5/3/1 or Starting Strength?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Jim Wendler 5/3/1 Coaching
1

Hi guys, this is my first time posting so apologies if this may have been covered before.

I’ve been going to the gym for a while but only recently (within the last year) began using barbells seriously; mainly due to my local gym being “health” rather than “strength” based, if that makes sense.

I’ve heard great review about both of these programs, am currently using 5/3/1 but was speaking to a guy at the gym recently and he said I’d probably be better off on Starting Strength due to my lifts.

My 5/3/1 training maxes are as follows:

Deadlift - 302lbs
Squat - 210lbs
Bench - 176lbs
Press - 110lbs

Before I started 5/3/1 I was finding it difficult to add weight to my lifts, which is why I think Starting Strength might not be suitable to me because of the frequency of adding weight to each lift - I think the slow progression on 5/3/1 would suit me better, but to be honest my max lifts aren’t really much weight in the grand scheme of things anyway, so not sure which would be the best option for me?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

2

Doesn’t matter where you are with your lifts in regards of training max… Read the book. Follow as written an enjoy breaking PRs. Simple as that. You are on a 5/3/1 forum anyone who doesn’t give it the nod would be a hypocrite.

3

Are you currently using 5/3/1? And if so, are you getting stronger?

4

If it ain’t broke…

5

SL5x5 is a straight linear progression method, so it’s fine to use to start with but it has limited potential. 5/3/1 is a training system that will set you up for long-term success. Whether you start with 5/3/1 5’s beginner and then move into Boring But Big you can’t go wrong. Using the concept of a training max makes for solid training progression.

6

I’d stay the course with 5/3/1, you won’t be disappointed.

7

There is a camp that believes you should milk linear progression programs as much as you can. Personally, I would never choose a more advanced program if I could still make gains on a faster novice program.

===

Starting Strength has you add 5# every workout.

Some 5x5s have you add 5# every week.

5/3/1 has you add 5# a month.

8

Jaynick77 wrote;

SL5x5 is a straight linear progression method, so it’s fine to use to start with but it has limited potential. 5/3/1 is a training system that will set you up for long-term success. Whether you start with 5/3/1 5’s beginner and then move into Boring But Big you can’t go wrong. Using the concept of a training max makes for solid training progression.

Please elaborate, love to here this explained further, so 5x5 is linear progression, and what kind of progression do you think 531 is. I’m interested to here this.

Op both are great programs, with proven track records, but since your on 531, and know this system, I’d recomend staying, but you can’t go wrong either way. Hopefully Jay will explain the differance between these programs progression wise, and we can all learn somthing. Goodluck

9

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Jaynick77 wrote;

SL5x5 is a straight linear progression method, so it’s fine to use to start with but it has limited potential. 5/3/1 is a training system that will set you up for long-term success. Whether you start with 5/3/1 5’s beginner and then move into Boring But Big you can’t go wrong. Using the concept of a training max makes for solid training progression.

Please elaborate, love to here this explained further, so 5x5 is linear progression, and what kind of progression do you think 531 is. I’m interested to here this.

Op both are great programs, with proven track records, but since your on 531, and know this system, I’d recomend staying, but you can’t go wrong either way. Hopefully Jay will explain the differance between these programs progression wise, and we can all learn somthing. Goodluck
[/quote]

Generally LP programs simply progress in a linear fashion, you bench 200, next week 205, the following 210, etc. while 5/3/1 takes an entire cycle to truly “increase”(though you may get stronger faster than your number indicate), and your lifts are not simply increasing linearly in a certain rep range indefinitely.

Original Poster, you might as well stay the course on 5/3/1, its a fantastic program. You might progress a little faster for a limited period on LP(also nice, and a little easier on the ego), but in the grand scheme of things, its only going to be a few months +/- in progression. You are set up to train(and progress!) for YEARS with 5/3/1, and can modify it in a myriad of different ways. In 3 years you will likely be lifting the exact same amount, regardless if you stay on 5/3/1, or go to LP for a short period, and return to 5/3/1.

10

Thanks for all the advice guys, I’m only currently on the first phase of 5/3/1 so can’t really comment on any strength gains yet; I’ll probably post an update in a few months.

Everything you’ve all said has been very useful though, thanks for the help!

11

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Jaynick77 wrote;

SL5x5 is a straight linear progression method, so it’s fine to use to start with but it has limited potential. 5/3/1 is a training system that will set you up for long-term success. Whether you start with 5/3/1 5’s beginner and then move into Boring But Big you can’t go wrong. Using the concept of a training max makes for solid training progression.

Please elaborate, love to here this explained further, so 5x5 is linear progression, and what kind of progression do you think 531 is. I’m interested to here this.

