Dr. Power Clean. It would be interesting if you have read Dr. John Sarno (Professor of Rehabilitation Therapy at NYU Medical School). After many years of clinical practice, he came to the conclusion that most orthopedists were basing their diagnoses of back ailment on crock! He takes a quasi-freudian approach to treating most back ailments now. Given your background, it would be interesting for you to review his work and report back. Who knows?! It might give you some food for thought. It certainly helped me get over my back pains. Check it out:
Entheogens,
I’ve known about Dr. Sarno for many years, and have his book. Trust me, when you go through a chronic pain syndrome and nobody seems to know what the hell is going on, you seek out answers almost anywhere.
My thoughts on Sarno. I believe he is correct in his opinions that many people have strong, subconscious factors leading to or exacerbating their pain. I don't agree with his rather bold statements (I recall when I first read his stuff, he adamantly claimed 95% of back pain patients were related to emotional issues and not orthopedic problems.)
Pain often, OFTEN has secondary gain issues, whereby the pain leads to something the sufferer wants, such as attention, time off, sympathy, mood-altering meds, and many others. This sounds bad, but it happens to good people who don't mean to have these hidden drives. This is important to sort out when pain can't seem to be eliminated.
In my case, when the first ten docs or so told me all sorts of crap, I questioned my own possible hidden or unconscious motives. I believe my back pain was 80% due to the trauma caused by my accident combined with some preexisting degeneration. However, I believe 20% was my back psychologically breaking from the overload of a job and life which literally was crushing me.
How did I come up with these percentages? It helps to take yourself out of your life situation entirely, take a sabbatical, change everything, enjoy life, enjoy those you love, and see how the pain changes. After all of that, my pain only decreased by twenty percent. The diskectomy which removed the long-missed herniated discs did far more to relieve my pain. So I can only go with Sarno so far.
Good post question though. Everyone with chronic pain should read Sarno to assess how much emotional factors might be involved. Doc
Hi Doctor, great thread you’ve got going here. My heart goes out to you about the back pain, your the same age as my father and he walks around like a cripple most days because of it. You mentioned in my log thread your now on an alkaline diet, so if I may ask, are you still eating grains? I have come to learn they are very inflammatory and acidic, as well as fattening.
I personally have cut them out of my own diet completely, no corn, no wheat, no rice or any other or any products made from them. Now, I am only 32 but I have a lot of years of straight Olympic-lifting under my belt, and we both know how that seems to effect one like dog years, but since I’ve committed myself to no more grains, I have felt really, REALLY good lately.
Good enough that I am able to max-out on my lifts several times a week now, and without much inflammation to speak of. Its been a very big help to me, so I thought I’d pass it along. Stay strong and focused, you can beat that kid to 300, you’ve already been there, he’s sailing uncharted waters, so you’ve got that edge going for you!!
I REALLY enjoyed your post, Galvatron, and have a lot of respect for you. Although it has been difficult, I have gradually cut out grains from my diet down to near nil. I occassionally eat some small amounts when it comes included in a meal prepared with company and refusing would be rude. And I had concerns for a long time about getting enough fiber, and kept a slice of high fiber bread in there daily. But I cut that slice out recently too. Don’t think I’ll die of colon cancer like they make you think. I’m more impressed with evidence that an alkaline diet is protective against cancer anyway.
I love that in this weird journey I am on in which just pain free normal life has been a near impossible goal, I now can pursue many other goals which make life fun. And these other goals, be it getting my PC back, or getting lean, or OL, or whatever, they all seem to be adding to my quality of life and health. Yes, there are days, like today, after those schizophrenic pulls I did yesterday, without a belt (I forgot it), when my back has a "serious conversation" with me. I listen. But I'm bouncing back faster and better. I'm not sure how much is the fish oil, the overall diet, the glucosamine/MSM/hyaluronic acid, the increased stretching, or what. I don't really care, I just know I am improving and healing. And if that gives hope to anybody out there who suffers daily, then that would make me feel like the "sanest" man on the planet.
Doc
I don’t know if you guys read this blog www.marksdailyapple.com/ but he has some good stuff in it. One article is about grains: Yet Another Half-Baked Grain Study | Mark's Daily Apple
3 years ago I read Dr. Mercola’s “No Grain Diet” and I have been eating less grain ever since. I lost 20 lbs and have kept it off since then. The book has been updated since then. Dr. Mercola's Censored Library (Private Membership) | Dr. Joseph Mercola | Substack
The governments’ have been doing us a big injustice by preaching eating more grains and subsidizing grain production. There is nothing healthy that you get from grains that you can’t get in more abundance from Vegetables, fiber included. Grains are the cause of much that is wrong with the western diet.
I’m on the road for the next few days but I’d like to explore this grain discussion when I get back in November if you guys are interested.
