Air America Ratings Disaster

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
Thor- Retarded? No not even close, but sometimes that would be nice. That was an example of the hyperbole filled propaganda that spews forth every time it becomes obvious that even mainstream America disagrees with the viewpoints of a lunatic fringe.

The ones I used are the more common and less creative ones. I’m sure there are more complex and creative spiels being written at this very moment.But hell, I was just being sarcastic and having a little fun. I thought that was obvious, but if you aren’t very good at critical reading, you probably didn’t get that.

You see, there are techniques used in writing that can put a subtle or even obvious slant on the tone of an article. This is done by using any number of literary devices to sway the opinion of the reader. Once you learn to identify these, you will be able to discerne the difference between something that has been written to provide information, and something that was written to sway an opinion.

So maybe I should rephrase my initial response to- Because of the over use of the I feel perspective, coupled with a lack of ability to report without attacking, I believe that Air America sucks.
izat better?
[/quote]

hyperbole? makes sence - once i thought about it more - i thought that was what you were doing- but I read your thread before my morning coffee.

42

I’m leaning toward the reason for their failure being that they are there simply to attack, not to entertain or inform. Basically, they just are not as good at it as the conservatives…yet.

I also tend to think that this is not the end of liberalism (to bad).

43

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m leaning toward the reason for their failure being that they are there simply to attack, not to entertain or inform. Basically, they just are not as good at it as the conservatives…yet.

I also tend to think that this is not the end of liberalism (to bad).[/quote]

Again they’re “failing” because they are 1 year old. By failing I mean adding stations, and beating conservative favorites in key demographics (i.e. not eskimos) Some of the shows are shrill, some are informative, and some are entertaining too (if you’re a liberal).

44

[quote]100meters wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I’m leaning toward the reason for their failure being that they are there simply to attack, not to entertain or inform. Basically, they just are not as good at it as the conservatives…yet.

I also tend to think that this is not the end of liberalism (to bad).

Again they’re “failing” because they are 1 year old. By failing I mean adding stations, and beating conservative favorites in key demographics (i.e. not eskimos) Some of the shows are shrill, some are informative, and some are entertaining too (if you’re a liberal).

[/quote]

Yea, I’ll buy that for now. If they are still “failing” in a few more years you and I will have to rethink it…right?

45

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Aside from F911, could you provide some sort of example of the rampant liberalism that shuns conservative ideas in film? Would conservative movies be more religious? No swearing? No sex? Ahh, I can see why there aren’t any movies like this. No one would go see them. Honestly, please provide an example of this beyond simply making a generalization that broad.[/quote]

How often I religion put into a good light? Or are the preachers wild fanatics who want to take your money? Or portrayed as some control freak who has manipulated some town into a mini fascist regime. It is no wonder people are afraid of religion.

Any pro-life movies out there? I think not, at least not in the mainstream. Though I have seen a hell of a lot portraying the pro choice position in a positive light.

Every stereotype about conservatives that was just presented in your statement above, they don’t like swearing, are all religious nuts, and are all prudes. (Ok, too many are prudes.) Where do you think you got those stereotypes? From movies.

How are cops portrayed? Ever in a good light? Only when they are the main character, and even then they are only one of maybe a couple of non idiot, non corrupt cops.

Then there is the military, always the evil entity that has to be fought.

Who is always the corrupt politician in movies? Republicans.

And the Passion of the Christ is a perfect example. Hollywood did not want that movie to be made. And in fact did everything they could to discredit it. And they did all they could to make F911 a big movie.

Generally they are not as blatant about it as they were in the last example. Not all movies have anything really political in them, but if they do, it is almost always liberal.

46

[quote]The Mage wrote:
How often I religion put into a good light? Or are the preachers wild fanatics who want to take your money? Or portrayed as some control freak who has manipulated some town into a mini fascist regime. It is no wonder people are afraid of religion.[/quote]

This is due to movies? And not televangelists who get caught with hookers or publicly chastised for using the money sent in by aging grandmothers to buy a new addition to his already grandiose house? I will have to let Jimmy Swaggart and Tammy Fay Baker’s ex-cohort know that they had nothing to do with this image…according to you.

