Am I Crazy???

Training Over 35 Lifter
61

Doc,

Hear me: I was just like you. My shoulder injury ended my powerlifting career a long time ago and I spent about 10 years wading through bullshit workouts at the gym. Entering the military got me into calisthenics, things led to things and I found crossfit.

One thing I can’t shout loud enough about high volume/intensity functional movement is… joint lube. All of my joints have been reborn. To boot, all of the small stabilizing muscles (including my core) that I was sure low rep heavy lifts strengthened, finally got strong. I stand more erect, easier, sit with much better posture, and generally carry myself much more efficiently. Once you try it, you’ll be addicted. I think we have similar weightlifting obsessions.
On the plus side, my max lifts either increased or remained static. Unless you are already at olympian standards, it will also occur with you.

I was in a position to try this little experiment on a large group of people, and to date, over 3000 trained in this fashion with similar results. So yeah, it does work. More importantly, I need this type of fitness for my job. One warning: if you do attempt: the breakin period is a son-of-a-bitch, but worth the transition.

Al

[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
That’s very interesting. I’ve always been a low rep/set guy, and even when I use weight less than 50% of my single rep max and try to do a high rep set, I peter out quickly after 13-15 reps, even less with cleans. That either means I’m fast twitch dominant, or have never been conditioned for muscular endurance. Both, probably.

 I am going to try some of the higher volume stuff because I can tell at my age my body is not recovering like I expect it too as I am now getting back to heavier weights. If I continue my old school style of maximal power training with high weight/low rep (2-6) sets, I will have to take three days rest a week minimum.

Two questions-first, how much has this style of training helped your single rep PR’s, and second, how does your body recover from this form of intensity training?

And do you do it more because you love it, or because it works?

By the way, I'm not a gym addict, I love to challenge myself in other ways. My son and I like to go on nature hikes, and last month we climbed our first mountain, Mt. Chirripo in Costa Rica. Damn near killed me, but it was an awesome experience. While I was climbing, I thought to myself that cardio training on gym machines is really useless in the real world.[/quote]
62

Already at Olympian standards…HAH! I’m sitting out on a long branch of a crooked tree, and both the branch and the tree could break any second. Translated, now I could power clean 300, but so what? So what that I once did 420? I can’t jerk anything now, shit today was the first day I could handle a bar behind my neck for push presses with 95. My back feels like it’s held together with tape and glue, and when I deadlifted the other day I almost fainted from fear of rupturing something. I’m squatting weights ninth graders can do, and my knees sound like popping corn afterward.

 I doing what I know, and I know how to get very strong. But I also know these were techniques that worked for me when I was in my early twenties. I HAVE to accomodate age and injury, and I seem to want to live in some blissful denial of that while I crawl up the numbers game in both PL and OL lifts. Yes it's a passionate thing to comeback in a sport you love, but its all too easy to get seduced by your own ego chasing numbers that somehow made you feel good about yourself.

So brother, preach on, the congregation is listening. You had me already with two words today, "Joint Lube."
BTW, the old dog here is trying to learn new tricks. Once I felt the push presses were "allowed" by my left shoulder, I didn't automatically throw on 135 like a robot. I left it at 95 and did one of your "complex" sets of 30 and another of 20. Most intense blood rush to my delts that I can remember, felt like shot puts on my shoulders.                Thanks, Doc
63

Doc,
Do you have access to any kettlebells? Do you have any pull ups? Do you run?

To organize it in your mind, it’s a mix of oly/powerlifting (with a lean towards the quicker lifts), to include any kettlebell/extra load work like andyS was describing; calisthenics such as, dips, pull ups (the two biggies), BW squats, push ups, sit ups, etc…; and sprint type running, ie, 100m, 200, 400, 800, 1600, etc…

Use weightlifting for cardio (27 x 135lb p cleans), use sprints for anaerobic work (10-15 repeats of 100m) and mix and match those with one or two calisthenics movements to allow for thousands of different workouts ranging from 6-40min. Rest minimum (enough to keep from passing out), and drop all of what you thought you knew - except how to build strength, this still applies. Some days will see you doing nothing but one or two lifts for singles or doubles. Some days will have you blind, deaf, and dumb from the sheer intensity.

And your comment about the “real” climb and how gym climbers do not translate into that, is exactly what is meant by the term “functional fitness”. What you do in the gym, basement, or garage should directly affect and improve how you move in 3-space. This is exactly why this style of training is so widespread in an Army currently at war.

Hope this helps-Al

64

My bad… “crossfit.com”

Check out this site for months of edible surfing.

-Al

65

Al, your second post answered my first question today.

 This morning my left shoulder is screaming, the kind of pain fish oils and wondder herbs won't touch. Pain pill time. It's just telling me I wasn't quite ready for intense push presses. I know the drill, it'll ease off over two days if I let it.

