[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Be a white person and walk through Baptist Town in Greenwood MS. I can bet you it’s worse than a black man walking into the whitest and richest country club in America.[/quote]
Really?
Did you know that we, until recently (as in the late 80’s and 90’s) weren’t accepted in many Country Clubs or were made to feel so uncomfortable that we would simply leave?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Be a white person and walk through Baptist Town in Greenwood MS. I can bet you it’s worse than a black man walking into the whitest and richest country club in America.
Really?
Did you know that we, until recently (as in the late 80’s and 90’s) weren’t accepted in many Country Clubs or were made to feel so uncomfortable that we would simply leave?
[/quote]
Did you know that as recently as a couple months ago I wasn’t accepted on an entire side of the town I lived in, including clubs bars and restaurants under threat of violence.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
jawara wrote:
I’m blaming the breakdown of black families on “liberal social programs” because we didnt have these problems until “liberal social programs” were started.
Of course. Here:
http://mtsu32.mtsu.edu:11422/315/adultdiv/divfactos.html
Apparently, some people actually consider social integration into society a large factor in the breakdown of families especially among african-americans and especially in the south. Do Liberals get blamed for a nation’s reluctance for decades to integrate an entire race of people?[/quote]
Who said anything about intregation? I didnt. I did say a few things about people having sex out of wedlock. What does that have to do with intregation?
[quote]jawara wrote:
The Civil Rights Act has nothing to do with the social ills of the black community.
[/quote]
Maybe not directly…but you seem to disregard the affects of discrimination/segregation/racism on the black community before the act was invoked. To not see this is strange…but it really wasn’t my point. See next comment.
So how are “liberal” policies and programs related to the empowering guys who see no problem with getting women pregnant? You’re basically saying that "liberal policies and programs are telling black males to have unprotected sex and father children out of wedlock?
I’m confused…maybe you can expand on what you’re saying. Help a brother out.
[quote]jawara wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jawara wrote:
I’m blaming the breakdown of black families on “liberal social programs” because we didnt have these problems until “liberal social programs” were started.
Of course. Here:
http://mtsu32.mtsu.edu:11422/315/adultdiv/divfactos.html
Apparently, some people actually consider social integration into society a large factor in the breakdown of families especially among african-americans and especially in the south. Do Liberals get blamed for a nation’s reluctance for decades to integrate an entire race of people?
Who said anything about intregation? I didnt. I did say a few things about people having sex out of wedlock. What does that have to do with intregation?[/quote]
Wait, what does it have to do with liberals?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Professor X wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Be a white person and walk through Baptist Town in Greenwood MS. I can bet you it’s worse than a black man walking into the whitest and richest country club in America.
Really?
Did you know that we, until recently (as in the late 80’s and 90’s) weren’t accepted in many Country Clubs or were made to feel so uncomfortable that we would simply leave?
Did you know that as recently as a couple months ago I wasn’t accepted on an entire side of the town I lived in, including clubs bars and restaurants under threat of violence.[/quote]
You are saying white people aren’t accepted on the side of town you live in? You get threatened to with violence by an entire side of town that you live in? Where the fuck do you live?
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
The Civil Rights Act has nothing to do with the social ills of the black community.
Maybe not directly…but you seem to disregard the affects of discrimination/segregation/racism on the black community before the act was invoked. To not see this is strange…but it really wasn’t my point. See next comment.
Civil rights is about civil rights not about guys who see no problem with running around getting women pregnant.
So how are “liberal” policies and programs related to the empowering guys who see no problem with getting women pregnant? You’re basically saying that "liberal policies and programs are telling black males to have unprotected sex and father children out of wedlock?
I’m confused…maybe you can expand on what you’re saying. Help a brother out.
[/quote]
I think he’s saying that liberal programs and policies set the lower socio-economic classes up for failure rather than actually help them.
Unprotected sex is a symptom of the real disease… lack of education and ignorance which can be argued is harbored by liberal policies.
People want to point fingers at conservatism as it doesn’t promote the helping of the less fortunate. When in reality if the less fortunate just adopted many of the attitudes of the “old school” there would be less poverty and other social ills.
Nothing of value is ever gifted to people on a societal level. If people would wake up and see that the greatness of this country was built upon people standing up to the oppressive and taking what is rightfully theirs. The founding fathers did this to the English. Women did this to men in regards to voting and equal rights. Black Americans did this to the American majority through the civil rights movement. None of these rights were gifted to people, they were rightfully taken for themselves.
This welfare state does not promote equal opportunity in this way. It actually subsidizes mediocrity of whole classes of people and retards the growth of wealth.
Well that’s my take anyways.
[quote]jawara wrote:
I’m blaming the breakdown of black families on “liberal social programs” because we didnt have these problems until “liberal social programs” were started.