[quote]
Any pro-life movies out there? I think not, at least not in the mainstream. Though I have seen a hell of a lot portraying the pro choice position in a positive light.[/quote]

What movie in the past 10 years was a pro-choice flick? Please, give me one name of a movie that was all about a woman having an abortion and how great it was. Your generalizations are ridiculous.

[quote]
Every stereotype about conservatives that was just presented in your statement above, they don’t like swearing, are all religious nuts, and are all prudes. (Ok, too many are prudes.) Where do you think you got those stereotypes? From movies. [/quote]

I got that stereotype from posts like the other poster I responded to…who assumed that because the Passion of The Christ was a religious movie that this makes it a “conservative” movie. Popular culture as well as many politicians seem to be using the misguided notion that being conservative equals being religious or having morals. The entire concept is treated as if ONLY conservatives would be religious or have strong morals. Instead of seeing The Passion of The Christ as a religious movie, it was automatically reduced to being “conservative”. I don’t see how you missed that but took it upon yourself to pretend as if I made up some false ideas from the conservative party.

[quote]
How are cops portrayed? Ever in a good light? Only when they are the main character, and even then they are only one of maybe a couple of non idiot, non corrupt cops.[/quote]

That is utter bullshit and you know it. The majority of action flicks are about cops and usually it is based on “good cop vs criminals” or “good cop vs bad cops”. To deny that there is corruption in some police forces is completely ridiculous. To act as if there should never be movies about it is even more ridiciulous. Precinct 13, just released on DVD, was about a good cop against bad cops. Are you saying it was “liberal” because it dared to show that some cops were bad? Does this mean that conservative movies only involve pretending as if all cops are great people? Does this mean that, in essence, you want movies that gloss over the truth as long as it presents those you like in society in a positive manner?

[quote]
Then there is the military, always the evil entity that has to be fought.[/quote]

Right, like in Band of Brothers? Finding Private Ryan? The Thin Red Line? Full Metal Jacket? Yeah, those all did that…some of the greatest war movie of all time in theater go against what you just said.

[quote]
Who is always the corrupt politician in movies? Republicans.[/quote]

There is a distinction? Please show me ONE movie that seperated “republicans” from all other politicians. The latest Triple X movie was about a corrupt politician and never once was it mentioned whose “side” he was on. The President in the movie was also the hero in the end, which disproves what you just wrote.

[quote]
And the Passion of the Christ is a perfect example. Hollywood did not want that movie to be made. And in fact did everything they could to discredit it. And they did all they could to make F911 a big movie.[/quote]

Prove this. Hollywood didn’t want to lose money on a controversial film. It turned out to be a cash crop. According to you, Spiderman was a conservative movie because they were in court for 10 years (that film was orginally being worked on for a 1993 release date) trying to get that made into a movie.

[quote]
Generally they are not as blatant about it as they were in the last example. Not all movies have anything really political in them, but if they do, it is almost always liberal.[/quote]

Again, utter BS. I have given you examples of movies that go against what you have stated. You have given nothing but mentioning The Passion of The Christ which was met with large dissatisfaction from the jewish community (I am sure many of which possibly own a few companies in the movie industry).

47

Cider House Rules was a pro-abortion movie.

In either Lethal Weapon 2 or 3 most of the cars you see in the shots have PETA bumper stickers on them. The film crew put the stickers on, and it played no part in the movie’s plot.

Its not always the “in your face” style that is shown. Many times its just how something is worded. How many times have you heard “Conservative Republican” as a description but you didnt hear “Liberal Democrate” used by the same host/news anchor? You just heard them say Democrate.

48

Yea Zeb, I would take a wait and see approach to this. They could be in a feeling out process at this point, pushing the limits and testing strategies to see what works better and what should be used more often. If they survive the learning curve and show the ability to draw sponsorship and profit, they might be around for a long time. Me personaly, I am hoping that they suffer some sort of breach of ethical integrity and self destruct, but with the subjectiveness that they subscribe to, I don’t know if that is possible.

Ultimately in business, profit is king and that will be the major determinant of success or faliure.

49

[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
Yea Zeb, I would take a wait and see approach to this. They could be in a feeling out process at this point, pushing the limits and testing strategies to see what works better and what should be used more often. If they survive the learning curve and show the ability to draw sponsorship and profit, they might be around for a long time. Me personaly, I am hoping that they suffer some sort of breach of ethical integrity and self destruct, but with the subjectiveness that they subscribe to, I don’t know if that is possible.

