[quote]MikeShank wrote:
derek-compliments are like nicknames-you can’t give one to yourself![/quote]
Was that really part of your argument? If so, yikes! I think you need to slow down and think a little more clearly.
Anywho, where did I compliment myself? Was “open-minded” a compliment to myself or an observation. Please be more lucid when you try to insult someone.
[quote]derek wrote:
My baby came at the wrong time, the wrong place (in life) and perhaps to the wrong person (or so I thought). I love my baby so much it scares me. I am getting married to his mom in May and I don’t see what or who could make me any happier. How goddamn selfish does a person need to be to have an abortion because it’s not the right time? If I am going to make a judgement or a mistake in judgment when diciding when a cluster of cells becomes a human, I’d rather err on the side or morality and goodness by calling it human at conception rather than some arbitrary time period that I chose to make myself feel better “Oh it wasn’t a baby when I got it sucked out of me so it’s ok. It wasn’t going to be a baby for another couple of weeks anyway”. Disgusting![/quote]
Well, great. Happy for ya.
Did it occur to you that not everyone is exactly the same as you and your partner? Maybe not every pregnant woman is in a financial, emotional, or psychological position to be able to properly support a child.
T-chick. Did it ever occur to you to READ my post before replying to it? We were not ready emotionally, financially or any other way to have a baby but we did anyway! We didn’t use any of the excuses you brought up even though they all applied to us. We sucked it up, grew up, sacrificed and struggled and have become the happiest parents I know! The easy way out never occured to us… especially when there was another life on the line. Any other way is pure cowardice.
derek, your decision to keep the baby, given the situation, would not sound very intelligent to many and many intelligent people. I am not saying it is wrong, but bringing a new life given you circumstances might not be the best idea.
derek: Congratulations on becoming a dad. It’s a hell of a thing isn’t it? I still remember how I felt when my kids were born.
Now having said that, I would like to point out that any guy/girl with a pair of functioning body parts can make a child. The true test of whether you make a good parent is if your kids make noise in a movie theater, or annoy other people in restaurants, etc. You sound like your heart’s in the right place to start off, so good luck. It ain’t any easier from now on.
Derek (I think it was him that said it) was right about abortion being the easy way out. The guilt of terminating a pregnancy has got to be easier to deal with than raising a child. Now having said that, I would like to add that it is not always the best idea for folks to take the hard way. In fact, I am of the opinion that many of the folks I see around here in Tallahassee had no business procreating in the first place. We are not dying off as a race – we are over-populated. Let’s get some responsible use of birth control kicking a little harder around here.
As for abortion being murder, I stand by my original post in saying that it just isn’t until the fetus can survive independent of its mother. C’mon guys, we can classify a developing fetus as a parasitic infection of foreign material, for cryin’ out loud. There is nothing magical about procreation – it’s a natural process like drinking twenty beers and needing to pee afterwards. Is the fetus alive? Yes. Is it human? No. It is a fetus. It is not human until we can separate it from the mom and have it survive.
I am still taking applications for lab assistants to help me develop and market the Fetal Environment Pods I was talking about earlier, and on the other thread. Then we won’t have to keep having this same old debate about abortion anymore. I mean: artificial uterus… how hard can it be? We’re gonna make a friggin’ mint!
Thanks for the congrats… It was actually two years ago last Saturday and having a two year old to me and my fiance at least is no harder than caring for a newborn.
As far as defining a human with the ability to survive on his/her own… A newborn or even a toddler cannot survive on it’s own. No protection from cold, heat, no provision for food/drink, no protection from injury/predators.
And what do you mean a fetus is not human? What is it? Canine? Feline? A bear? What?
If you eat a walnut, are you eating a tree?
[quote]derek wrote:
Thanks for the congrats… It was actually two years ago last Saturday and having a two year old to me and my fiance at least is no harder than caring for a newborn.
As far as defining a human with the ability to survive on his/her own… A newborn or even a toddler cannot survive on it’s own. No protection from cold, heat, no provision for food/drink, no protection from injury/predators.[/quote]
This is really splitting hairs, I think. You know what I meant. I meant survive independent of the womb, without being attached. This is how you become an individual, and not some apparatus which is stuck to a woman. You are right in that human children still need nurturing after birth, but this is not the same thing as I was talking about.
Have you ever seen a fetus? Funny thing about them is it’s hard to tell the difference between a horse, pig, monkey, or human fetus until it’s well along the way to maturation. Pretty cool, huh? I like the walnut and tree anology, Toshindo. That’s funny.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
derek wrote:
Thanks for the congrats… It was actually two years ago last Saturday and having a two year old to me and my fiance at least is no harder than caring for a newborn.