 I guess since folks on T-Nation seem interested in my comeback, and probably not so much in just another training log. Here's a summary of my mental meanderings. It has helped me sort out my neuroses and obsessions related specifically to the weight game. I don't know how many of you out there can relate, but the truth of the matter is in my life apart from weight training, body image and related issues, I actually manage to function quite well.

But for most peoplem, the passion for the weight game engenders conflicts, and conflicts create neurosis. Conflicts between what you dream of achieving and what is actually possible, conflicts with work and family needs, conflicts with how much money to spend on supplements, training gear and so forth, and on and on.

 And then I have these me-specific conflicts. Such as figuring out preferred training methods, OL vs PL preferences, and still glancing at the mirror sometimes and wishing I looked like Arnold in his prime, etc.

In psychoanalytic training, we were taught to find a patient's "conflict-free sphere of existence," the place in one's mind where one lives at peace. Everyone has one, but it is sometimes buried under tons of self-destructive or illogical thinking.

 I think of this from time to time. People sometimes have more than one "sphere." Weight training, in my twenties, was my best. Throwing the shot and disc were not. Because I was a scholarship athlete, I had pressure to perform, to win. Also, I knew down deep I might claw my way up to Olympic levels, but not win at that level.

I competed with and knew several Olympic champions, like Al Oerter, and they all had this gifted explosive torque building movement in the ring that I could never match, even though I was stronger than many of them.

I believe it is both healthy and human nature to want to retreat to one's "sphere's." I've had others, playing music (piano) is one of them, favorite activities with my family, etc. But heavy weight training was the best one. Time stood still, I thought of nothing else, and before I knew it the workouts were over and I was spent.

But now, age, injuries and hormone deficiencies have made it a highly conflicted sphere. I must now figure out how to remove the conflicts in order to fully enjoy the training and not hurt myself doing it.

 So what do I do? Things are getting in better focus. For starters, training with my son is enjoyable, pure and rewarding, and I will not jeopardize that relationship with training methods that would make it impossible for us to workout together. Being a mentor during his first year of training is so important, my "mentor" during my first year of training was Weider's magazines and Iron Man.

Second, rebuilding my body so that it is maximally functional in the real world is critical. Being a power clean freak show while being unable to run two miles right now is insanity and not what I want.

 Next, the call of the big numbers in OL and PL will not be denied. So I can appease that beast by re-conditioning my body over this next year, becoming fully well and strong in joints, cartilage and tendon support. I must balance out my grossly unbalanced musculature as much as I can, focusing on my weak lower body, improve my muscular endurance greatly, and become an athlete again.

 And lastly, I need to sort out this whole HRT thing, figure out if I can get off of it, do what I can to maximize my body's hormone output, or come to terms with it if it is what I need to have a normal, vital life.

 Only if and when I succeed at doing all of the above should I dream of reentering the sphere of competitive lifting. Only then will that sphere be relatively free of conflict again. 

  Thanks to all who have supported me and encouraged me. This thread is starting to feel a bit too self-indulgent, and I'll keep it going only if others want me too. I'm a private guy by nature, and I look back at this thread and feel like a complete idiot at some of the things I've writen. If I can help some folks with my psychiatric background, I'll continue to do that as much as I can.

 Either way, I know what I need to do now. Later.                     Doc
66

Doc, I love your posts, please don’t stop. Our backgrounds are different although as mentioned earlier we have some similarities, mainly age and kids. I was never athletic but always managed to stay in reasonable shape without too much effort.

I rejoined the Army about 10 years ago, at an age when most were retiring, and discovered that what I was doing was insufficient. I now discover that I like playing with weights, the bigger the better. I’ll never push the wieght that you were used to and I know that’s just the way I’m built.

One thing I’ve learned is that you need to find out what your weakness is and make that your strength. I think that’s the main point of Crossfit. There are many different types of fitness. Crossfit attempts to hit them all. Find out what you’re bad at and start working on that.

Stu

67

There are some people who are over 50 who are in the best shape of their lives. I think that’s a wonderful thing, but these folks probably were not athletes when they were young.

I am 53, and play women’s rugby, but I was in my best shape of my life in my 20’s when I was an athlete.

Even though I tell myself that I’m the best I can be “for my age”, that really does not satisfy my ego. Because I ain’t now what I once was, and there’s nothing I can do about it.

And that’s a bitch.

But it sure helps to know that I can come here and read your posts. At our age,the physical game can only change up when our mental game catches up with our bodies. In my head, I’m still 23 years old, until my body gives my brain a harsh reminder.

I guess I don’t have one of those “conflict-free zones” anywhere in my brain. Really. They must have removed it during surgery.

