[quote]Professor X wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
<<< Overhead pressing isn’t so totally dominated by the posterior deltoid that no lateral deltoid development will occur.
Wow. Who the fuck wrote that no development AT ALL could occur? Is that what your goal is? Any development AT ALL? >>>[/quote]
I have a feeling Professor X didn’t catch this, but I’ll contend that overhead pressing will produce practically no development in the POSTERIOR head.
The lateral head is situated such that once the humerus is rotated past a certain fairly small amount the anterior deltoid becomes predominantly responsible for moving the elbows away from the body and overhead.
This is why lateral raises and upright rows, movements which avoid that rotation, target the lateral head more directly than overhead pressing movements which require that rotation.
I can’t remember all the correct terms, but the concept is undeniable.
I don’t do flys for the exact reason stated here. They are considerably less efficient than presses. In this instance the full body mentality actually holds water. There just isn’t a reason to do flys when other movements allow more weight and recruit more muscle groups. This principle does not apply to lateral raises because overhead presses do not recruit the lateral head like they do.
It’s 2 different things. Flys further isolate the pecs for no real reason and lateral raises recruit muscles that overhead pressing movements largely do not.
What do you guys think about flyes (read: pec deck, cable crossover) for at the end of a chest workout for getting a pump?
Surely after 2 or more pressing exercises they would lose their efficiency later on in the workout, again another good reason to include isolation exercises.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
<<< Overhead pressing isn’t so totally dominated by the posterior deltoid that no lateral deltoid development will occur.
Wow. Who the fuck wrote that no development AT ALL could occur? Is that what your goal is? Any development AT ALL? >>>
I have a feeling Professor X didn’t catch this, but I’ll contend that overhead pressing will produce practically no development in the POSTERIOR head.
The lateral head is situated such that once the humerus is rotated past a certain fairly small amount the anterior deltoid becomes predominantly responsible for moving the elbows away from the body and overhead.
This is why lateral raises and upright rows, movements which avoid that rotation, target the lateral head more directly than overhead pressing movements which require that rotation.
I can’t remember all the correct terms, but the concept is undeniable.
I don’t do flys for the exact reason stated here. They are considerably less efficient than presses. In this instance the full body mentality actually holds water. There just isn’t a reason to do flys when other movements allow more weight and recruit more muscle groups. This principle does not apply to lateral raises because overhead presses do not recruit the lateral like they do.
It’s 2 different things. Flys further isolate the pecs for non real reason and lateral raises recruit muscles that overhead pressing movements largely do not.[/quote]
I have a feeling Professor X didn’t catch this, but I’ll contend that overhead pressing will produce practically no development in the POSTERIOR head.
[/quote]
You got your Rows, Face Pulls, Dumbbell Power Cleans. And I’d even consider a rear delt fly a compound move since you’re working the mid-traps, rhomboids, and rear delts all at the same time.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
<<< I like what you’re saying here. [/quote]
I appreciate that, but then what are you arguing with Professor X about? On closer observation I saw that I actually just restated what he already said.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
You got your Rows, Face Pulls, Dumbbell Power Cleans. And I’d even consider a rear delt fly a compound move since you’re working the mid-traps, rhomboids, and rear delts all at the same time.[/quote]
I’m not sure of the significance you’re attaching here, but it does highlight the following point:
Who cares anymore what the hell anything is called? I’ll train and eat any way that works for me. If I had 5 people hang out with me while I train and they started debating what to call an exercise, method etc. that I was doing, why would I care at all which or if any of them was technically correct?
However on your point, I can’t think of ANY exercise that is actually an isolation movement. We’ve been over this before. Even wrist curls are going to involve the biceps and delts and maybe even your pecs once you start to strain.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I can’t think of ANY exercise that is actually an isolation movement.
[/quote]
Nautalis made a triceps extension machine that was grip free. And if you’re really anal you can get inventive with ankle straps to make some cable exercises more pure isolation.
Of course, one of the greatest money moves, the Good-Morning, is almost an isolation exercise since it involves just hip extension.
Really, though, this thread has just gotten silly. I’m quite ashamed of myself for responding so much.