[quote]olly_g wrote:
im interested in what weed your smoking before the gym, ive tried some pretty strong sativas but the gym isnt the first thing that comes to mind after smoking ![/quote]
Im talking a puff or two, not getting completely wasted off the stuff. Maybe your stuff is TOO strong.
any one have certain products that give a good pump? i mean like individual ingredients not superpump, NOexplode etc…
i’ve been using just the basics for a while; whey, bcaa’s, creatine but now im considering buying some beta alanine but cant really tell from labels what the pump-inducing ingredients are.
cocoa powder. and of course, carbohydrates, as insulin creates the most massive pumps possible.
and it’s worth mentioning that caffeine and other stimulants are vaso-constrictors. So you have to balance the desire for a buzz with the desire for maximum blood flow.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Spike Shooters are cheaper and will give you some pep. But, even then on a daily basis they can get expensive.
lately, I’ve started to drink coffee occasionally, mainly for the health benefit for the brain and heart.
[/quote]
coffee is good for your brain and heart? i always thought it was bad for you? what health benegits are there? i never really liked it because it tasted nasty.
[quote]talon2nr7588 wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Spike Shooters are cheaper and will give you some pep. But, even then on a daily basis they can get expensive.
lately, I’ve started to drink coffee occasionally, mainly for the health benefit for the brain and heart.
[/quote]
coffee is good for your brain and heart? i always thought it was bad for you? what health benegits are there? i never really liked it because it tasted nasty.[/quote]
Heard of Google?
I drink coffee because I enjoy it. Not everything has to be because of health or bodybuilding reasons! Theres also mental health to consider. If you genuinely dont enjoy drinking it why force yourself? Find other healthy things you DO enjoy.
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
i’m sorry but where is all this “stim use = shitty recovery” coming from?
i’m not saying it’s false, just something i’ve never seen or experienced…[/quote]
And that isnt exactly whats being said either.
No offense intended here but generally the people I see at the gym who talk about NO, Jack3d or whatever other pre-workout stimulant are the guys who are obviously under eating and training beyond their recovery ability. These guys are skinny and dont seem to equate recovery with improvement.
The way I see it, if you want to get more reps or more sets you are better off to “earn them”. In other words you do a workout, and then you recover, and then the NEXT workout you will get the extra rep/s or set/s. If the supplement actually works then as soon as you stop using it (or as soon as your body adapts to it) you will see a preformance drop off. Id rather never have to deal with this and just wait an extra workout to get that extra rep you took the stim for!
All IMO obviously.[/quote]
No offense intended, but it sounds like you’ve never actually experimentned with preworkout/cognitive-type stuff. I don’t think I’m wrong and it explains your awfully idealistic tone.
Anyway, now imagine one who has periworkout nutrition down pat AND knows how to push themselves AND utilizes a well-timed CNS boost on top of all of this
Explain how what I have in bold would make any difference in growth or strength over a year? Im not sure I can figure out the mechanisms that would be involved.
Maybe I am just being simple minded here, but I dont see how artifically stimulating your fatigue threshold (ability to do more work, sets/reps) can possibly be a good thing without stimulating extra recovery to the same extent. Steroids do both and this is why they work.
Once youve got your frequency of training sorted. Your diet, sleep and stress sorted, adding the ability to do more work is only going to require more recovery. Theres only so many hours in a day to sleep, eat and unwind.
Maybe its simply a personallity thing as well. Do what works for you.[/quote]
I expected you to take issue with the “fully-maximized” claim I made. (an objectionable claim, probably)
Anyway, you’re right about the basics dictating nearly 100% of actual results but your hang-up over “artificially stimulating” (is that really what stimulants do??) still comes across as naive.
No offense intended, its more about this board encouraging experiementation, open-minded analysis etc
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
cocoa powder. and of course, carbohydrates, as insulin creates the most massive pumps possible.
and it’s worth mentioning that caffeine and other stimulants are vaso-constrictors. So you have to balance the desire for a buzz with the desire for maximum blood flow. [/quote]
How do you go about using cocoa powder to maximize pump?
Just take it pre? Or have it in your diet in general?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
cocoa powder. and of course, carbohydrates, as insulin creates the most massive pumps possible.
and it’s worth mentioning that caffeine and other stimulants are vaso-constrictors. So you have to balance the desire for a buzz with the desire for maximum blood flow. [/quote]
How do you go about using cocoa powder to maximize pump?
