[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Have you ever heard of someone hitting 30% more home runs in college baseball using an aluminum bat (as compared to the majors using wood)?
[/quote]
Uhh, yes. Is this even a serious question?
[quote]brunottfn wrote:
i would like to see an article all about powerlifting gear shits ,suits,belts and breifs[/quote]
I prefer spiderman briefs personally, i think they’re original because they came before batman and superman.
I have a new thought to share. The reason why equipment is OK in powerlifting is because the people and authority in the powerlifting world define it to be OK. Simple as that.
Likewise, the reason why long jumpers can’t use trampolines is because the people and authority in the track and field world define it so.
Now, I’m not just talking about rules. I’m talking about culture. The problem with most guys who can’t accept powerlifting shirts is that they look at things too much from an etic perspective, basing everything they see on standards and beliefs their own culture has ingrained into them. These people should show some cultural relativism and try to understand powerlifters in an emic perspective.
Powerlifting is a culture on its own, and whether we like their culture or not, we have to show some respect, the same way we respect other religions, foreign cultures, etc.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Have you ever heard of someone hitting 30% more home runs in college baseball using an aluminum bat (as compared to the majors using wood)?
Uhh, yes. Is this even a serious question?[/quote]
Yeah, it was.
If aluminum bats give a significant advantage, then I’d say they misrepresent a persons hitting skills.
Do you have any stats that would show this?
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
I have a new thought to share. The reason why equipment is OK in powerlifting is because the people and authority in the powerlifting world define it to be OK. Simple as that.
Likewise, the reason why long jumpers can’t use trampolines is because the people and authority in the track and field world define it so.
Now, I’m not just talking about rules. I’m talking about culture. The problem with most guys who can’t accept powerlifting shirts is that they look at things too much from an etic perspective, basing everything they see on standards and beliefs their own culture has ingrained into them. These people should show some cultural relativism and try to understand powerlifters in an emic perspective.
Powerlifting is a culture on its own, and whether we like their culture or not, we have to show some respect, the same way we respect other religions, foreign cultures, etc.[/quote]
Well said.
In all reality, any federation can do as they please.
I just dont see the point in getting upset by a casual observers opinion of the equipment used. If someone thinks catching gloves in football make it too easy to catch the damn thing (now pay attention here, everybody) but they arent trying to get the gloves out of the game… what does it hurt? Why get bent out of shape over it?
Why does it bother people so much that not everyone thinks shirts are great?
To be honest in the back of their minds I think they wish they could say to themselves they did it without a shirt. Thats why.
A few things:
-The new generation poly fabrics are amazing. Is gear getting out of hand? Depends on your worldview. As an active competitor i know you don’t bring a stick to a gunfight, and lifting raw vs geared folks is like the Polish Cavalry charging German Panzers; idealistic but a great way to get runover.
-PL is a cult sport. It’s best chance and high water mark was the WPO at the Arnold. Anybody who says that wasn’t great to watch wasn’t there. Que sera…
-Getting the most of your gear is an art and a science. The choice to use it and the pursuit of maximizing it is up to the individual.
-If you haven’t hit an inside fast ball with an aluminum bat and a wood bat then you might ask if there is any difference.
-I get a lot out of my Titan single ply gear. When i get done competing i will not use it ever again. Unless i feel like it…
jmo
jack
Can i shoot onto an off point for a second. I see powerlifters who use equipment alot in here (pointing this question at jackreape mostly) as seeing as the new katana is recently IPF certified for USAPL competitions also i was looking into it and want 1st person reviews on its capabilities
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Have you ever heard of someone hitting 30% more home runs in college baseball using an aluminum bat (as compared to the majors using wood)?
Uhh, yes. Is this even a serious question?
Yeah, it was.
If aluminum bats give a significant advantage, then I’d say they misrepresent a persons hitting skills.
Do you have any stats that would show this?[/quote]
Yeah, I could dig some up, but I don’t think it will matter. Your mind is already made up. If you’re really interested just google “aluminum bats.” You’ll get several hits, including debates just like this one. You see, it’s another controversial issue in sports, but you, and several others didn’t know this, or don’t care. Why is that? Is it because, unlike all the internet gym rats, there aren’t that many internet warrior baseball players? Probably. Every jackass with a keyboard wants to know where they stand in comparison to the world’s best benchers.
[quote]Pipes06 wrote:
Can i shoot onto an off point for a second. I see powerlifters who use equipment alot in here (pointing this question at jackreape mostly) as seeing as the new katana is recently IPF certified for USAPL competitions also i was looking into it and want 1st person reviews on its capabilities[/quote]
Katana is a great shirt and is maybe too much for a inexperienced lifter even in single ply. I would start with an F6, it is a bit more springy and has wider groove than the Katana. Fit is everything, and practice in the shirt is everything else too! For example, at 227 lbs my size 48 F6 takes 505 to touch, my 46 F6 takes 530, and my 46 Katana 580. Most need to bring up their lockout strength or use a looser shirt.
