I would be willing to bet that the switch was due to comfort reasons. With increased brain capacity, groups were able to form and civilization would have started. Agriculture diminishes the need to follow animal herds around. Making life much easier, SAFER, and food shortages is less of a concern. Grains are great for large civilizations, preventing famine. However a buffalo grazing on grass is better for the environment, as well as our health.
Anyone ever looked into the effects of corn affecting soil quality. Let’s think about this. We are wasting perfectly good soil on corn. Fucking Corn. Profit hungry humans…
I agree with you also, the human body is the greatest machine on Earth, so lucky for us, we can survive on a variety of different diets. I personally want to be the best I can be, both physique wise and health. So by going back to ancient man, I am able to break everything down to what I think makes sense rather than taking somebody’s word for it.
I’m gonna take a look at those links. What a great sunday. Laker/Celtic game and this discussion.
So what is your philosophy regarding diet roon? balanced? high protein, medium fat medium carbs?
I could see location playing a role. In a plains area where grasslands would be present, It would be possible that eventually some bonehead would accidentally find a way to cultivate/make digestible, then passing the information on. However where were these tools found? Like exactly where. Is it buried in earths crust where it is easy to distinguish the time period? Or in a cave where it is hard to say how old the tools are?
This might be completely ignorant. But is it possible that they were grinding organic materiel for other reasons? Painting? Making different colors. Just a thought? Is there evidence that this was done for food? And was it done successfully? Again, without proper process, grains are not digestible. However this is a long stretch, I’m just playing devils advocate at this point.