[/quote]
The Black family unit was destroyed by the slave traders. I think stealing individuals from their families, as well as, throughing them together like cattle in a corral. Pretty much removed the family unit from the big picture.
The Black male was used to breed more slaves. The strong were used for various reasons. So a couple hundred years of no family unit has had nothing to do with the current problem.
The social programs were used as a bandage solution to a huge problem. In the past no one addressed the problems. They just through bandages at it. Now maybe there is someone in the White House who will address the root of the problem.
While everyone on this thread is in “shoot the messenger” mode for the results of this latest study, it appears that there is no data on SES because the CDC doesn’t collect it, or it surely would have been reported:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5407a1.htm
Here is the actual Guttmacher report:
The researchers plotted the trends they found based on the data that was in the CDC statistics. Then, they made educated guesses for the causes based on other studies:
[quote]However, the disparate rates reflect different pregnancy
and childbearing patterns across groups. For example,
Hispanic women have higher abortion rates than non-Hispanic
white women, but they also have higher pregnancy
rates?and therefore higher birthrates, both intended and
unintended.
A higher proportion of their pregnancies are
unintended, but unintended pregnancies among Hispanic
women are no more likely to end in abortion than unintended
pregnancies among non-Hispanic white women.
13 Like Hispanic women, black women have much higher pregnancy rates than non-Hispanic white women, but unlike Hispanic women and non-Hispanic white women, they have an extremely high rate of unintended pregnancy (almost 70%).
Lower levels of contraceptive use, higher
failure rates and greater use of less-effective methods are likely to be partially responsible for these differentials.15,16
Although abortion rates have declined about equally
among married and unmarried women, the reasons may be somewhat different. As couples have delayed marriage, the average age of married women has increased, and older women have lower abortion rates.
The trend in the rate among unmarried women is strongly influenced by the reduced abortion rate among teenagers and
women aged 20?24.[/quote]
[quote]AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
The Civil Rights Act has nothing to do with the social ills of the black community.
Maybe not directly…but you seem to disregard the affects of discrimination/segregation/racism on the black community before the act was invoked. To not see this is strange…but it really wasn’t my point. See next comment.
Civil rights is about civil rights not about guys who see no problem with running around getting women pregnant.
So how are “liberal” policies and programs related to the empowering guys who see no problem with getting women pregnant? You’re basically saying that "liberal policies and programs are telling black males to have unprotected sex and father children out of wedlock?
I’m confused…maybe you can expand on what you’re saying. Help a brother out.
I think he’s saying that liberal programs and policies set the lower socio-economic classes up for failure rather than actually help them.
Unprotected sex is a symptom of the real disease… lack of education and ignorance which can be argued is harbored by liberal policies.
People want to point fingers at conservatism as it doesn’t promote the helping of the less fortunate. When in reality if the less fortunate just adopted many of the attitudes of the “old school” there would be less poverty and other social ills.
Nothing of value is ever gifted to people on a societal level. If people would wake up and see that the greatness of this country was built upon people standing up to the oppressive and taking what is rightfully theirs. The founding fathers did this to the English.
Women did this to men in regards to voting and equal rights. Black Americans did this to the American majority through the civil rights movement. None of these rights were gifted to people, they were rightfully taken for themselves.
This welfare state does not promote equal opportunity in this way. It actually subsidizes mediocrity of whole classes of people and retards the growth of wealth.
Well that’s my take anyways.[/quote]
THANK YOU!!!
[quote]jawara wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
The Civil Rights Act has nothing to do with the social ills of the black community.
Maybe not directly…but you seem to disregard the affects of discrimination/segregation/racism on the black community before the act was invoked. To not see this is strange…but it really wasn’t my point. See next comment.
Civil rights is about civil rights not about guys who see no problem with running around getting women pregnant.
So how are “liberal” policies and programs related to the empowering guys who see no problem with getting women pregnant? You’re basically saying that "liberal policies and programs are telling black males to have unprotected sex and father children out of wedlock?
I’m confused…maybe you can expand on what you’re saying. Help a brother out.
I think he’s saying that liberal programs and policies set the lower socio-economic classes up for failure rather than actually help them.
Unprotected sex is a symptom of the real disease… lack of education and ignorance which can be argued is harbored by liberal policies.
[/quote]
So during the 60’s/Civil Rights Movement,were these same liberal programs setting black people up for failure rather than helping??
And if so,how did conservatives help besides just having ideologies of what they thought was best?
The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?
[quote]jawara wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
The Civil Rights Act has nothing to do with the social ills of the black community.
Maybe not directly…but you seem to disregard the affects of discrimination/segregation/racism on the black community before the act was invoked. To not see this is strange…but it really wasn’t my point. See next comment.