Ultimately in business, profit is king and that will be the major determinant of success or faliure.

[/quote]

Very well stated!

50

[quote]Chewman wrote:
Cider House Rules was a pro-abortion movie.

In either Lethal Weapon 2 or 3 most of the cars you see in the shots have PETA bumper stickers on them. The film crew put the stickers on, and it played no part in the movie’s plot.
[/quote]

Unless you are suggesting that this was subliminal and is used to force us all to become vegetarians, that “example” of rampant liberalism in film has to be the weakest. Cider House Rules? Did you go see Bridget Jones Diary as well? I haven’t seen the movie so I can’t comment but from the trailer info,

You are right! He performed illegal abortions! Wait a second, how is that pro-abortion? By the way, good on you for finding a movie that actually dealt with that topic, regardless of how few people may have seen it or gave a care of the content.

51

With Chewman’s logic Senator Bill Frist is pro-abortion.

Anyone know why?

52

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Chewman wrote:
Cider House Rules was a pro-abortion movie.

In either Lethal Weapon 2 or 3 most of the cars you see in the shots have PETA bumper stickers on them. The film crew put the stickers on, and it played no part in the movie’s plot.

Unless you are suggesting that this was subliminal and is used to force us all to become vegetarians, that “example” of rampant liberalism in film has to be the weakest.

ProX: The example I gave was one in which someting was put in a movie on purpose by members of a liberal group which played no part in the movie’s plot. If I suggest something I say it outright. So you can stop trying to put words in my mouth. But if you do that then you have no footing to argue from.

Cider House Rules? Did you go see Bridget Jones Diary as well?

I saw both of them. Wife enjoyed Bridget Jones more than I did.

I haven’t seen the movie so I can’t comment but from the trailer info,

Homer is an orphan in remote St. Cloud, Maine. Never adopted, he becomes the favorite of orphanage director Dr. Larch, who imparts his full medical knowledge on Homer, who becomes a skilled, albeit unlicensed, physician. But Homer yearns for a self-chosen life outside the orphanage. When Wally and pregnant Candy visit the orphanage Dr. Larch provides medically safe, albeit illegal, abortions Homer leaves with them to work on Wally’s family apple farm. Wally goes off to war, leaving Homer and Candy alone together. What will Homer learn about life and love in the cider house? What of the destiny that Dr. Larch has planned for him?

You are right! He performed illegal abortions! Wait a second, how is that pro-abortion?

See the movie before you try to argue.

By the way, good on you for finding a movie that actually dealt with that topic, regardless of how few people may have seen it or gave a care of the content.[/quote]

Michael Caine: This appreciation was further evidenced in 2000, when Caine was honored with a Best Supporting Actor Academy Award for his portrayal of an abortionist in The Cider House Rules.

taken from : MSN

Enough people saw it that it played in my little town and Caine won an Academy Award.

53

[quote]Professor X wrote:
CDM wrote:
It was picked apart by more the the Jewish. I still have the Time and Newsweek issues that tried their best to discredit the movie. That wasn’t really my point though. The point I was trying to make was that you have Mel Gibson, one of the biggest stars in Hollywood and he cannot get a single backer for his movie? Do you think he had that much trouble getting Braveheart made or if he would of pitched What Women Want 2? I doubt it. But in the meanwhile you have the major studios give the green light to tripe like Hide and Seek, or any movie with Ben Affleck in it. The Passion did well in spite of all the roadblocks that were put up against it. And I see no one has come up with a Pro-Life movie yet.

My issue with what you just wrote is that you act as if religion is some right held only by conservatives. You can’t possibly be serious. Do you think that no one but conservatives believe deeply in God? Mel Gibson’s movie didn’t have anything to do with “liberal vs conservative” and everything to do with getting a very religious movie backed with some money. Why was that an issue? Because producers want to back things that they think will make money. It is that simple. If religious movies were suddenly en vogue, you would see NOTHING but religious movies at the movie theater. Gibson had the last laugh because I know very few people who haven’t at least heard of that movie. The hype helped it sell.