68

Thanks for the sentiments. I need a conflict free sphere for the weekend, STAT. Not only tired out from ranting about T robbers on my other thread, but frustrated at the medical community and the government.
Before you yawn, this is relevant to T-Nation. The issue has surfaced in many posts and many different threads. The future of doctors being true allies in the quest for optimal hormonal health faces huge challenges. The AMA refuses to accept “age management medicine,” with or without HRT, as a legitimate subspecialty.

The DEA views testosterone as solely a drug of abuse and posts their progress against doctors as if they are catching Columbian drug lords.
Medical schools have no clue what to teach their students on the issue at this time, or which specialty should address it (endocrinologists, urologists, OB/Gyn, internal medicine???)
Doctors who want to be supportive of people struggling with symptomatic hormonal deficiencies will face increasing pressures and scrutiny. Only the strong will survive.
Ah, but such is life. I love the fact that the word “strong” refers to both physical strength and strength of character. As we make our bodies strong, we cannot help but toughen our minds and our resolve.
Have a great weekend! Doc

69

So you’re just getting back into weights recently and, if I read you right, are going to begin to throw in some sprints, jumps, throws, pull ups, and dips???

Great. You will see improvement across the board as your energy systems adapt. Log all of your times and your scales so you can see improvement on paper. Coming from a weightlifting background gives you a headstart over someone who either never exercised or only ran, biked or swam.

Keep your head into it, puke and move on, and I guarantee results of functional fitness as well as bio-regeneration. You may even be able to come off the HRT. Remember what brought me to this thread? My diet of high fat/low carb combined with this brand of high intensity exercise definitely brought my hormone levels back up.

Good luck.
-Al

70

Hey guys, I’m back. Had a great weekend, got out of the funk I was in Friday. Did several things that were more “firsts” for me in my comeback. Did sprints-man, I used to LOVE doing sprints. Felt good, didn’t push it too hard, cause I remember what hamstring pulls are like.

Then, on Sunday I started my workout with some SNATCHES. My left shoulder was finally loose enough to "allow" them. I don't love snatches, but it sure felt good to be ABLE to do them again. Did a combination of 20 reps with 95, then carefully ventured up to 5x135 and 3x155.

After that, I did some cleans. Worked up to 3x225, 1x255 and 1x275, all easy. My left shoulder spasmed after the 275 and I called it a day. I took a video of the 275 to see my technique. It was not too good, but about what I expected. 

I almost put the video on my bio, but I felt weird about it-I hear so much about "don't put your pictures on the internet." I can't see the harm in it, an old fart doing an exercise nobody cares about. But anybody else feel this way?

Maybe I somehow feel "guilty" about the HRT, even though my new T level is 552, just mid normal. I resent the fact that I needed it, as it goes against my grain, and I am sure I will try to do without it in the future. 
But I have to step back and realize, it was the catalyst which got me back in the game. 
Anyway, the comeback continues...
71

Random thoughts from a Random Mind, Part II.

  1. Now that I am enlightened, should I go more crossfit, get really strong with those Westside PL splits, focus more Olympic with Staley EDT, or go more total body workouts like Heavythrower?

  2. Is one protein powder REALLY that much better than another?

  3. Once I get really healthy, what is more important, to get as strong as possible, or to get to 9% bodyfat?

  4. Ignore #3, strength is everything.

  5. I can’t believe I’ve told the whole world my nuts don’t work.

  6. Heavy metal music works best for Heavy Iron lifting, especially Godsmack.

  7. I’m really sorry, you well meaning folks out there who suggested it, but I really don’t want to lift tires.

  8. Insomnia’s a bitch, especially if you go past Craig Ferguson and you’re wide awake.

  9. I really can’t justify being a 300 pound superheavyweight at over 50, even though I know I’d lift a lot more if I gained 60 pounds.

  10. Don’t even think about it.

  11. Man, it would be fun eating like I was twenty again.

  12. I do have a wife, and our vows include no infidelity and no obesity.

72

Doc~
I love when you ramble!

As for your #1. Why can’t you do one day of each “type” of lifting? Or 6-10 weeks of a program of each?

#7. You only say you don’t want to flip tires because you haven’t tried it! It’s addicting. And this coming from a 125lb female who LOVES to flip my 350 :slight_smile:

#11 - yeah, i agree. I have so many damn food issues now. If only i had known…

#12. i think i love your wife too. Wait, that didn’t come across right. Anyway, we have the same vows in our marriage.

Have a great day :slight_smile:

Shelle

73

[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Random thoughts from a Random Mind, Part II.

  1. Now that I am enlightened, should I go more crossfit, get really strong with those Westside PL splits, focus more Olympic with Staley EDT, or go more total body workouts like Heavythrower?