Civil rights is about civil rights not about guys who see no problem with running around getting women pregnant.
So how are “liberal” policies and programs related to the empowering guys who see no problem with getting women pregnant? You’re basically saying that "liberal policies and programs are telling black males to have unprotected sex and father children out of wedlock?
I’m confused…maybe you can expand on what you’re saying. Help a brother out.
I think he’s saying that liberal programs and policies set the lower socio-economic classes up for failure rather than actually help them.
Unprotected sex is a symptom of the real disease… lack of education and ignorance which can be argued is harbored by liberal policies.
People want to point fingers at conservatism as it doesn’t promote the helping of the less fortunate. When in reality if the less fortunate just adopted many of the attitudes of the “old school” there would be less poverty and other social ills.
Nothing of value is ever gifted to people on a societal level. If people would wake up and see that the greatness of this country was built upon people standing up to the oppressive and taking what is rightfully theirs. The founding fathers did this to the English.
Women did this to men in regards to voting and equal rights. Black Americans did this to the American majority through the civil rights movement. None of these rights were gifted to people, they were rightfully taken for themselves.
This welfare state does not promote equal opportunity in this way. It actually subsidizes mediocrity of whole classes of people and retards the growth of wealth.
Well that’s my take anyways.
THANK YOU!!![/quote]
Are either of you aware of how thoroughly fucked blacks were before that time period? Racism wasn’t some light issue in this country when many of these programs were started and it was NOT simply a matter of working harder to succeed.
[quote]streamline wrote:
jawara wrote:
I’m blaming the breakdown of black families on “liberal social programs” because we didnt have these problems until “liberal social programs” were started.
The Black family unit was destroyed by the slave traders. I think stealing individuals from their families, as well as, throughing them together like cattle in a corral. Pretty much removed the family unit from the big picture.
The Black male was used to breed more slaves. The strong were used for various reasons. So a couple hundred years of no family unit has had nothing to do with the current problem.
The social programs were used as a bandage solution to a huge problem. In the past no one addressed the problems. They just through bandages at it. Now maybe there is someone in the White House who will address the root of the problem.[/quote]
I agree on the slave trader comment. Even during slavery we were a very conservitive, God fearing people (my grandparents, aunts and uncles could be the cast in a Tyler Perry movie). I really do think that the mentality of “breeding” stopped after slavery was abolished.Anyway along came Civil Rights. The actual civil rights I agree with. The free stuff that came with it I dont and I think getting stuff for free has made black people think that they can’t do anything without getting more free stuff.
[quote]jawara wrote:
streamline wrote:
Anyway along came Civil Rights. The actual civil rights I agree with. The free stuff that came with it I dont and I think getting stuff for free has made black people think that they can’t do anything without getting more free stuff.[/quote]
Hold up! But you said that Civil Rights had NOTHING to do with the ills of the black community…or guys wanting to get women pregnant. Remember,your basis of arguing is that “liberal” programs AKA “getting stuff for free” is to blame. You’re confusing as fuck.
If the MAJORITY of black people felt that way…we wouldn’t even be at the point we are now. You’re disappointing me now.
[quote]jawara wrote:
streamline wrote:
jawara wrote:
I’m blaming the breakdown of black families on “liberal social programs” because we didnt have these problems until “liberal social programs” were started.
The Black family unit was destroyed by the slave traders. I think stealing individuals from their families, as well as, throughing them together like cattle in a corral. Pretty much removed the family unit from the big picture.
The Black male was used to breed more slaves. The strong were used for various reasons. So a couple hundred years of no family unit has had nothing to do with the current problem.
The social programs were used as a bandage solution to a huge problem. In the past no one addressed the problems. They just through bandages at it. Now maybe there is someone in the White House who will address the root of the problem.
I agree on the slave trader comment. Even during slavery we were a very conservitive, God fearing people (my grandparents, aunts and uncles could be the cast in a Tyler Perry movie). I really do think that the mentality of “breeding” stopped after slavery was abolished.Anyway along came Civil Rights. The actual civil rights I agree with. The free stuff that came with it I dont and I think getting stuff for free has made black people think that they can’t do anything without getting more free stuff.[/quote]
Getting for free has the same effect on everyone. I understand where you are coming from. I’m also frustrated like you. The problem can be solved without a cent being spent. Since the solution is get off your lazy ass and make your life better. It’s as simple as exercising, once you get going it just gets better and better. Problem is you have to get off your ass.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
So during the 60’s/Civil Rights Movement,were these same liberal programs setting black people up for failure rather than helping??
And if so,how did conservatives help besides just having ideologies of what they thought was best?
The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?
[/quote]
Ok not trying to be harsh, but look at the ideology.