Just take it pre? Or have it in your diet in general?
[/quote]
yea in my workout shake
I found generic Caffeine tablets in a pharmacy, they’re really cheap and have the same content (50mg) caffiene as the more popular brands. I would usually have a Coffee, sometimes a can of energy drink pre-workout, but due to my schedule I workout at 7am. To maximise sleep i set my alarm for 30 minutes before I plan on waking, take 3 tabs and go back to sleep. When my real alarm goes off I can wake up real easily!
Ive done a little research and when taken orally, caffeine reaches peak blood concentration after 50 minutes and has a half life of almost 4 hours- the gym is right beside my house so im feeling a buzz as i hit my 2nd warmup set and into my max effort sets.
As for the dose, it depends on your caffeine tolerance, anywhere between 2 and 6mg per kg bodyweight is well within the safe limits. This works really well for me and is really cheap, hope this is helpfull
[quote]0908995s wrote:
I found generic Caffeine tablets in a pharmacy, they’re really cheap and have the same content (50mg) caffiene as the more popular brands. I would usually have a Coffee, sometimes a can of energy drink pre-workout, but due to my schedule I workout at 7am. To maximise sleep i set my alarm for 30 minutes before I plan on waking, take 3 tabs and go back to sleep. When my real alarm goes off I can wake up real easily!
Ive done a little research and when taken orally, caffeine reaches peak blood concentration after 50 minutes and has a half life of almost 4 hours- the gym is right beside my house so im feeling a buzz as i hit my 2nd warmup set and into my max effort sets.
As for the dose, it depends on your caffeine tolerance, anywhere between 2 and 6mg per kg bodyweight is well within the safe limits. This works really well for me and is really cheap, hope this is helpfull[/quote]
I’m sorry but taking stimulants and going back to sleep is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
i’m sorry but where is all this “stim use = shitty recovery” coming from?
i’m not saying it’s false, just something i’ve never seen or experienced…[/quote]
And that isnt exactly whats being said either.
No offense intended here but generally the people I see at the gym who talk about NO, Jack3d or whatever other pre-workout stimulant are the guys who are obviously under eating and training beyond their recovery ability. These guys are skinny and dont seem to equate recovery with improvement.
The way I see it, if you want to get more reps or more sets you are better off to “earn them”. In other words you do a workout, and then you recover, and then the NEXT workout you will get the extra rep/s or set/s. If the supplement actually works then as soon as you stop using it (or as soon as your body adapts to it) you will see a preformance drop off. Id rather never have to deal with this and just wait an extra workout to get that extra rep you took the stim for!
All IMO obviously.[/quote]
No offense intended, but it sounds like you’ve never actually experimentned with preworkout/cognitive-type stuff. I don’t think I’m wrong and it explains your awfully idealistic tone.
Anyway, now imagine one who has periworkout nutrition down pat AND knows how to push themselves AND utilizes a well-timed CNS boost on top of all of this
Maybe I am just being simple minded here, but I dont see how artifically stimulating your fatigue threshold (ability to do more work, sets/reps) can possibly be a good thing without stimulating extra recovery to the same extent. Steroids do both and this is why they work.
[/quote]
This actually does make sense, to an extent. If you are operating on sufficient rest for your workouts and the stims/focus boosters are just helping you to move a bit more weight, they should be fine. This isn’t usually the case IN MY EXPERIENCE though- most people I see using pre-WO drinks don’t have their rest/nutrition together and are masking insufficient recovery by jacking themselves up for the workout. That’s not a good move- it’s unsustainable, ineffective, and it’s a bullshit copout for idiots who don’t want to manage neural/muscular fatigue through intelligent planning of rest, nutrition, and workouts.
If you actually have a solid recovery plan, a Spike before your workout or something to that effect should be fine. It’s just a matter of using it as a performance-enhancer rather than a crutch.