Good luck
jack
[quote]jackreape wrote:
Pipes06 wrote:
Can i shoot onto an off point for a second. I see powerlifters who use equipment alot in here (pointing this question at jackreape mostly) as seeing as the new katana is recently IPF certified for USAPL competitions also i was looking into it and want 1st person reviews on its capabilities
Katana is a great shirt and is maybe too much for a inexperienced lifter even in single ply. I would start with an F6, it is a bit more springy and has wider groove than the Katana. Fit is everything, and practice in the shirt is everything else too! For example, at 227 lbs my size 48 F6 takes 505 to touch, my 46 F6 takes 530, and my 46 Katana 580. Most need to bring up their lockout strength or use a looser shirt.
Good luck
jack
[/quote]
Great post. Now this brings me into another question. I have been shirted a couple times for competition and i do have a nice lockout. But what i was wondering is with a shirt of the Katana’s abilities should i have one made custom to me for competiton, or measure out myself and by a stock size up what i should be for competition not being used to this shirt.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Have you ever heard of someone hitting 30% more home runs in college baseball using an aluminum bat (as compared to the majors using wood)?
Uhh, yes. Is this even a serious question?
Yeah, it was.
If aluminum bats give a significant advantage, then I’d say they misrepresent a persons hitting skills.
Do you have any stats that would show this?
Yeah, I could dig some up, but I don’t think it will matter. Your mind is already made up. If you’re really interested just google “aluminum bats.” You’ll get several hits, including debates just like this one. You see, it’s another controversial issue in sports, but you, and several others didn’t know this, or don’t care. Why is that? Is it because, unlike all the internet gym rats, there aren’t that many internet warrior baseball players? Probably. Every jackass with a keyboard wants to know where they stand in comparison to the world’s best benchers.[/quote]
I’m a little disappointed by your reply here. It wouldnt be that terribly difficult for you to cite a few stats and references. The cliche “Just google it” response is, well, just disappointing.
Secondly, perhaps you’re right, that my mind is already made up that equipment providing a significant advantage misrepresents a persons skills or abilities. If aluminum bats do this, then I’m as anti-aluminum bats as I am anti-bench shirts.
And the reason I dont know about this is because I’m not a baseball fan and I dont frequent sites that talk about baseball. But I do come here, and people talk about powerlifting here. So I’m exposed to it more.
Lastly, you falsely assume I’m against shirts because they make my bench look weak in comparison. I really couldnt care less either way. The more egotistical side of this debate, IMO, is the people who defend shirted benching (because they themselves want to or already take advantage of bench shirts and dont want to have to start telling everyone “My bench is 500” whereas, with a shirt, they can say “My bench is 750!”).
[quote]Pipes06 wrote:
jackreape wrote:
Pipes06 wrote:
Can i shoot onto an off point for a second. I see powerlifters who use equipment alot in here (pointing this question at jackreape mostly) as seeing as the new katana is recently IPF certified for USAPL competitions also i was looking into it and want 1st person reviews on its capabilities
Katana is a great shirt and is maybe too much for a inexperienced lifter even in single ply. I would start with an F6, it is a bit more springy and has wider groove than the Katana. Fit is everything, and practice in the shirt is everything else too! For example, at 227 lbs my size 48 F6 takes 505 to touch, my 46 F6 takes 530, and my 46 Katana 580. Most need to bring up their lockout strength or use a looser shirt.
Good luck
jack
Great post. Now this brings me into another question. I have been shirted a couple times for competition and i do have a nice lockout. But what i was wondering is with a shirt of the Katana’s abilities should i have one made custom to me for competiton, or measure out myself and by a stock size up what i should be for competition not being used to this shirt.
[/quote]
Personally i beleive in changing shirts in a meet and having a few to train in. i have a 52, 48 and 46 F6, and a 48 and 46 Katana. ( i do not do well in the 48 Katana for some reason, think the chest plate is too wide) i train in all of them and open in the 46 F6 and finish in the 46 Katana. i train most in the 52 F6 which takes anywhere from 405 to 475 to touch depending on how much i jack the collar and sleeves.
That may offend some purists, but it hasn’t bothered me when i picked up the winners check the last few years at a few BP meets. Some choose to use different supplements than me, i choose to squeeze all i can from the shirt.
i also don’t BP with my feet on the bench, my elbows out, i use a belt and wrist wraps, and i never worry about pec shoulder tie ins or pec minor development, yet i still have a fair amount of muscle.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Lastly, you falsely assume I’m against shirts because they make my bench look weak in comparison. I really couldnt care less either way. The more egotistical side of this debate, IMO, is the people who defend shirted benching (because they themselves want to or already take advantage of bench shirts and dont want to have to start telling everyone “My bench is 500” whereas, with a shirt, they can say “My bench is 750!”).
[/quote]
As far as comparing benches, I wasn’t specifically referring to you. It was a general statement. If that doesn’t apply to you, then great.
On the other hand, I doubt most shirted benchers care, or even know, what their RAW max is. So I doubt they are stating their shirted max for ego purposes. Well, I take that back; it may be for ego purposes, but not for a false comparison to RAW lifts. But the ego may be involved when they proudly state a number that only a small percentage of people will ever come close to benching.