Op both are great programs, with proven track records, but since your on 531, and know this system, I’d recomend staying, but you can’t go wrong either way. Hopefully Jay will explain the differance between these programs progression wise, and we can all learn somthing. Goodluck
[/quote]

I don’t recall what type of progression 5/3/1 is, Dave Tate actually had a name for it (Waved Progression?) in an article early this year / last year, go look it up dick. Does the progression type of 5/3/1 really even fucking matter? I pointed out the type for SL5x5 just to make a point because it’s pretty well documented that linear methods have very real limitations. Hell, even the damn spreadsheet for SL5x5 where you input your numbers has a formula in it that indicates if you’re lifts are too strong to use with the program. Why use a program with limitations and then switch to something else? Seems like a waste of time.

12

I would stay on 5/3/1, and consider either the full body template or Boring But Big. If you get strong quickly like a novice, just do a higher percentage on the 5x10 sets of Boring But Big. In any case, it is a great program and will serve you well.

13

[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
There is a camp that believes you should milk linear progression programs as much as you can. Personally, I would never choose a more advanced program if I could still make gains on a faster novice program.

===

Starting Strength has you add 5# every workout.

Some 5x5s have you add 5# every week.

5/3/1 has you add 5# a month.[/quote]

This has to be the biggest misconception about 5/3/1 I see out there, the whole “it only adds 5-10 pounds to your max a month”

It adds 5 pounds to weight you are basing your percentages off it (the training max)… That doesn’t mean you will only gain 5 pounds of strength in that month. You might gain 20 pounds, you might gain 5, and if you are very advanced you might not gain any. Do you think a 900 pound squatter is going to add 120 pounds to his Squat this year?

Just because your training max goes from 200 to 205 doesnt mean 205 is your new 1RM. There are many examples online of people using 5/3/1 and gaining well more than the 5-10 pounds per month.

Again, it just adjusts your training weights, it does not predict how much strength you will gain.

Now, that is NOT to say that something like SS or a 5x5 routine will be better/worse than 5/3/1 for certain training populations, because a more aggressive approach to loading may be beneficial for some people.

14

My understanding was that Coan-Karwowski-Kaz based they’re training on linear progression they’re whole careers, I guess back before people knew better, so I just wanted to here it explained a little futher, your rational behind your advice, sorry if I upset anyone. I’m always open to learning new idea’s opinions on training, after 20yrs of being a trainer, I still learn somthing new every day, thats what makes it fun. Again didn’t mean to ruffel any feather’s, just like to here different people’s thoughts, on different types of training, my bad :slight_smile:

15

“Beginner gains” and all that BS is the biggest myth to hit strength training since the popularity of KB’s. One thing I’m grateful for is that when I began lifting there was no such misinformation. One of the dumbest things one can do is race to the finish line - all it does is fuck up your overall progress for the next couple years.

16

Thanks Jim, ruin all my fun, getting guys to explain in detail things they have no clue about, but they read somwhere, so it has to be true. Oh well it was fun while it lasted. Goodluck OP, your on the right track, I was just having a little fun. Latter

17

Choose appropriate statement and it will tell you the best thing to do:

  1. You want to run 5/3/1: just do it.
  2. You’re unsure about running 5/3/1: don’t do it. You have to buy in to your training program.
18

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
There is a camp that believes you should milk linear progression programs as much as you can. Personally, I would never choose a more advanced program if I could still make gains on a faster novice program.

===

Starting Strength has you add 5# every workout.

Some 5x5s have you add 5# every week.

5/3/1 has you add 5# a month.[/quote]

This has to be the biggest misconception about 5/3/1 I see out there, the whole “it only adds 5-10 pounds to your max a month”

It adds 5 pounds to weight you are basing your percentages off it (the training max)… That doesn’t mean you will only gain 5 pounds of strength in that month. You might gain 20 pounds, you might gain 5, and if you are very advanced you might not gain any. Do you think a 900 pound squatter is going to add 120 pounds to his Squat this year?

Just because your training max goes from 200 to 205 doesnt mean 205 is your new 1RM. There are many examples online of people using 5/3/1 and gaining well more than the 5-10 pounds per month.

Again, it just adjusts your training weights, it does not predict how much strength you will gain.

Now, that is NOT to say that something like SS or a 5x5 routine will be better/worse than 5/3/1 for certain training populations, because a more aggressive approach to loading may be beneficial for some people.[/quote]

That’s where the whole 5+, 3+, and 1+ come in. Even though you are only adding 5 lbs if you go from doing 265 for 5 reps to doing 275 for 7 reps in two cycles, that is more than 10 lbs of strength gain.

19

Yeah, but no one does that. Heck I would LOVE to even get 5-10 lbs every cycle.

or every 3 cycles.

20

[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
Yeah, but no one does that. Heck I would LOVE to even get 5-10 lbs every cycle.

or every 3 cycles.[/quote]
I am giving you personal experience of what I did.