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
I’m sorry but taking stimulants and going back to sleep is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]
I don’t mean to sound condescending but you properly need to understand the pharmacology behind the caffeine tablets before saying it’s a dumb idea. The tablets are taken orally and their absorption takes approximately 40 minutes. The tables will have no effect until this time, but shortly after, blood concentrations will peak. The levels in blood will then decrease due to metabolism in the liver, with half the original concentration being present at 5 hours post-administration
[quote]0908995s wrote:
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
I’m sorry but taking stimulants and going back to sleep is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]
I don’t mean to sound condescending but you properly need to understand the pharmacology behind the caffeine tablets before saying it’s a dumb idea. The tablets are taken orally and their absorption takes approximately 40 minutes. The tables will have no effect until this time, but shortly after, blood concentrations will peak. The levels in blood will then decrease due to metabolism in the liver, with half the original concentration being present at 5 hours post-administration[/quote]
EDIT: It seems that you are correct, sir. Sorry for being an ass. I’ve never had any luck trying to go back to sleep after consuming anything, much less a stimulant. I tend to respond to things a bit more quickly than most though, and I’m a light sleeper, so that could explain.
If it works well for you and others, that’s awesome though.
I would still say that weight training first thing in the AM is not ideal. Your CNS isn’t ready to fire at maximum effectiveness immediately, which can be limiting. With that said, tough schedules sometimes necessitate early lifting. I can empathize with those who need to lift first thing or not at all- I ran into that some days last semester.
Again, sorry for being such a prick before lol. I am not a “strict science” type (more of a read up, if it seems to make sense then try it and gauge empirical results sort), and it seems that you have a good grasp on that stuff.
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]0908995s wrote:
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
I’m sorry but taking stimulants and going back to sleep is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]
I don’t mean to sound condescending but you properly need to understand the pharmacology behind the caffeine tablets before saying it’s a dumb idea. The tablets are taken orally and their absorption takes approximately 40 minutes. The tables will have no effect until this time, but shortly after, blood concentrations will peak. The levels in blood will then decrease due to metabolism in the liver, with half the original concentration being present at 5 hours post-administration[/quote]
You don’t sound that condescending. I’m assuming from the way you write that you have a legitimate scientific background. I do not- I just have a pretty substantial amount of experience with a variety of stims including but not limited to caffeine tabs.
Based on experience with caffeine tablets, I find it hard to believe that they would have “no effect” for a whole 40 minutes when taken in the early AM, presumably on an empty stomach. I could certainly see 40 minutes being the time required for the noticeable effects to peak, but 40 minutes to notice ANY effect strikes me as a bit screwy. I’m also somewhat confused by how the concentration 5 hours post-administration is even remotely relevant. It’s difficult to see a very noticeable effect of any stimulant 5 hours later in my experience, unless your tolerance is very weak.
Regardless, you could be using some sort of time-release tabs or something to that effect that I’ve not tried. If it works for you, then it works for you. I personally wouldn’t try it. I avoid putting in a full weight workouts upon wakeup anyway- I wait at least 2-3 hours before lifting, so it isn’t really necessary for me.[/quote]
this article from CS advocates taking a caffein pill and going back to sleep, and i can attest to its effectiveness.
i can never wake up in the morning, i often unconsciously wake up and turn my alarm clock off and sleep another 45 minutes. but setting the alarm 30 mins early and using the caffein pill and going back to sleep i can pop out of bed and go run.
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
i’m sorry but where is all this “stim use = shitty recovery” coming from?
i’m not saying it’s false, just something i’ve never seen or experienced…[/quote]
And that isnt exactly whats being said either.
No offense intended here but generally the people I see at the gym who talk about NO, Jack3d or whatever other pre-workout stimulant are the guys who are obviously under eating and training beyond their recovery ability. These guys are skinny and dont seem to equate recovery with improvement.
The way I see it, if you want to get more reps or more sets you are better off to “earn them”. In other words you do a workout, and then you recover, and then the NEXT workout you will get the extra rep/s or set/s. If the supplement actually works then as soon as you stop using it (or as soon as your body adapts to it) you will see a preformance drop off. Id rather never have to deal with this and just wait an extra workout to get that extra rep you took the stim for!
All IMO obviously.[/quote]
No offense intended, but it sounds like you’ve never actually experimentned with preworkout/cognitive-type stuff. I don’t think I’m wrong and it explains your awfully idealistic tone.
Anyway, now imagine one who has periworkout nutrition down pat AND knows how to push themselves AND utilizes a well-timed CNS boost on top of all of this
Explain how what I have in bold would make any difference in growth or strength over a year? Im not sure I can figure out the mechanisms that would be involved.