Also, I disagree with there being some uproar from random people against that movie. Much of the controversy was directly related to the Jewish community and their opinion of how history took place. Quit acting as if “liberals” or any other sub-group of society was speaking out against the movie due to it being “conservative”. That notion alone insults every Christian in this country who is not conservative.[/quote]

I never said and I am not acting like religion is a conservative only position. That would be silly considering my Father is, in his words a “Truman liberal” and attends church every Sunday. I am not saying Gibson’s movie had anything to do with a liberal vs. conservative position. I am saying there is a anti-Christian bias in Hollywood and Hollywood is made up of a majority of liberals who are anti-Christian. You are right, the movie makers want to make money and they used the fact that it was a religous movie as an excuse not to back it. But I searched and searched and couldn’t find a thing about Scorsese having any problems getting money to make The Last Temptation of Christ. Could it be because it painted Christ in a negative light? The hype sure didn’t sell that movie. Also usually when you have a blockbuster movie the copycat movies usually follow, look at the current horror movie cycle, it hasn’t and won’t happen with The Passion.

There was uproar from more than just the Jewish community, you didn’t see the Diane Sawyer interview with Gibson? She tried to grill him but did not do her homework. Instead she relied on the old stand by of trying to tie Christianity to the nazi movement in Germany. Again I don’t think they (the MSM and Hollywood) were speaking out against the movie because it was conservative, I think they were speaking out about it because they are anti-Christian.

Having said all that, I do not think it is a malicious thing where they sit around and plan to block movies with Christian themes, I think like Bernard Goldberg wrote in Bias that they just think of Christianity as an issue that people with common sense ignore. They see all of the the issue on the left as mainstream and just good sense. Which is what you would expect when like groups of people hang around together.

54

I forgot to add another recent Pro-abortion movie was If These Walls Could Talk with Cher.

55

[quote]Chewman wrote:
Michael Caine: This appreciation was further evidenced in 2000, when Caine was honored with a Best Supporting Actor Academy Award for his portrayal of an abortionist in The Cider House Rules.

taken from : MSN

Enough people saw it that it played in my little town and Caine won an Academy Award.
[/quote]

I think you missed my point. A movie being about something doesn’t mean it is trying to pursuade you to believe a certain philosophy. Forrest Gump isn’t trying to force you to act like you are a pseudo-mentally deficient genius. Star Wars doesn’t want you to necessarily fly into space looking for Ewoks. Cider House Rules doesn’t necessarily want all women to get abortions. Instead, it offered a story about a concept. Why would anyone take it as more than that?..unless you look at the entire world in terms of “liberal vs conservative”. If you do, that’s sad. None of these movies were documentaries.

By the way, even though Spiderman did it, sticking to walls may not be for you.

56

[quote]CDM wrote:
I forgot to add another recent Pro-abortion movie was If These Walls Could Talk with Cher.[/quote]

If there are two things that Hollywood absolutely loves it’s abortion and homosexuality! (Not necessarily in that order).

57

[quote]ZEB wrote:
If there are two things that Hollywood absolutely loves it’s abortion and homosexuality! (Not necessarily in that order).[/quote]

Right. This is based on the two movies that were mentioned about abortion? Besides Wild Things that came out almost a decade ago, exactly how many movies are just rampant with gay sex as a focus of the movie? And we are talking about movies that actually did well at the box office.

The point is, you all are making huge generalizations and the numbers don’t seem to support that. So far, It has been said, "Then there is the military, always the evil entity that has to be fought. "

This isn’t true in any way. Always? Then it was stated, “How are cops portrayed? Ever in a good light?” What movies are you all watching? I can name ten movies that were blockbusters that don’t do this yet you all search for Cher movies to support your claim? Cher?! Wait, hold up, I just like saying that because I truly can’t believe it…CHER!? If you have to look for Cher movies to prove some abortion love in Hollywood, I would say there is no abortion love…just a shitload of generalizations going on just so you can have something to bitch about.

58

Hey Prof.

It is kind of hard to argue with you because it does not matter what is said, you will not accept it. It could be absolute proof beyond a shadow of a doubt, and you will not be able to accept it because it is not within your belief system.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
How often I religion put into a good light? Or are the preachers wild fanatics who want to take your money? Or portrayed as some control freak who has manipulated some town into a mini fascist regime. It is no wonder people are afraid of religion.