And I’ll make a deal with you, you tell me exactly your issue with bench shirts and I will dig up some batting statistics for you. Seriously, I don’t get it. Shirted benchers don’t care if you bench RAW. Why is it such an issue the other way around?
[quote]malonetd wrote:
And I’ll make a deal with you, you tell me exactly your issue with bench shirts and I will dig up some batting statistics for you. Seriously, I don’t get it. Shirted benchers don’t care if you bench RAW. Why is it such an issue the other way around?[/quote]
My issue is that the shirt assists the lifter enough that it gives a false representation of strength. I feel as though this takes away from the point of the sport/event.
It just seems, to me, like a way to get assistance on the hardest part of the lift and still claim the weight. I’d feel the same way if powerlifters used straps when deadlifting; it would be a way for them to avoid a potential weak link (grip strength) and claim a larger number.
Wow, this is fucking crazy. For the record, I hate training in gear. It is uncomfortable, expensive, and for the most part works against the lifter. The gear is the biggest challenge for the competitve powerlifter. Gear can literally make you or BREAK you. I’ve seen so many guys come to my gym, buy a brand spanking new double ply, radical cut, scoop neck, space age material shirt. They try it for a few workouts, they get hurt by the weight they try, sell the shirt and never return.
Shirts definitely have levels of experience made into them. If your new, get only single ply or loose fitting shirts to learn how the use the gear. As you grow and get stronger, slowly upgrade to maybe a tighter shirt or loose double ply and keep practicing your technique, as long as your getting stronger.
It should take the new powerlifter, given lifting experience prior to powerlifting, about a year of shirt work to be confident and competent in the shirt they have been working with. My favorite is the tough guy who is certain if he threw on a shirt or squat suit he’ll clean house. The only thing that usually happens is a hospital visit or surgery.
Powerlifting is extremely dangerous, not because of the wieghts, but becuase of the wildcard thrown in by using gear. You normal body movements are altered and your body tries to resist in fear, and they fail. I use all the gear needed to compete. I train mostly raw, as do most powerlifters I know. We hate training cycles. Why? Becuase we have to put the fucking gear on for the meet.
Training cycles usually last 12 weeks for me. So that’s 12 weeks of a huge pain in the ass, not to mention bruises, pinches, and sore ass joints from overloading w/ the gear on. I love competing, my fellow competitors wear gear, so we all wear gear. I don’t care how much anyone else benches or squats or pulls. Only what I do. I don’t care how much someone else totals, unless they are my training partner and I know how hard they worked for it. I don’t care how much you think we can lift. The only time you’ll see me lift if your not my partner is in a meet.
Before I completely committed to pwerlifting my best raw squat was like 495, maybe. Since using gear and training hard for like 5 years my best raw squat is 700. Best meet squat is 800. I’m more proud of the meet squat, beacuse it was much harder for me then my raw 700. Gear makes shit harder for me, but the numbers seem to keep going up, so there’s my answer to this wierd thread.
"My issue is that the shirt assists the lifter enough that it gives a false representation of strength. I feel as though this takes away from the point of the sport/event.
It just seems, to me, like a way to get assistance on the hardest part of the lift and still claim the weight. I’d feel the same way if powerlifters used straps when deadlifting; it would be a way for them to avoid a potential weak link (grip strength) and claim a larger number. "
It is not a false representation of strength. Its equipped powerlifting! Strength is only one (albeit important factor) aspect. Using and training with the equipment correctly is equally as important. The “point” of equipped lifting is to lift the most weight equipped. This is self evident! If an equipped powerlifter say his/her bench is x then thats an equipped bench. How hard is that to understand.
Now you may feel that you would enjoy the sport sans equipment. No probs, there are unequipped feds to cater for your needs.
By the way do you try to belittle strongmen for using equipment, and god forbid straps for deadlifting. I hope you are consistant and do.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
My issue is that the shirt assists the lifter enough that it gives a false representation of strength. I feel as though this takes away from the point of the sport/event.
It just seems, to me, like a way to get assistance on the hardest part of the lift and still claim the weight. I’d feel the same way if powerlifters used straps when deadlifting; it would be a way for them to avoid a potential weak link (grip strength) and claim a larger number. [/quote]
A couple questions for you:
Is powerlifting a sport?
Do you think technique should play a role in powerlifting?
What sports are you a fan of?
[quote]malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
My issue is that the shirt assists the lifter enough that it gives a false representation of strength. I feel as though this takes away from the point of the sport/event.
It just seems, to me, like a way to get assistance on the hardest part of the lift and still claim the weight. I’d feel the same way if powerlifters used straps when deadlifting; it would be a way for them to avoid a potential weak link (grip strength) and claim a larger number.
A couple questions for you:
Is powerlifting a sport?
Do you think technique should play a role in powerlifting?
What sports are you a fan of?[/quote]
Sure, powerlifting is a sport. Its a competition based on who can lift the most weight.
Yes, technique should play a role in powerlifting. How could it not?
I’m not really a fan of any sports… I’ll watch some boxing or MMA if its on, and I play tennis/racketball recreationally.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
and I play tennis/racketball recreationally.[/quote]
And I think we have identified the disconnect right here.