About Islam

Some people may not like the idea of your complete system. I am one. So where does that leave me?

man iam not trying to offend you in anyway but how can you leave god made religion and opt for a man made one?

god almighty is devine and when he puts down a religion you must be sure that it misses nothing.

but man from the beginning was a sinner from adam and eve to now evey one makes mistakes so how can you follow a man made religion?

i know that this is your descision but i think that you should be reading into islam christianty and judaism to see god’s magnificent creation.

god created you and u don’t pray for him? what if your boss gave you a raise wouldn’t you thank him?
now what about god who gave u a LIFE, u simply walk away?!!

i personally don’t belive in man made religions but i like some ideaologies form these religions, iam a muslim but i also respect and like alot of teachings of Confucius.

[quote]dyskee wrote:

i personally don’t belive in man made religions but i like some ideaologies form these religions, iam a muslim but i also respect and like alot of teachings of Confucius. [/quote]

Give me an example of a man-made religion. How do you know Confucius wasn’t speaking the words of God? How do you know the Romans or Greeks didn’t get it right?

dk44 i don’t understand what you mean by saying where does this leave you iam sorry can u explain , because english is not my first language.

as for the complete system islam has one of the complete systems that a state could be built upon first and foremost:

  1. an economic system
  2. we have a coplete islamic law called
    " shari’a"
    3)we have hadiths also and fiqhs to rely upon.
    4)we had one of the best armies at the time

so what else do u need to build a complete state?

[quote]dyskee wrote:

[/quote]

For a high school kid, you sure have some strong opinions. Anyway, glad to see that you’re taking a second to format your posts.

I disagree with the idea that Muslims have made “a strong come back”. The community (if we can even speak of it in these terms) has never been more divided and corrupted. Unless power is taken away from the tyrants who rule most majority-Muslim countries, the situation will not improve.

And the idea that there are “wars of civilizations” going on is preposterous. There are wars of interests, where the strong pillages and takes the spoils, periods. To see anything else is very naive and would demand distorting reality.

As for the Anti-Christ, HeadHunter believes it’s Obama, so it must true. I mean, he’s not black, nor white, he’s devilishly handsome, smooth talker, a commie and he refuses to wear patriotic pins. It has to be him.

[quote]dyskee wrote:
dk44 i don’t understand what you mean by saying where does this leave you iam sorry can u explain , because english is not my first language.

as for the complete system islam has one of the complete systems that a state could be built upon first and foremost:

  1. an economic system
  2. we have a coplete islamic law called
    " shari’a"
    3)we have hadiths also and fiqhs to rely upon.
    4)we had one of the best armies at the time

so what else do u need to build a complete state?[/quote]

What’s a hadith? Sorry mate, but if your going to be explaining this to us please don’t use jargon.

If I may:

  1. Could you delve further into this economic system? I always like reading this stuff.

  2. If shari’a law hadn’t been twisted by corrupt individuals in a position of power, I’m sure it’d be great.

  3. ??

  4. But not anymore. What changed?

It seems like if it was a perfect system that all had to abide by, it would have stayed that way. Otherwise you’re implying God somehow fucked up, which I seriously doubt.

EDIT: Edited for spelling etc.

[quote]lixy wrote:

As for the Anti-Christ, HeadHunter believes it’s Obama… he’s devilishly handsome…[/quote]

Excuse me? Handsome? Him?

[quote]Makavali wrote:
How do you know Confucius wasn’t speaking the words of God? [/quote]

Did he ever make that claim?

thnx lixy.

belive individual muslims have mad a comeback however they need to be united so that we can see the difference.

and i can see where your going with the war of interests , every body wants petrol and we have alot and we are weak because we are corrupted and we are not ruling by god’s laws thus powerful nations are smacking us on the head.

lastly i don’t belive obama is the antichrists because we have some proficies that are yet to be fullfilled before the day of judgement i can post them if u want .

[quote]lixy wrote:
Makavali wrote:
How do you know Confucius wasn’t speaking the words of God?