Maybe I am just being simple minded here, but I dont see how artifically stimulating your fatigue threshold (ability to do more work, sets/reps) can possibly be a good thing without stimulating extra recovery to the same extent. Steroids do both and this is why they work.
Once youve got your frequency of training sorted. Your diet, sleep and stress sorted, [b/]adding the ability to do more work is only going to require more recovery. Theres only so many hours in a day to sleep, eat and unwind.[b/]
Maybe its simply a personallity thing as well. Do what works for you.[/quote]
this is just a theory of mine, but what if the crash after stimulant use and a work out, is actually a heightened sense of relaxation, imagine that after you’re work out and during your crash if you had the opportunity to go to bed or play a video game, instead of having responsibilities and a job to go back too. would this not be an excellent opportunity for your body to super compensate for the damage you did in your workout?
[quote]maraudersfball wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
i’m sorry but where is all this “stim use = shitty recovery” coming from?
i’m not saying it’s false, just something i’ve never seen or experienced…[/quote]
And that isnt exactly whats being said either.
No offense intended here but generally the people I see at the gym who talk about NO, Jack3d or whatever other pre-workout stimulant are the guys who are obviously under eating and training beyond their recovery ability. These guys are skinny and dont seem to equate recovery with improvement.
The way I see it, if you want to get more reps or more sets you are better off to “earn them”. In other words you do a workout, and then you recover, and then the NEXT workout you will get the extra rep/s or set/s. If the supplement actually works then as soon as you stop using it (or as soon as your body adapts to it) you will see a preformance drop off. Id rather never have to deal with this and just wait an extra workout to get that extra rep you took the stim for!
All IMO obviously.[/quote]
No offense intended, but it sounds like you’ve never actually experimentned with preworkout/cognitive-type stuff. I don’t think I’m wrong and it explains your awfully idealistic tone.
Anyway, now imagine one who has periworkout nutrition down pat AND knows how to push themselves AND utilizes a well-timed CNS boost on top of all of this
Explain how what I have in bold would make any difference in growth or strength over a year? Im not sure I can figure out the mechanisms that would be involved.
Maybe I am just being simple minded here, but I dont see how artifically stimulating your fatigue threshold (ability to do more work, sets/reps) can possibly be a good thing without stimulating extra recovery to the same extent. Steroids do both and this is why they work.
Once youve got your frequency of training sorted. Your diet, sleep and stress sorted, [b/]adding the ability to do more work is only going to require more recovery. Theres only so many hours in a day to sleep, eat and unwind.[b/]
Maybe its simply a personallity thing as well. Do what works for you.[/quote]
this is just a theory of mine, but what if the crash after stimulant use and a work out, is actually a heightened sense of relaxation, imagine that after you’re working and during your crash if you had the opportunity to go to bed or play a video game, instead of having responsibilities and a job to go back too. would this not be an excellent opportunity for your body to super compensate for the damage you did in your workout?
[/quote]
Thanks for posting the article. Not sure if your theory about supercompensation stands true on the physiological level, but it is nice in a psychological sense to relax a bit and recover after a hard workout rather than running to the next order of business.
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]0908995s wrote:
I found generic Caffeine tablets in a pharmacy, they’re really cheap and have the same content (50mg) caffiene as the more popular brands. I would usually have a Coffee, sometimes a can of energy drink pre-workout, but due to my schedule I workout at 7am. To maximise sleep i set my alarm for 30 minutes before I plan on waking, take 3 tabs and go back to sleep. When my real alarm goes off I can wake up real easily!
Ive done a little research and when taken orally, caffeine reaches peak blood concentration after 50 minutes and has a half life of almost 4 hours- the gym is right beside my house so im feeling a buzz as i hit my 2nd warmup set and into my max effort sets.
As for the dose, it depends on your caffeine tolerance, anywhere between 2 and 6mg per kg bodyweight is well within the safe limits. This works really well for me and is really cheap, hope this is helpfull[/quote]
I’m sorry but taking stimulants and going back to sleep is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.[/quote]
Why? He wakes up right as it begins to take effect, so he’s alert when he gets up.
He’s not taking it 30 minutes before he goes to bed for the night
edit: Oops didn’t see there was a third page. My turn to be sorry