Abortion Kills Mostly Blacks

[Big_Boss]

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
apbt55 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:

Thanks…you fail. You generalize too much…

Did it on purpose, because it is a general problem, not just pertaining to one subject.

I can sum up most of the problems we see to three words:

“accountability and responsibility”

but that is probably to general.

It really is that simple.

If everyone in the world would be accountable for their actions and take responsibility for the consequences of their actions it would go along way to help us solve many of our problems.

Sorry that is just how i feel.
[/quote]

So tell me were am I arguing against that? Considering the argument made by posters who supposedly have “conservative” views is that “liberal” views and programs are responsible for the accountability and responsibility of individuals who make their own choices. Make up your mind…since its that simple.

[AssOnGrass]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:

What’s the huge one in your opinion? Racism?

I’m not being facetious, just want to know what your opinion is.

LOL![/quote]

I’m sorry but I thought you were pretty ambiguous in your reference to the “huge problem”.

It could have been a number of things you were referencing in that instance. Sorry I didn’t assume what you meant and wanted clarification before I retorted or agreed.

Damn me and my wanting to understand where you are coming from.

[Professor_X]

[quote]jawara wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jawara wrote:
On another note, lets say I was a racist and I wanted to kill black people.
I would keep them poor, uneducated,malnourished,give them drugs, and do whatever I could to kill themselves.

Inner city schools suck. We keep throwing money at them yet it never seems to work. I say home schooling would be better. If I were a welfare mom thats what I’d do.

Even if the drugs were pumped into the the ghetto by “the man” it doesn mean that you have to use them. I’d sell them if I had to and use the money to put one of my family members through school. Havent alot of immigrants done that?

Being sexually active can kill you. AIDS is an STD. If more black people practised chastity (a conservitive value) the spread would stop. Instead a “entitlement” mentality … do a google of the words “stop AIDS” I don’t see anything about chastity. Couple this with high abortion, and crime and I see the death of a race of people. And you think liberals are your freinds??? They want to increase abortion. They tell you that it’s ok to sleep around with lots of women, they tell the black woman they don’t need a man to raise a kid the government will provide, they pass out condoms and yet black women are getting AIDS faster than anyone else. The solution to these problems are not liberal based. I know I’m going to sound like a freak when I say this but the Bible can save us… Keyword BIBLE like Biblebelt like conservitive.

Because you think people who vote Democrat don’t believe in God?

Not all of them but alot of them.[/quote]

And you think ALL “conservatives” are staunch Christians?

[Professor_X]

[quote]jawara wrote:

Now your just being silly. I preach to no one,
[/quote]

Uh…why not? There’s a pretty big push in the Bible about witnessing and testimony.

[apbt55]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

Thanks…you fail. You generalize too much…

Did it on purpose, because it is a general problem, not just pertaining to one subject.

I can sum up most of the problems we see to three words:

“accountability and responsibility”

but that is probably to general.

It really is that simple.

If everyone in the world would be accountable for their actions and take responsibility for the consequences of their actions it would go along way to help us solve many of our problems.

Sorry that is just how i feel.

So tell me were am I arguing against that? Considering the argument made by posters who supposedly have “conservative” views is that “liberal” views and programs are responsible for the accountability and responsibility of individuals who make their own choices. Make up your mind…since its that simple.[/quote]

Well then you don’t hold a completely liberalist view. At least as this country defiens liberalism.

The liberalist view on crime would be well the criminal really isn’t responsible for his acts, his father treated him badly and society forced him to be that way.

or lets look at our schools where mediocricy is celebrated. Oh who cares if your answer was wrong it is still a good and valid answer.

The far leftist liberals have been pushing this agenda, maybe you have not, i don’t know what you do with your life.

We can see it in every facet of life and it is creating the ideal that we are not responsible or accountable for anything we do or anything around us.

but I hate to say it is a liberal thing because there are plenty of so called republicans or conservatives that push the same agenda, which in facts makes them liberals.

It is like McCain ran as a republican but he is defintely not a conservative republican.

but this not only goes for responsibility of a person to them themselves. It is the responsibility of people to each other in society, including that of a mother to a child or white man to a black man or a black man to white man.

Ok now define your ideology. A liberalist would say to tax the person making money and give it to the person on welfare, which in essence keeps them there. A conservative would say let the person with money who can create jobs keep that money and pay the person who was on welfare to do a job, which may help him get more education and experience to get a better job.

These are truths of the ideologies, not a label people will apply to themselves.

[doubleh]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.

Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.

But that isn’t the point you made and it isn’t the point others are making. they are trying to blame “liberals” for why the black family unit isn’t whole while ignoring all of those GIGANTIC SOCIAL ISSUES that led to the creation of many of those programs to start with. The initial problem was NOT that blacks weren’t working hard enough to succeed. The initial problem was that all of society at the time was geared against the success of blacks in general. For every individual who made it to a higher social status, many were kept behind no matter how hard they worked.