  2. Is one protein powder REALLY that much better than another?

  3. Once I get really healthy, what is more important, to get as strong as possible, or to get to 9% bodyfat?

  4. Ignore #3, strength is everything.

  5. I can’t believe I’ve told the whole world my nuts don’t work.

  6. Heavy metal music works best for Heavy Iron lifting, especially Godsmack.

  7. I’m really sorry, you well meaning folks out there who suggested it, but I really don’t want to lift tires.

  8. Insomnia’s a bitch, especially if you go past Craig Ferguson and you’re wide awake.

  9. I really can’t justify being a 300 pound superheavyweight at over 50, even though I know I’d lift a lot more if I gained 60 pounds.

  10. Don’t even think about it.

  11. Man, it would be fun eating like I was twenty again.

  12. I do have a wife, and our vows include no infidelity and no obesity.[/quote]

  13. Everything works, nothing works forever. Generally I try and make myself do whatever it is I don’t want to do.

  14. Yes, it makes a difference to me. I don’t know all the science behind it but tastes better and that is enuf, LOL

  15. Both HAHA

  16. No argument there, Could there be a better squat song then 'I Stand Alone"

  17. The reason the Ex wife is now the “EX” wife.

74

Thanks, Shelle, I think rambling is good for me. It’s kind of like being a psychoanalytic patient, just blurting out what’s on my mind. My thread is my couch, and T-Nation is my shrink. OHHH, that’s a bit scary. But I’ll keep rambling, maybe two sets a week.

And as for the tires, that was just my way of saying Hi, Shelle, what’s happenin’? Who knows what I’ll lift in the future. The best “lift” of my life happened in my mid twenties when my brother came back from Viet Nam. We weren’t too close, but he invited me to look at a boat he was building.

He had a problem, the motor was sitting on dry land, and his boat anchored at the end of a pier. There was no easy way to get the two together. So I picked up the motor, which my brother said weighed 350lbs, and I carried it to the boat. That allowed him to finish the boat, and we became much closer after several trips out in the ocean.

Strength, built from years in the gym, gave me that moment, more precious to me that any PR's or competitions I won. What good is strength if you never use it?

I'd love to hear if any of you have had similar experiences using those precious muscles in the real world?
75

Doc, guess we’ll just have to invite you and the wife to Arizona to flip tires. I had a couple of the guys from here over after a Staley conference, one of the most fun days of my life. Bauer97 and jodgey were along for the ride. Great guys. And both are about a foot taller than me! LOL

Hmmm, real life application of weight lifting. Mine always seems to go back to the BC, docs said I wouldn’t lift again and getting my arms over my head probably would never happen. So EVERY lift i do is enlightening.

And I’m sure at some point all my training pushing and pulling trucks will come in handy, esp if i ever run out of gas!

76

[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
The best “lift” of my life happened in my mid twenties when my brother came back from Viet Nam. [/quote]

Then you can’t be 50 years old. The Vietnam war was over in 1975.

Sorry to nit-pic. I’m really glad your brother came home. My brother was killed in Nam, and it’s always been a sore subject for me. Maybe that’s why I just had this flashback.

Hijack over.

77

Yo Momma, my older brother stayed in Viet Nam until the early 80’s as a civilian, mostly due to survivor guilt. He assisted in making several war movies including The Deer Hunter. He’s dead now. It’s an extra sore subject for me, so unless you got something good to say, keep your damn assumptions to yourself.

78

Fair enough.

79

Anyway, back to my crazy comeback saga. Today was leg day, squats, calves and hacks. There was quite the stir today in my artsy-fartsy Worlds, a real big bodybuilder came to visit. Probably 5-10, 260 with 7% bodyfat. He took one squat rack and I took the other. He was soon up to five plates a side for reps. My competitive ego said “Go up to at least 350 and eke out a triple.”

But I stayed true to my plan for today, which was to do 30 reps with 225. It took about four rapid fire sets, and then I proceeded to go to the restroom and rapidly lose weight the fast way. Al, you out there, I was thinking about ya. What’re you up to?

I'm not sure I can tolerate training to puking very often, but it oddly felt good to do it today. I think the whole deal with best style of training for me depends in large part on what I can tolerate, what my joints will allow, and what I can be most motivated to consistently do.

I don't feel so crazy for the time being, especially since I saw a whole bunch of people tasering themselves on You Tube today.
80

Today is day 100 in my comeback, and I have been sore in more than one bodypart for every one of those 100 days. Good soreness, DOMS/muscle soreness. Never mind the ongoing joint issues, they are slowly improving. Interestingly, my legs and triceps have been almost non-stop sore. I am either doing things right, or I am either overtraining or have not discovered the best recovery strategies.

 I am now boosting my fish oils up to 15g/day, am experimenting with different pre and post workout supplementation, and am reworking my training splits.

This might just be what I should expect when you take a 50 year old grossly out of shape, homrmone-deficicent carcass, put in HRT, and train really hard. But has anyone out there experienced similar long term soreness?