Stu
Interesting reading, Stu. I have been eliminating grains mostly because I also instinctively found it makes it easier to lose weight, plus it is one of the ways to produce a more alkaline state.
I studied nutrition in college and have followed it ever since. I must say it is one of the most conflicted, ever-changing, and confusing areas of science involving the human body. I have learned to stay open-minded, curious, and I don't respond well to dogmatic zealots even if they seem to make a lot of sense. One source I pay no attention to is the government-that is obvious.
While I have bought into the need for a more alkaline state, even there, I can't totally give up many protein sources the alkaline folks suggest, because I want MUSCLE. I can live without grains, although I miss sandwiches and granola, and living down here in Costa Rica I can hardly eat with locals because every meal has rice in it.
Now that I am in this exciting comeback, I view food as fuel and I want the best fuel. When your life is really hard, and just getting by is the most you can hope for, it is easy to say "fuck it!" regarding diet and what is best. I was there for four years, tired of all of my well meaning holistic friends telling me how BAD dairy was, grains, beef and chicken, and then off into cell phones, dental fillings, and on and on. When you're down, you can hear only so much negative news about what is bad.
But now, I'm listening again, trying new things and willing to try others. I'm absolutely convinced now that carbs are a big problem, and I am progressively getting rid of junk carbs, simple carbs, and now grains. But I'm not going to any PROTEST GRAINS rallies. Doc
I was really psyched to train hard today, and took my son to go workout today. World’s was supposed to reopen but was still closed, the gym with the Smithoid machine was closed, and backup gym number two with the rack with real pins was also closed. ARRRGHHHH!!!
I went into a hypogonadal testosterone replacement rage! I banged my fist on the dashboard leaving a dent, cursed and pouted all the way home. My son says to me, in the line of the century:
“Dad, you’re acting emo.”
I couldn’t stop laughing, and did an hour of cardio on my home treadmill to burn off the steam. But I decided I’m getting those rusty weights I have in storage three hours away and I will lift in the yard-whether it’s raining or not. I will not have another day like today. Doc
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
But I decided I’m getting those rusty weights I have in storage three hours away and I will lift in the yard-whether it’s raining or not. I will not have another day like today. Doc[/quote]
That’s the spirit Doc!
OK, here we go, one more funky story about me and my third world gyms. I’ll get my weights tomorrow.
So I go to alternate gym #2, the one with the good rack (not talking about the receptionist). I'm really psyched for a good workout, body feels much better having eaten well the past couple days. I start off with bar, 95, and 135, and it feels like a broomstick. So much so that I go on and rip off five reps of PRESSES on each set. The 5x135 makes me very happy, not just because it feels like nothing, but my bad shoulder feels NORMAL. Rehab is WORKING.
I load 185, remind myself I'm there to do cleans and DL's, and get focused. However, right then, a camara crew from a local TV station comes in, with a hottie reporter. She is doing a segment on increased Tico interest in bodybuilding. Fine, except they set up camp ten feet away from me and tell me I can't make any noise, no yelling or banging/dropping weights. Great. Today was my day to do FLOOR cleans and DL's, not hang or rack. So I have to shift to plan B. I set the pins at just above knee height, and do my reps as follows.
I pick up the weight, walk out three feet, lower the bar to within one inch of the floor, and begin my rep. In this manner, I do 5x185, 3x225, 2x235, and 2x245. I am very pleased with these sets, in part because of the extra stress of the way I did them, but also because my racking is crisp and fast. Not a single rep low or elbows down-the first time since my comeback started.
So I don't risk missing a rep going any higher, and move on to OL DL's. Here, start with bar on floor, but gently lower to an inch again on reps. I do 5x315, 3x365, and then 1x415. On the 415, the weight goes up easy, and I know I have alot more in the tank. But my back, which had started to tighten up with each set of lowering, really starts hurting after gently setting down the 415. I want 450, bad. I try to work out the pain stretching, putting on some emu oil, and using a huge dose of denial. Meanwhile, I get filmed by the camera crew. So I go ahead and load up 450.
I begin the lift, but three inches up, my back completely gives out, with a knife like spasm in the left QL area. The frickin camera’s on me, so I gently lower the bar, smile, and act like I just successfully completed a three inch low pull. I grab my bag and limp out of the area and desperately dive on a stretching pad near the beach balls and writhe in pain.
I pretend to do stretches and crunches for twenty minutes, and the pain subsides enough for me to go back, unload the 450, and get the hell out of the gym.
I know the drill, ice, drown myself in fish oil, BCAA's, my new enzymes, more emu MSM, and anything else I can think of. I will be out 2 days and OK after that.
But I KNOW BETTER. Why do I ignore my body's pain signals? For a guy who scored high on the SAT's, I can be a real dumb fuck.