This is not something that was instigated by Welfare and Welfare is not to blame for why poor kids don’t think about safe sex or don’t have complete family units.

Why scapegoat these issues while ignoring the huge one that is at the base of it all?[/quote]

Prof X I disagree with much of what you said in this thread but the beginning of your 2nd paragraph is a fair point. Social programs were designed to “right the wrongs” of the past by - to use a contemporary phrase - “spreading the wealth around”

The blaming of liberals for the dysfunction of the black family is only a half-truth. Was the black family unit broken BEFORE Civil Rights? I don’t know - maybe someone has some data. But the point several here are trying to make is this - the liberal social programs (LSPs) that were touted as a fix, as a way to HELP black society work up to equality with whites through temporary monetary aid, in fact had the exact opposite effect. They created what we now call the “welfare state”. Follow:

1. Black society was (obviously) disproportionately lower socio-economically post-Civil Rights (b/c of said social issues).

2. LSPs were designed to remedy this by providing federal aid until the recipient could climb the ladder. Had they worked as intended, today we should see an equal distribution of races across the welfare spectrum (adjusted for population). We do not. WHY?

-A racist would say it’s because blacks are lazy.

-A liberal would say what you did, it’s because the system was, and still is, holding them down. I think this was mostly true in the 60’s, but became less true with each passing year to the point that today (as evidenced by the election) that it is a very minor issue indeed. So contemporarily speaking, I don’t agree with your argument that “the man” is still a big factor here.

-A conservative would say it’s because the LSPs, by rewarding inaction and poverty with free money, CREATED a system whereby it’s easier to stay poor and get government cheese than work your ass off to get out of poverty.

So to get back at the aborion issue, yes obviously finances have a huge impact on abortion rates. We all agree poor people will have more abortions. But the self-perpetuating LSP system serves to keep more blacks in the lower income brackets; therefore, the LSPs do indirectly have an impact as to why blacks have more abortions. THAT is why we conservatives blame liberal social policy for much of what ails the minority community.

Let me throw one more thing out there re: abortions and the black community. What about the impact of black pop culture. Is Bill Cosby right?

Discuss.

[Professor_X]

[quote]doubleh wrote:
Professor X wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.

Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.

But that isn’t the point you made and it isn’t the point others are making. they are trying to blame “liberals” for why the black family unit isn’t whole while ignoring all of those GIGANTIC SOCIAL ISSUES that led to the creation of many of those programs to start with. The initial problem was NOT that blacks weren’t working hard enough to succeed. The initial problem was that all of society at the time was geared against the success of blacks in general. For every individual who made it to a higher social status, many were kept behind no matter how hard they worked.

This is not something that was instigated by Welfare and Welfare is not to blame for why poor kids don’t think about safe sex or don’t have complete family units.

Why scapegoat these issues while ignoring the huge one that is at the base of it all?

Prof X I disagree with much of what you said in this thread but the beginning of your 2nd paragraph is a fair point. Social programs were designed to “right the wrongs” of the past by - to use a contemporary phrase - “spreading the wealth around”

The blaming of liberals for the dysfunction of the black family is only a half-truth. Was the black family unit broken BEFORE Civil Rights? I don’t know - maybe someone has some data. But the point several here are trying to make is this - the liberal social programs (LSPs) that were touted as a fix, as a way to HELP black society work up to equality with whites through temporary monetary aid, in fact had the exact opposite effect. They created what we now call the “welfare state”. Follow:

1. Black society was (obviously) disproportionately lower socio-economically post-Civil Rights (b/c of said social issues).

2. LSPs were designed to remedy this by providing federal aid until the recipient could climb the ladder. Had they worked as intended, today we should see an equal distribution of races across the welfare spectrum (adjusted for population). We do not. WHY?

-A racist would say it’s because blacks are lazy.

-A liberal would say what you did, it’s because the system was, and still is, holding them down. I think this was mostly true in the 60’s, but became less true with each passing year to the point that today (as evidenced by the election) that it is a very minor issue indeed. So contemporarily speaking, I don’t agree with your argument that “the man” is still a big factor here.[/quote]

Dude, you didn’t understand one damn thing I’ve written if you think that is my stance. How many times in this thread alone have I written that the primary argument is whether these programs are needed RIGHT NOW? Why would I write that if I felt “the man” was still the largest factor holding some black Americans back?

Maybe you need to read slower before you try to interpret my argument when it was clearly stated to begin with.

I am not a liberal or a “conservative”. You do not know my argument before I make it.