Did he ever make that claim?[/quote]

Bad example. I’m just pointing out that all of us could be very wrong in our belief systems, hence my personal belief that you should do your own thing and let others be, provided they do the same to you.

chusin my english isn’t that bad actually i got an A in English as a first language , but there are some terms that i have diffuculty to understand sometimes and it’s usually slang.

to makavali:

1)a hadith are some rules said by the prophet on certain occasions for certain situations and the fiqh are interpretation of some versed of the quran and hadiths made by moslem scholars.

2)as for the economic system give me some time to write it and explain it.

3)shari’a wasn’t twisted by people but we don’t rule by it anymore only saudi arabia does , thats why we are cursed because we abandoned god’s law and seeked man made law ie: constitution.

  1. as for the army back then muslims had faith in their religion and power they had a cause, now their “iman” ie: faith is weak .

[quote]dyskee wrote:
lastly i don’t belive obama is the antichrists because we have some proficies that are yet to be fullfilled before the day of judgement i can post them if u want .[/quote]

Lighten up! That was a joke. When it comes to the future, Allahou a’lam.

[quote]dyskee wrote:
thnx lixy.

belive individual muslims have mad a comeback however they need to be united so that we can see the difference.[/quote]

Wait a minute, Thanks to the US president the Arab nations are uniting in a joint effort of support for each-other. They are not grateful in the way which it is happening, granted, but it is a great thing IMHO.

[quote]
and i can see where your going with the war of interests , every body wants petrol and we have alot and we are weak because we are corrupted and we are not ruling by god’s laws thus powerful nations are smacking us on the head.[/quote]

God’s laws? Is this a serious assertion? Whatever happened to Man’s sense of patience and reason… God had nothing to do with it, hate to tell you.

[quote]
lastly i don’t belive obama is the antichrists because we have some proficies that are yet to be fullfilled before the day of judgement i can post them if u want .[/quote]

You’re relying on religion and heat-stroke induced hallucinations to determine foreign politics? That system of logic is doomed to fail, again, sorry to say…

For the record, I am a huge fan of the middle east - people, culture, and land. I speak Farsi and modern Egyptian out of respect and interest of the Middle Eastern countries, and local Arabic groups to which I assimilate to. They are kind and rational people, Muslim and all. Why you ascertain those opinions is something I would expect from a zealot.

I am not attacking, I would like to read what you have to say about your fellow kindred and their opinions.

P.S., Muslimgauze is one of my favorite artists.

Here is the complete economic system.

The Islamic economic system can be described as a mixture of the pros of capitalism and socialism without their cons.

There are 3 cornerstones to the Islamic economic system:

  1. Zakkat �??charity�??: the “taxing of certain goods, such as harvest, with an eye to allocating these taxes to expenditures that are also explicitly defined, such as aid to the needy.” It is an obligation on Muslims to pay 2.5% of their income to specified categories in society when their annual wealth exceeds a minimum level (nisab)

  2. Gharar - “the interdiction of chance … that is, of the presence of any element of uncertainty, in a contract (which excludes not only insurance but also the lending of money without participation in the risks)”

  3. Ribba �??interest and usury�??: and is forbidden
    Quran about ribba
    �??Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil’s influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, God permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with God. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever�?? (Qur’an 2:275)

  4. jizia: I don�??t know the word in English but the jizia was paid by non muslims who wanted to be protected by the muslims, back then they were given the choice to convert to islam or pay jizia to be under muslims protection.

These money were collected and sent to �??beit al mal�?? ie: the treasury. Where they were to be devided to build the state and the army and so , also to help the poor and needy.
It was once said that their shall be no poor muslim if all the muslims payed their zakkat and that�??s how it was in the days of the prophet �??pbuh�?? but now not all mislims pay which is why we are poor.

The roots of capitalism and free markets can be traced back to the Islamic Golden Age and Muslim Agricultural Revolution, where the first market economy and earliest forms of merchant capitalism took root between the 8th�??12th centuries, which some refer to as “Islamic capitalism”.

A vigorous monetary economy was created on the basis of the expanding levels of circulation of a stable high-value currency (the dinar).

Innovative new business techniques and forms of business organisation were introduced by economists, merchants and traders during this time.