Professor X wrote:
This is due to movies? And not televangelists who get caught with hookers or publicly chastised for using the money sent in by aging grandmothers to buy a new addition to his already grandiose house? I will have to let Jimmy Swaggart and Tammy Fay Baker’s ex-cohort know that they had nothing to do with this image…according to you. [/quote]

So we are allowed to bring in events from 1987? I am supposed to only comment on movies from the last decade, (see below) but you are allowed to bring in events from 18 years ago?

Yes these were two ministries that definitely lost their way. But this is not just about televangelists. Religious people are often shown as uptight control freaks.

[quote] The Mage wrote:
Any pro-life movies out there? I think not, at least not in the mainstream. Though I have seen a hell of a lot portraying the pro choice position in a positive light.

Professor X wrote:
What movie in the past 10 years was a pro-choice flick? Please, give me one name of a movie that was all about a woman having an abortion and how great it was. Your generalizations are ridiculous. [/quote]

And here we have your time limit, and you twisting my statement. Others brought up a movie, and you just dismiss it. Oh it was an illegal abortion. Tell me when you see an illegal abortion in a movie, you don’t automatically think, “That wouldn’t happen if abortions were legal.” I know that is exactly what went through your head.

[quote] The Mage wrote:
Every stereotype about conservatives that was just presented in your statement above, they don’t like swearing, are all religious nuts, and are all prudes. (Ok, too many are prudes.) Where do you think you got those stereotypes? From movies.

Professor X wrote:
I got that stereotype from posts like the other poster I responded to…who assumed that because the Passion of The Christ was a religious movie that this makes it a “conservative” movie. Popular culture as well as many politicians seem to be using the misguided notion that being conservative equals being religious or having morals. The entire concept is treated as if ONLY conservatives would be religious or have strong morals. Instead of seeing The Passion of The Christ as a religious movie, it was automatically reduced to being “conservative”. I don’t see how you missed that but took it upon yourself to pretend as if I made up some false ideas from the conservative party. [/quote]

Bullshit. You had that stereotype way before that movie came out, and before anyone ever posted about any of this. How do I know this? Because I used to have the same stereotypes. In high school. Where did I get them? From movies and tv.

[quote] The Mage wrote:
How are cops portrayed? Ever in a good light? Only when they are the main character, and even then they are only one of maybe a couple of non idiot, non corrupt cops.

Professor X wrote:
That is utter bullshit and you know it. The majority of action flicks are about cops and usually it is based on “good cop vs criminals” or “good cop vs bad cops”. To deny that there is corruption in some police forces is completely ridiculous. To act as if there should never be movies about it is even more ridiciulous. Precinct 13, just released on DVD, was about a good cop against bad cops. Are you saying it was “liberal” because it dared to show that some cops were bad? Does this mean that conservative movies only involve pretending as if all cops are great people? Does this mean that, in essence, you want movies that gloss over the truth as long as it presents those you like in society in a positive manner? [/quote]

There you go again, taking some comment about movies, and twist it to say that I said there is no corruption in the police department. Are you arguing against what I am saying, or arguing against some made up character in your fantasy filled mind?

Yes there is corruption, but not at the level it is shown in the movies.

[quote] The Mage wrote:
Then there is the military, always the evil entity that has to be fought.

Professor X wrote:
Right, like in Band of Brothers? Finding Private Ryan? The Thin Red Line? Full Metal Jacket? Yeah, those all did that…some of the greatest war movie of all time in theater go against what you just said. [/quote]

Ok, I need to clarify a few things. I am not saying any of this is in all the movies. Like I said before, the movie business is there to make movies. What you will see is a sprinkling of liberalism here and there. Not in every movie, but in many movies. And if it is there, it is always liberal. Either it is neutral, pretending to be neutral, or liberal. This is what you don’t seem to be catching on to.

[quote] The Mage wrote:
Who is always the corrupt politician in movies? Republicans.