[doubleh]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Which is in large part because of many of these programs that some of you claim were of no help at all. Affirmative Action WAS needed when it was started. Anyone denying that is living on some other planet or has their head up their ass because this country was not going to politely start treating blacks as human beings without being forced.

The only real debate is whether some of these programs are needed right now.
[/quote]

EXACTLY. But yet you contradict your past staements with this one…

[PRCalDude]

[quote]
I am not a liberal or a “conservative”. You do not know my argument before I make it. [/quote]

The problem is that the SNR is getting too low in here due to excessive emotionalism.

[apbt55]

[quote]doubleh wrote:
Professor X wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.

Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.

But that isn’t the point you made and it isn’t the point others are making. they are trying to blame “liberals” for why the black family unit isn’t whole while ignoring all of those GIGANTIC SOCIAL ISSUES that led to the creation of many of those programs to start with. The initial problem was NOT that blacks weren’t working hard enough to succeed. The initial problem was that all of society at the time was geared against the success of blacks in general. For every individual who made it to a higher social status, many were kept behind no matter how hard they worked.

This is not something that was instigated by Welfare and Welfare is not to blame for why poor kids don’t think about safe sex or don’t have complete family units.

Why scapegoat these issues while ignoring the huge one that is at the base of it all?

Prof X I disagree with much of what you said in this thread but the beginning of your 2nd paragraph is a fair point. Social programs were designed to “right the wrongs” of the past by - to use a contemporary phrase - “spreading the wealth around”

The blaming of liberals for the dysfunction of the black family is only a half-truth. Was the black family unit broken BEFORE Civil Rights? I don’t know - maybe someone has some data. But the point several here are trying to make is this - the liberal social programs (LSPs) that were touted as a fix, as a way to HELP black society work up to equality with whites through temporary monetary aid, in fact had the exact opposite effect. They created what we now call the “welfare state”. Follow:

1. Black society was (obviously) disproportionately lower socio-economically post-Civil Rights (b/c of said social issues).

2. LSPs were designed to remedy this by providing federal aid until the recipient could climb the ladder. Had they worked as intended, today we should see an equal distribution of races across the welfare spectrum (adjusted for population). We do not. WHY?

-A racist would say it’s because blacks are lazy.

-A liberal would say what you did, it’s because the system was, and still is, holding them down. I think this was mostly true in the 60’s, but became less true with each passing year to the point that today (as evidenced by the election) that it is a very minor issue indeed. So contemporarily speaking, I don’t agree with your argument that “the man” is still a big factor here.

-A conservative would say it’s because the LSPs, by rewarding inaction and poverty with free money, CREATED a system whereby it’s easier to stay poor and get government cheese than work your ass off to get out of poverty.

So to get back at the aborion issue, yes obviously finances have a huge impact on abortion rates. We all agree poor people will have more abortions. But the self-perpetuating LSP system serves to keep more blacks in the lower income brackets; therefore, the LSPs do indirectly have an impact as to why blacks have more abortions. THAT is why we conservatives blame liberal social policy for much of what ails the minority community.

Let me throw one more thing out there re: abortions and the black community. What about the impact of black pop culture. Is Bill Cosby right?

Discuss.[/quote]

Nicely stated

[Professor_X]

[quote]doubleh wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Which is in large part because of many of these programs that some of you claim were of no help at all. Affirmative Action WAS needed when it was started. Anyone denying that is living on some other planet or has their head up their ass because this country was not going to politely start treating blacks as human beings without being forced.

The only real debate is whether some of these programs are needed right now.

EXACTLY. But yet you contradict your past staements with this one…

[/quote]

Uh, no I didn’t. That has been my stance for YEARS on this site. You just can’t read well.

[Big_Boss]

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

Well then you don’t hold a completely liberalist view. At least as this country defiens liberalism.

The liberalist view on crime would be well the criminal really isn’t responsible for his acts, his father treated him badly and society forced him to be that way.

or lets look at our schools where mediocricy is celebrated. Oh who cares if your answer was wrong it is still a good and valid answer.

The far leftist liberals have been pushing this agenda, maybe you have not, i don’t know what you do with your life.

We can see it in every facet of life and it is creating the ideal that we are not responsible or accountable for anything we do or anything around us.

but I hate to say it is a liberal thing because there are plenty of so called republicans or conservatives that push the same agenda, which in facts makes them liberals.

It is like McCain ran as a republican but he is defintely not a conservative republican.

but this not only goes for responsibility of a person to them themselves. It is the responsibility of people to each other in society, including that of a mother to a child or white man to a black man or a black man to white man.

Ok now define your ideology. A liberalist would say to tax the person making money and give it to the person on welfare, which in essence keeps them there. A conservative would say let the person with money who can create jobs keep that money and pay the person who was on welfare to do a job, which may help him get more education and experience to get a better job.