Such innovations included the earliest trading companies, big businesses, contracts, bills of exchange, long-distance international trade, the first forms of partnership (mufawada) such as limited partnerships (mudaraba), and the earliest forms of credit, debt, profit, loss, capital (al-mal), capital accumulation (nama al-mal), circulating capital, capital expenditure, revenue, cheques, promissory notes, trusts (see Waqf), startup companies, savings accounts, transactional accounts, pawning, loaning, exchange rates, bankers, money changers, ledgers, deposits, assignments, the double-entry bookkeeping system, and lawsuits.

Organizational enterprises similar to corporations independent from the state also existed in the medieval Islamic world, while the agency institution was also introduced. Many of these early capitalist concepts were adopted and further advanced in medieval Europe from the 13th century onwards.

the systems of contract relied upon by merchants was very effective. Merchants would buy and sell on commission, with money loaned to them by wealthy investors, or a joint investment of several merchants, who were often Muslim, Christian and Jewish. Recently, a collection of documents was found in an Egyptian synagogue shedding a very detailed and human light on the life of medieval Middle Eastern merchants.

Business partnerships would be made for many commercial ventures, and bonds of kinship enabled trade networks to form over huge distances.

Networks developed during this time enabled a world in which money could be promised by a bank in Baghdad and cashed in Spain, creating the cheque system of today.

Each time items passed through the cities along this extraordinary network, the city imposed a tax, resulting in high prices once reaching the final destination.

These innovations made by Muslims and Jews laid the foundations for the modern economic system.

Also the economic system was based on the quran, shari�??a, hadiths and fiqhs.

Islam accepts markets as the basic co-ordinating mechanism of the economic system. Islamic teaching holds that the market, through perfect competition, allows consumers to obtain desired goods, producers to sell their goods, at a mutually acceptable price.
The three necessary conditions for an operational markets are said to be upheld in Islamic primary sources:
�?� Freedom of exchange: the Qur’an calls on believers to engage in trade, and rejects the contention that trade is forbidden.
�?� Private ownership
�?� Security of contract: the Qur’an calls for the fulfillment and observation of contracts. The longest verse of the Qur’an deals with commercial contracts involving immediate and future payments.

�??Islam said that 9/10 of profits are in trading �??

How to deal with interest:�??ribba�??

Islamic economic institutions, not just the Islamic bank but all those connected with Islamic banking operates on the basis of “zero interest.”

For example, purchasing a vehicle from an Islamic bank under a “zero interest” loan.

The procedure, generally, is that the client tells the Islamic bank which vehicle he or she would like to own.

The Islamic bank then purchases that vehicle in its name, and sells it to the client at a marked-up price, under an agreement that the new marked-up price of the vehicle must be paid in a certain number of instalments of a certain time period.

Thus a $20,000 car might cost $35,000 if purchased from an Islamic bank at “zero interest,” 5 year loan. Of course, the bank charges the extra $15,000 on top of the $20,000 cost of the car because money has a time value (that is to say, a payment of $20,000 5 years from now is worth less than a payment of $20,000 today).

This is also why a $20,000 car could cost $35,000 if the purchase were financed by an interest bearing loan issued by a non-Islamic financial institution.

This transaction utilises valid sales transactions called murabaha, but violates Islamic law by the bank usually not taking delivery or connecting two independent contracts or taking of legally enforceable guarantees from the buyer.

Usually, time value of money is compensated to the lender by the lender charging the borrower interest on the principal amount of the loan.

Islam prohibits time value of money in itself as producing no value - in conjunction with other value driven agreements the idea is entertained.

In the case of Islamic banking, the lost time value is compensated by utilising a sales contract, charging a mark-up on the home or vehicle that the client might be seeking to purchase by way of a loan.

The vehicle or mortgage usually remains in the name of the bank, until the principal loan including the mark-up has been paid. In the case of a business loan, instead of charging interest over the time that the principal amount is loaned out, an Islamic bank will demand a certain percentage of the borrower’s business profits for an indefinite period of time.

So it is the principle of sharing and the bank is a partner who obtains losses as profits.

This is because of a law in the Islamic financial theory that you are not allowed to enjoy the profits if you did not take its risk based on the famous tradition, return is determined by exposure to risk/liability.

