This post is not meant to be a knock on 5/3/1, as I absolutely love the program, and also not an attempt to gain compliments or anything like that.
I’m trying to determine whether my numbers would still be considered beginner numbers, and if so am thinking of switching to something more like a linear program and then returning to 5/3/1 when my numbers are up. I love 5/3/1 and think it’s a great program, but I am just trying to get the most out of my lifts whilst I’m still relatively young (24) so I can work from a solid strength base.
Height - 6ft2
Weight - 100kg/220lds (carrying quite a bit of body fat)
Deadlight -155kg/341lbs x1
Squat - 82.5kg/181lbs x7*
Bench - 95kg/209lbs x3
Press - 62.5kg/137lbs x3
*My squat numbers are higher than the rest as I’m recovering from a knee injury, and based on what I lifted after returning, 82.5kg was my max for 1s week - could probably lift more for less reps but don’t want to rush it due to the injury.
If these are still rookie numbers, do you think I would benefit from putting some singles in my workouts instead of switching my whole routing to linear?
I’m not sure how much more you’re hoping to get out of linear progression, but I wouldn’t expect much out of it.
Additionally, IMO high frequency programs like SS or SL basically cause you to “peak”… and once you switch to more moderate frequency intermediate programming the peak wears off and you have to reset your lifts much lower. It’s very humbling when you don’t listen to Jim and do the 90% of your max thing only to have your soul crushed when you start failing lifts a few months later.
The key element that I think most people miss is “time”. It takes time to grow but everyone wants results now. Jim once said that after about 10 years your bench press really starts to improve… I haven’t been in this game that long but the longer I’m in it the more I think I understand the time aspect.
If you were to look at my TMs over the last year you’d think I was making zero progress, but over this time I’ve lost 1" off my hips and and 2" off my waist while basically maintaining size my chest, legs and arms. I look thicker, and despite the relatively stagnant TM I recently worked my squat up to a 405 single (my TM at the time was 315). I have zero doubt that if I were to start force feeding myself and spend the next month peaking that I’d blow my old PRs out of the water… but that’s not my goal right now. I’m totally content building a base and trying to hold onto what gains I can as I slowly work my way down to 15% BF.
I would ask why you’re concerned with having “rookie” numbers and why you’re lifting? Are you looking to compete or do you want to be fit? Lose weight? Be strong? If you compare your numbers to a seasoned 220 powerlifter then they’re pretty low, but why compare yourself to them unless you’re aiming to break their records at a meet? You seem to be in a rush to bring your numbers up so my question is why?
[quote]
but I am just trying to get the most out of my lifts whilst I’m still relatively young (24) so I can work from a solid strength base [/quote]
Don’t be concerned with age, you’re not too old yet. In 5 years you won’t be too old. In 10 years you won’t be too old, and if you stick with 5/3/1 in 10 years you can actually break those records if you want to.
My advice is figure out what you want to get out of your lifting, find out what program works best for you and stick with it.
From the man himself:
"While it may seem counterintuitive to take weight off the bar when the goal is to add weight to it, starting lighter allows you more room to progress forward. This is a very hard pill to swallow for most lifters. They want to start heavy and they want to start now. This is nothing more than ego, and nothing will destroy a lifter faster, or for longer, than ego.
This ties in with starting light, and it keeps lifters who want to get big and strong yesterday from sabotaging their own progress. People want a program that will add 40 pounds to their bench in eight weeks. When I ask how much their bench went up in the last year, they hang their heads in shame.
5/3/1 is set up to allow you to break a variety of repetition records throughout the year. Notice that it’s “rep records” and not “one-rep max.” Most people live and die by their one-rep max. To me, this is foolish and short sighted. If your squat goes from 225 x 6 to 225 x 9, you’ve gotten stronger."
[quote]Haldor wrote:
I would ask why you’re concerned with having “rookie” numbers and why you’re lifting? Are you looking to compete or do you want to be fit? Lose weight? Be strong? If you compare your numbers to a seasoned 220 powerlifter then they’re pretty low, but why compare yourself to them unless you’re aiming to break their records at a meet? You seem to be in a rush to bring your numbers up so my question is why?
[/quote]
I just want to be strong - I’m not planning on competing in power lifting but I’d like to be in a position where I’d do moderately well if I were to compete.
Thanks for the advice guys it’s been very eye opening
If you like 5/3/1 and you feel like you can buy-in to those training principles and commit to it, then by all means go for it. Grab Beyond 5/3/1, read-up and do it.
From your post I assume you are currently doing 531 and are considering switching to linear, and then back again? Honestly bro, don’t bother chopping and changing. If you’re already in 531 just keep at it and the results will follow.
I’d definitely throw some singles in there. I find they are great for building confidence going in to the third week of each cycle. Plus heavy singles are fun and awesome.
I’ll chime in to agree with what everyone else is saying, and add to it. Don’t worry about testing your 1RM’s unless you’re competing, but if you want to do heavy singles or triples, buy the ‘beyond’ book and check out joker sets. I did straight 5/3/1 for 6 months, and then bought ‘beyond’ and incorporated joker sets on my 3’s and 1’s week, and it did 2 things for me:
It took care of my fix for wanting to lift heavier weights when I feel good.
It reinforced the lesson that you don’t have to lift maximal weights to get stronger. I’m beating my ‘training max’ on triples on the joker sets, which shows that the program works as written. The first 6 months, for example, I didn’t press anything heavier than 135, and 2 weeks ago I hit 1x175 on my joker presses, and this week I hit 3x160. My training max for press is 155…
I know I don’t NEED the joker sets to get stronger, but it seems to satisfy my desire to see heavy weight on the bar, and keeps me from getting bored with the program and doing something stupid and hurting myself. Stick with it, and try jokers if you need a fix of heavier stuff.
Lastly, you’re almost to the weights where you would want to switch off a linear program anyway, so stick with what you’re doing. I’m old (50 in January), and I’ve been doing 5/3/1 for eight cycles, my training max has gone up 80# in squat and deadlift, 60# on bench and 40# on press, and my actual maxxes are much higher. I definitely don’t consider that to be slow progress.
Yes, still beginner numbers, but that’s not all that important as long as you keep progressing.
5/3/1 IS linear–don’t let the unload week confuse you or get too caught up in the “waving”. If you bump your training max every time, the weights on your second cycle are heavier than your first cycle–seems pretty linear to me.
Consider some form of BBB. You’re most likely at the point that you simply need more (and more frequent) reps of squat, bench, deadlift and press
the only numbers that matter are YOURS stick to the plan 5-3-1 it works because if you were to compete it is only you and the weights and nobody else, I will repeat what everyone else has said TIME it will come