These are truths of the ideologies, not a label people will apply to themselves.[/quote]

Fair enough I suppose. I don’t claim to be a liberal nor conservative…according to HeadHunter…I’m a “closet conservative.” But I really despise anything he says.

[Sloth]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Fair enough I suppose. I don’t claim to be a liberal nor conservative…according to HeadHunter…I’m a “closet conservative.” But I really despise anything he says.[/quote]

I’ll duck back in here long enough to say, come out of the closet you quee…err, conservative.

[doubleh]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?

AssOnGrass wrote:

It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.

Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.

Professor X wrote:

But that isn’t the point you made and it isn’t the point others are making. they are trying to blame “liberals” for why the black family unit isn’t whole while ignoring all of those GIGANTIC SOCIAL ISSUES that led to the creation of many of those programs to start with.[/quote]

Then what, exactly, are you saying HERE? Other posters “blamed liberals” or liberal policy - you appear to disagree.

[Professor_X]

[quote]doubleh wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?

AssOnGrass wrote:

It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.

Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.

Professor X wrote:

But that isn’t the point you made and it isn’t the point others are making. they are trying to blame “liberals” for why the black family unit isn’t whole while ignoring all of those GIGANTIC SOCIAL ISSUES that led to the creation of many of those programs to start with.

Then what, exactly, are you saying HERE? Other posters “blamed liberals” or liberal policy - you appear to disagree.
[/quote]

I meant exactly what I wrote. It’s in English.

[apbt55]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

Fair enough I suppose. I don’t claim to be a liberal nor conservative…according to HeadHunter…I’m a “closet conservative.” But I really despise anything he says.[/quote]

Ok I hate calling my slef one or the other, if we look back at a socialist austria what they called liberal is what we call republican or conservative, I hate the labels.

I really just want to do what is best for our nation, and looking at both the history of other countries and the progression of our own it is hard to say we are doing that.

[doubleh]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
doubleh wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?

AssOnGrass wrote:

It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.

Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.

Professor X wrote:

But that isn’t the point you made and it isn’t the point others are making. they are trying to blame “liberals” for why the black family unit isn’t whole while ignoring all of those GIGANTIC SOCIAL ISSUES that led to the creation of many of those programs to start with.

Then what, exactly, are you saying HERE? Other posters “blamed liberals” or liberal policy - you appear to disagree.

I meant exactly what I wrote. It’s in English.[/quote]

LOL. OK Professor. Obfuscating as always.

EDIT: Here is what you said on page 1.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

What do left wing policies have to do with more abortions happening in poorer areas? They can’t afford the kids and are least likely to avoid what led to the kid being made in the first place. You can blame education, social status and finances for that…but “left wing policies”? Are you serious?[/quote]

[Professor_X]

[quote]doubleh wrote:
Professor X wrote:
doubleh wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?

AssOnGrass wrote:

It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.

Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.

Professor X wrote:

But that isn’t the point you made and it isn’t the point others are making. they are trying to blame “liberals” for why the black family unit isn’t whole while ignoring all of those GIGANTIC SOCIAL ISSUES that led to the creation of many of those programs to start with.

Then what, exactly, are you saying HERE? Other posters “blamed liberals” or liberal policy - you appear to disagree.

I meant exactly what I wrote. It’s in English.

LOL. OK Professor. Obfuscating as always.

EDIT: Here is what you said on page 1.

Professor X wrote:

What do left wing policies have to do with more abortions happening in poorer areas? They can’t afford the kids and are least likely to avoid what led to the kid being made in the first place. You can blame education, social status and finances for that…but “left wing policies”? Are you serious?[/quote]

Guy, if it isn’t clear to you, blame yourself. I didn’t stutter in that previous response and I meant every word. Those programs were put into play because of the larger issue which included racism on a mass scale and even paying minorities less for the same jobs. None of that dwindled until after AA was put into place. The only real argument now is whether it is still needed.

The other issue is that this shit needs to be explained 6 times over for some of you to start listening.

[PRCalDude]

The other issue is that this shit needs to be explained 6 times over for some of you to start listening.

Your positions are clear as mud. Of course, to you this means everyone else is stupid. The reality is that your posts contain the needless emotionalism of a 16 year old girl and perpetual moral outrage scattered in with some facts and statements that can occasionally be distilled into meaningful arguments.

[Professor_X]

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
The other issue is that this shit needs to be explained 6 times over for some of you to start listening.

Your positions are clear as mud. Of course, to you this means everyone else is stupid. The reality is that your posts contain the needless emotionalism of a 16 year old girl and perpetual moral outrage scattered in with some facts and statements that can occasionally be distilled into meaningful arguments. [/quote]

Cute. This thread hasn’t been read this many times for no reason.