Under a conventional interest based loan it is possible to “call” the loan if the interest rate drops and the borrower finds that he can find cheaper financing (i.e. pays off the entire loan before the end of its term, thus paying less interest).

However, there is no way to call a loan issued by an Islamic bank. Thus, while the borrower from an Islamic bank is protected against interest rate increases, the borrower cannot benefit from interest rate drops.

Today there are many financial institutions, even in the Western world, offering financial services and products in accordance with the rules of the Islamic finance.

For example, legal changes introduced by Chancellor Gordon Brown in 2003, have enabled British banks and building societies to offer so-called Muslim mortgages for house purchase.

In 2004 the UK’s first stand alone Sharia’a compliant bank was launched, the Islamic Bank of Britain. They offer products and services to its UK customers that utilise the Islamic financial principles; such as Mudaraba, Murabaha, Musharaka and Qard.

The Islamic finance sector was worth between 300 and 500 billion dollars (237 and 394 billion euros) as of September 2006, compared with 200 billion dollars in 2004.

The number of Islamic retail banks and investment funds number in their hundreds and many Western financial institutions offer products that comply with Sharia law, including Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Lloyds TSB and UBS.

Ps: got some refrences from sunnipath , islam .com and wikipedia an a friend of mine.

but i want to tell all the guys here don’t look everything in wikipedia beacuse some stuff is messed up there i take only what’s right.

and sorry for the formatting because i wrote this in a word document before posting it. good night and see u tomorrow inshallah " if god wills"

[quote]dyskee wrote:
chusin my english isn’t that bad actually i got an A in English as a first language , but there are some terms that i have diffuculty to understand sometimes and it’s usually slang.

to makavali:

1)a hadith are some rules said by the prophet on certain occasions for certain situations and the fiqh are interpretation of some versed of the quran and hadiths made by moslem scholars.

2)as for the economic system give me some time to write it and explain it.

3)shari’a wasn’t twisted by people but we don’t rule by it anymore only saudi arabia does , thats why we are cursed because we abandoned god’s law and seeked man made law ie: constitution.

  1. as for the army back then muslims had faith in their religion and power they had a cause, now their “iman” ie: faith is weak .

[/quote]

  1. Thanks!

  2. Sharia - Wikipedia begs to differ.

  3. Don’t! No need to go to all that effort, just a quick link will suffice. EDIT: Ha. Too late. Thanks, though.

  4. I believe you’ll find it is a combination of:
    a.) Western oppression. Yes it does exist, but it’s not as big as most people make out (anymore)
    b.) Lack of faith
    c.) Fundamentalists destroying the ‘proper’ image of Islam, prompting the West to see it as something inherently evil.

You still haven’t answered my other question - what of other religions? What does the Qur’an say of them? Examples would be Buddhism etc.

BluePfaltz when i said ruling by god’s law i meant ruling in accordance to shari’a and not to constitution.

and i didn’t understand lixy’s joke about obama i thought he was talking about the judgement day.

and lastly which opinions are u reffering to iam sorry?

to lixy it’ll take me awhile to understand the jokes :smiley: and how do u know alahua’lam??

[quote]What I said before:
It seems like if it was a perfect system that all had to abide by, it would have stayed that way. Otherwise you’re implying God somehow fucked up, which I seriously doubt.[/quote]

^^ Like I said before. That is whats wrong with a religion that looks at black and white issues.

If Shari’a was perfect, it would still be common practice.

[quote]dyskee wrote:

to lixy it’ll take me awhile to understand the jokes :smiley: and how do u know alahua’lam??[/quote]

Last I checked, he’s Muslim.

seriously lixy is a muslim??! lol

shari’a is perfect and u got some countries that rule by it like saudi arabia iran but here in egypt we rule by the NATIONALIST constitution.

also as i have mentioned before the islamix ottman state was perfect because it ruled by the shari’a hence when it power was growing so quickly the west allied with attaturk the nationalist to tear it down, and i won’t wait for u to ask me why was the muslim state torn down when it was supposed to be perfect???

i’ll tell you my friend because nothing is perfect but god almighty the corruption began to infiltrate its infrastructure and thus they were big AND WEAK.

the quran doen’t mention religions other than christianity or judaism others are considered atheiests for the reasons i told u before