A liberal mindset tries to take all accountabiility out of the picture, it says do whatever you want it will make you happy. Screw anyone you have the right too, babies mean nothing. That is basically the message you are putting out there, it may not be the intended one but that is the message of the liberal party.
You don’t need to study everyone should have access to the same grades and same jobs. You don’t need to be responsible you can just kill the baby.
Conservatives believe in being accountable for your actions. That if you get a lady pregnant you follow through with what you’ve done. You stay and support that woman and baby not kill it.
Now this may not be the case for all liberals, but those are the beliefs your party is pushing, so if black people are more prevelantly liberal, then it would only make sense that the study would show this.
So if you don’ like it do something or quit complaining.
I hate complaining if you have no intentions of doing something abou the situation in which you are complaining then SHUT UP, cuz it obviously doesn’t bug you that much.
Oh Wait that is what liberals do complain until we can’t take it anymore and give them what they want to shut them up.
They nag you to death.
[quote]streamline wrote:
jawara wrote:
streamline wrote:
jawara wrote:
I’m blaming the breakdown of black families on “liberal social programs” because we didnt have these problems until “liberal social programs” were started.
The Black family unit was destroyed by the slave traders. I think stealing individuals from their families, as well as, throughing them together like cattle in a corral. Pretty much removed the family unit from the big picture.
The Black male was used to breed more slaves. The strong were used for various reasons. So a couple hundred years of no family unit has had nothing to do with the current problem.
The social programs were used as a bandage solution to a huge problem. In the past no one addressed the problems. They just through bandages at it. Now maybe there is someone in the White House who will address the root of the problem.
I agree on the slave trader comment. Even during slavery we were a very conservitive, God fearing people (my grandparents, aunts and uncles could be the cast in a Tyler Perry movie). I really do think that the mentality of “breeding” stopped after slavery was abolished.
Anyway along came Civil Rights. The actual civil rights I agree with. The free stuff that came with it I dont and I think getting stuff for free has made black people think that they can’t do anything without getting more free stuff.
Getting for free has the same effect on everyone. I understand where you are coming from. I’m also frustrated like you. The problem can be solved without a cent being spent.
Since the solution is get off your lazy ass and make your life better. It’s as simple as exercising, once you get going it just gets better and better. Problem is you have to get off your ass.[/quote]
The massive difference in pay between blacks and whites for the SAME jobs didn’t have shit to do with blacks not working hard enough. The inability to get hired for higher paying jobs also didn’t.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?
[/quote]
It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.
Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.
[quote]AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?
It doesn’t dictate human choice at all but predisposes people to the problems. There is an enormous difference. I never said that one CAUSED the other but in my opinion the policies and programs are broken and don’t do anything close to what their intentions are.
Ultimately it’s not liberals or conservatives who should be to blame but the individuals themselves. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make.[/quote]
But that isn’t the point you made and it isn’t the point others are making. they are trying to blame “liberals” for why the black family unit isn’t whole while ignoring all of those GIGANTIC SOCIAL ISSUES that led to the creation of many of those programs to start with. The initial problem was NOT that blacks weren’t working hard enough to succeed. The initial problem was that all of society at the time was geared against the success of blacks in general. For every individual who made it to a higher social status, many were kept behind no matter how hard they worked.
This is not something that was instigated by Welfare and Welfare is not to blame for why poor kids don’t think about safe sex or don’t have complete family units.
Why scapegoat these issues while ignoring the huge one that is at the base of it all?
[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
AssOnGrass wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
So during the 60’s/Civil Rights Movement,were these same liberal programs setting black people up for failure rather than helping??
And if so,how did conservatives help besides just having ideologies of what they thought was best?
The question still remains: How do “liberal” programs and policies dictate human choice in issues related to abortion?? And why do liberals take the entire blame in the first place?
Ok not trying to be harsh, but look at the ideology.
A liberal mindset tries to take all accountability out of the picture, it says do whatever you want it will make you happy. Screw anyone you have the right too, babies mean nothing. That is basically the message you are putting out there, it may not be the intended one but that is the message of the liberal party.
You don’t need to study everyone should have access to the same grades and same jobs. You don’t need to be responsible you can just kill the baby.
Conservatives believe in being accountable for your actions. That if you get a lady pregnant you follow through with what you’ve done. You stay and support that woman and baby not kill it.
Now this may not be the case for all liberals, but those are the beliefs your party is pushing, so if black people are more prevalently liberal, then it would only make sense that the study would show this.
So if you don’ like it do something or quit complaining.
I hate complaining if you have no intentions of doing something abou the situation in which you are complaining then SHUT UP, cuz it obviously doesn’t bug you that much.
Oh Wait that is what liberals do complain until we can’t take it anymore and give them what they want to shut them up.
They nag you to death.
[/quote]
Thanks…you fail. You generalize too much…