As far as defining a human with the ability to survive on his/her own… A newborn or even a toddler cannot survive on it’s own. No protection from cold, heat, no provision for food/drink, no protection from injury/predators.
This is really splitting hairs, I think. You know what I meant. I meant survive independent of the womb, without being attached. This is how you become an individual, and not some apparatus which is stuck to a woman. You are right in that human children still need nurturing after birth, but this is not the same thing as I was talking about.
And what do you mean a fetus is not human? What is it? Canine? Feline? A bear? What?
Have you ever seen a fetus? Funny thing about them is it’s hard to tell the difference between a horse, pig, monkey, or human fetus until it’s well along the way to maturation. Pretty cool, huh? I like the walnut and tree anology, Toshindo. That’s funny.[/quote]
I don’t split hairs when there is a human life on the line.
And, yes I have seen a fetus. I am not concerned with what it looks like. I am concerned with what it IS… a HUMAN LIFE. Damn, this is simple!
Abortion is murder at any stage. From a couple of cells to an old man or woman. It is a person. Don’t want kids? Don’t fuck. Kids are a known side effect of fucking. I don’t give a shit about your social position finances, or how one got pregnant. The baby is a baby no matter what. If you have an abortion, you are a murderer. Doctors who do abortions are murderers. No different than Susan Smith or Scott Peterson.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Abortion is murder at any stage. From a couple of cells to an old man or woman. It is a person. Don’t want kids? Don’t fuck. Kids are a known side effect of fucking. I don’t give a shit about your social position finances, or how one got pregnant. The baby is a baby no matter what. If you have an abortion, you are a murderer. Doctors who do abortions are murderers. No different than Susan Smith or Scott Peterson.[/quote]
Wow! I can’t disagree. I realize that doctors aren’t cold-blooded killers but if a human life is purposely extinguished what else are you? Why is it that assisted suicide is very illegal and Kavorkian is evil when he HELPS others end their lives with thier blessing but killing a helpless baby before it can take it’s first breath is ok?
And a blow-job is cannibalism…
[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
If you eat a walnut, are you eating a tree?[/quote]
[quote]skor wrote:
And a blow-job is cannibalism…
ToShinDo wrote:
If you eat a walnut, are you eating a tree?
[/quote]
Yes, you are… in it’s earliest stage of development. What, do you think you were eating? A zebra?
Human life is human life no matter what stage of development it may be in when you look at it.
Since a human fetus (or earlier stage) must be classified as SOMETHING, what else other than HUMAN could it be? Answer THAT! (intellegently)
[quote]skor wrote:
And a blow-job is cannibalism…
Only if you swallow… but I bet you knew that already!
[quote]derek wrote:
skor wrote:
And a blow-job is cannibalism…
[/quote]
Only if you swallow… but I bet you knew that already!
[quote]Timmeah wrote:
derek wrote:
Please disagree with me and give me your address so I can come rip YOUR fucking head off and throw you away in a medical waste bag. Other than that, I have no opinion.
That’s exactly the kind of attitude that irritates me the most about the pro-life group.[/quote]
Agreed. I also love the zealous -pro-lifers who bomb clinics full of doctors, nurses, and yes, even women pregnant with the very fetuses they want to save! (Please note that I am NOT implying that all pro-life people are such terrorists. Just one extreme- I don’t want to open that can of worms!)
So to Derek and others: When a woman takes birth control and prevents her uteral lining from accepting a fertilized egg she’s killing a week old human life, thus birth control should be illegal, correct?
Another question, is any collection of cells that has the potential to become a human being itself a human life?
Yes, you are correct. If you puposefully prevent a fertilized egg from attaching you are commiting homocide.
A group of cells that have the potential of becoming human life is sperm and eggs. If the two have already met it is already a human life.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Yes, you are correct. If you puposefully prevent a fertilized egg from attaching you are commiting homocide.
A group of cells that have the potential of becoming human life is sperm and eggs. If the two have already met it is already a human life.[/quote]
Homocide according to whom? You? Who else shares this view and is it enough for anyone to change the concept legally? The answer to that is no which is why there is still debate.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Yes, you are correct. If you puposefully prevent a fertilized egg from attaching you are commiting homocide.
[/quote]
Ok. Just wanted to confirm that you believe hormonal birth control should be illegal.