However, I'm not going emo here. I'm laying down, the pain is lessening, and I'm reflecting on the GREAT news that I pressed today without pain or stiffness for the first time since my surgery. AND, today I racked my cleans like I used to thirty years ago. I'm gonna call it a net plus. Doc
Hey when you start to get your powers back it’s perfectly normal to step on the gas pedal when you know you should brake. You’ll be back before you know it.
I didn’t realize it, but my whole workout yesterday could have been called Romanian, based on what I understand Romanian deadlifts to be. Won’t be repeating it, just think lowering is hazardous.
I am currently in a state of some confusion about the best training program to help my pulls. I realize much of this depends on your priority, OL or PL. But even then there are difference and controversy in both camps. I read about how PL's argue about traditional vs sumo, bent or more straight legged, etc. OL's debate whether deadlifts have a place in OL training, and if they do, when and how to do them.
And then there's the "deadlifts are bad for you back" issue, which I used to believe to some degree. Funny, I'm sitting here with a sore back, but now I don't want to believe it. I don't want to believe ANY primary lift of PL or OL is instrinsically BAD for you. Maybe we might get so injured in a certain area that some lifts need to go-that I believe. But instrinsically dangerous-I remember the ortho's condemning squats twenty years ago-bullshit. Doc
U should know by now not to think. Real men DL, even with bad form. Who cares about OL or PL? At 50, who cares? I’ll sand my callouses off with my stone and I’ll dump it on you.
The heavy emphasis n lowering probably gave you som DOMS that you were not exoecting. Suck it up buttercup.
Stu
A double dose of razzing. I must have deserved it.
But it wasn’t DOMS, Stu. I whined about too much DOMS a month ago. It was a quadratus lumborum spasm-something I used to have daily after my accident. It feels like a charlie horse and lasts a lot longer.
But I'll try and do better not to whine. My main head problem today is worrying I won't be able to train tomorrow because of my back, but I probably will anyway.
And Barry, well, shit, too much thinking on this post already. Goodnight. Doc
WTF is a “charlie horse” Doc?
Is that where you cup your hand and then smack it as hard as you can against the thigh of some unsuspecting soul, creating a loud clapping sound followed shortly thereafter by a red welt and the recipient rolling on the floor holding their leg and calling you all the bastards under the sun?
If I’m right - yeah, that’s painful, if I’m wrong, try this on someone you love today, a great conversation starter… 
Reminds me of words of wisdom from my grandmother… “Remember always, my darling, that being smart is no guarantee against acting stupid.”
My life has pretty much been a testament to the truth of that statement.
I sometimes do things that in retrospect weren’t too smart but often I don’t worry about it because often those situations come about from total involvement in the moment. If I do something stupid because I’m completely in the moment and not thinking about anything, there’s nothing I can do about that and I wouldn’t want to anyway. If I’m lifting and able to analyze what I’m doing at the same time, it means I need to add weight to the bar
Thanks, happydog, that adds sanity to a confusing situation. I preach “being in the moment” to all my clients, yet sometimes in this sport it has its price. So be it.
Duke, am I so fucking ancient that “Charlie horse” disappeared as a term? Tell me you’re kidding.
BTW, I wan’t at all bummed by two posts gently razzing me about what was clearly some whining about my back. I was SERIOUSLY mad at myself. I have a fucked up back, I have already established that and don’t care to repeat the story. What I have learned, from dealing with many, many disabled people, large or small disabilities, is that the SUCCESSFUL ones share one thing in common. THEY DO NOT LOOK AT THEMSELVES AS DISABLED. You must extract yourself out of that victim mentality and view yourself as different, maybe, but not defective or damaged. I have done a pretty good job of this in the past year, but I have relapses. GIve me hell if I have another. Doc
Take care of the back. You’ve got the number if you ever need to talk. Even a crazy Doc needs someone to talk to. People who don’t train or never have been an elite athlete just can’t comprehend what’s in our pea brains. Read my favorite quote again and don’t be afraid to me human. God Bless!
Hey, I found a little sanity today. Made myself a deal. Train, do something productive, but take care of the back. So I did power snatches. Yeah! Yah, I only used 135 for five sets of three, but what the hell, I’m snatching again, and my shoulder didn’t protest. A little stiff, that’s all.
After the snatches, I had a variety of impulses and urges to do various lifts which would involve hundreds of pounds, but I repressed those urges for another day.
Maybe there's hope for me yet. Doc
You’re making progress. Good for you.
I’m sure your curerent back issue was too much too soon. I’ll probably do the same next week. I’ve had the flu lately and haven’t been in the gym for a little while and I can’t stand it.
You must be some old to use terms like “charlie horse”. I’m of the opinion that dehydration can play a role in it. I get them from time to time in my calves, usually after a long walk, especially if it’s a weight load march. Sometime’s I get them just by turning my foot the wrong way. I think in that case it’s a pinched nerve. There may be some mechanical reason for your event. You’ll probably see a patern emerge.
For those kids out there there are 2 definitions for “Charlie horse”.
Stu