Professor X wrote:
There is a distinction? Please show me ONE movie that seperated “republicans” from all other politicians. The latest Triple X movie was about a corrupt politician and never once was it mentioned whose “side” he was on. The President in the movie was also the hero in the end, which disproves what you just wrote. [/quote]

Sorry, ain’t seen the movie. But they usually don’t say what party the person belongs to, but hint at it. He supported this issue, or that issue. Then the president, what party did he belong to? Did they say? Next time pay attention to the small things. You will catch something that tells what party they belong to.

Again sometimes they are neutral, like I said not every movie, but if it is there, it is there. Finding movies where it is not is not proof that it is not there. Maybe I should have been more specific about that.

[quote] The Mage wrote:
And the Passion of the Christ is a perfect example. Hollywood did not want that movie to be made. And in fact did everything they could to discredit it. And they did all they could to make F911 a big movie.

Professor X wrote:
Prove this. Hollywood didn’t want to lose money on a controversial film. It turned out to be a cash crop. According to you, Spiderman was a conservative movie because they were in court for 10 years (that film was orginally being worked on for a 1993 release date) trying to get that made into a movie. [/quote]

Can you ever argue without twisting what I am saying, or putting words into my mouth. Spiderman has nothing to do with this, it was a completely different issue. In fact I know nothing about the case, but I assume the fight was not to keep it out of the theaters, but a fight over the movie, which is completely opposite.

And the fact of the matter is that religious movies do real good at the box office. This is a fact that I read about 5 years ago in an article that pointed this out while pointing out that Hollywood kept ignoring the fact, and didn’t? like doing those types of movies. There are plenty of religious people out there who will see any religious movie made regardless.

And how much did this movie cost anyway? 25 mil. Easy to make back today. The first Star Wars move cost 11 mil, in 1978. (I thought it was 9, but found 11 recently.) And that was not a real large budget. The recent Star Wars was about $115 mil. 4.6 times as much. Risky? I don’t think so.

[quote] The Mage wrote:
Generally they are not as blatant about it as they were in the last example. Not all movies have anything really political in them, but if they do, it is almost always liberal.

Professor X wrote:
Again, utter BS. I have given you examples of movies that go against what you have stated. You have given nothing but mentioning The Passion of The Christ which was met with large dissatisfaction from the jewish community (I am sure many of which possibly own a few companies in the movie industry).
[/quote]

And you still don’t get it. I never said all movies, and in fact my last statement above I say that not all movies have anything political in them, so obviously you can find non political movies and television shows. But just because you might be able to find some where either they were not political, or they were too subtle for you to see it, does not mean they are not there.

I watch the Dead Zone. USA show based on the King novel. They have the religious guy who is corrupt, and crooked. Then he backs a politician who is an evil man. I don’t think they ever said what his political party is, but being backed by a minister, former bible salesman. Comes off as a right winger to me.

Oh yeah, then they have the Feds spying on people, kidnapping people, breaking into his house, and a whole host of other nasty little things.

Waterworld, a movie about the environmental disaster of global warming.

The Day After Tomorrow. Another global warming movie.

Thelma and Louise. (Oops, 1991, not within your time frame, but still 4 years closer then the Baker/Swaggert falls.) Men are evil movie.

How many movies can you find that are conservative?

Now one more issue, you tried to say that religion is neither conservative, nor liberal. I disagree. Conservatives attempt to keep what is good about religion. Even I, as an atheist know that religion is the result of years of thought and experience. So I am not so willing to throw out what has come before.

Liberals tend to want to throw out all the values of religion. Other then me, how many atheists do you know that are conservative? I don’t know any myself. I may have heard of one or two, but when you look at the people trying to remove religion, eliminate it, and completely destroy it, they are always liberals. Not conservatives but liberals.

I am even certain that many of the liberals who argue on this forum would disagree with you, saying there is no reason for religion, and that it is nothing but a form of “ignorance”. That those who believe are morons lacking in intelligence.

Liberalism seems to me to be almost an attempt to eliminate any Christian beliefs and values.

59

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Hey Prof.

It is kind of hard to argue with you because it does not matter what is said, you will not accept it. It could be absolute proof beyond a shadow of a doubt, and you will not be able to accept it because it is not within your belief system.
[/quote]

Ya Think?

60

Hey didn’t you guys know the new Star Wars movie was liberal and bashing Bush!!

Just kidding stop being bitches.