I need stronger abs for the standing press. Whenever I try to press over 175lbx5 my lower abs give way on the last 2-3 reps, so it’s my lower abs in particuar that I want to strengthen. My only current abdominal assistance exercise is the standing ab wheel rollout. I’m thinking weighted roman chair sit ups for heavy sets of 5-8 would help. In case it helps anyone spot something that might be relevant, my current gym numbers are: deadlift 440lbx5, deadstop squat from just below parallel 400lbx5, deadstop bench 270lbx5, press 165lbx5 (having worked back down a bit due to the abdominal problem) and chin bodyweight (195lb)+90lbx5. Those are the only exercises I do.
overhead squat
zavickas press
^ x2, especially the savickas press
You might also want to do some push presses to force yourself to get used to stabilizing big weights over-head.
Overhead work with bands or chains! Especially if the last links of the chains are off the ground. The stability required to control the bar is so much greater. Also increse the variety of overhead work in general (press the log, axe, DB, BB, stones,etc.). Finally I love unilateral work, i.e. one arm DB standing press, suitcase DL, etc.
I would just concentrate on the ab wheel rollouts, it’s just an excellent exercise. If you can do them standing are sure it’s not something else entirely? Your other lifts suggests that it’s unlikely a strength issue.
Yeah I find it hard to believe that its you abdominals giving way to a 175 shoulder press with a Squat and DL like that. It doesn’t add up.
Thanks for all the suggestions.
I’ll do more work on rollouts and try the savickas press. I agree that the problem could be due to something else entirely. I mentioned my numbers for the other big lifts because they suggest it’s not an abdominal weakness. Not contracting the glutes hard enough could contribute to excessive anterior pelvic tilt whilst pressing.
ive just read through your original post and i dont really get it… your abs give way? what does that mean?
and yea, as stated… with that squat and dead number i cant see how putting 70kg over head is a problem for your abs…
[quote]wsk wrote:
Thanks for all the suggestions.
I’ll do more work on rollouts and try the savickas press. I agree that the problem could be due to something else entirely. I mentioned my numbers for the other big lifts because they suggest it’s not an abdominal weakness. Not contracting the glutes hard enough could contribute to excessive anterior pelvic tilt whilst pressing.[/quote]
i think your over thinking things here entirly.
Sorry, I should have been clearer in my first post. What I mean by my abs giving way is excessive anterior pelvic tilt and my heels starting to come off the ground on the fourth and fifth reps of a 5 rep set with over 175lb. So I don’t have an issue with pressing 70kg once. As you say, that would be very odd. The problem is with pressing over 80kgx5.
if its a strict press, then don’t bring your heels off the ground; or else it wasn’t a strict press. And personally I’m still confused about the anterior pelvic tilt. Are you leaning to far forward?
im awfully confused now too…
i can only assume your pressing too far in front of your body and need to “bring your head through more”. therefore falling forward when your delts can no longer stabalise the load in front of your body…
this is bad (not bring head through) - 80kg (176lb) strict overhead press 5 reps - YouTube
this is better - Strict overhead press (SOHP) 185x8 + 1 Jerk - YouTube
Make sense?
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
im awfully confused now too…
i can only assume your pressing too far in front of your body and need to “bring your head through more”. therefore falling forward when your delts can no longer stabalise the load in front of your body…
this is bad (not bring head through) - 80kg (176lb) strict overhead press 5 reps - YouTube
this is better - Strict overhead press (SOHP) 185x8 + 1 Jerk - YouTube
Make sense?[/quote]
Never heard this before so pulling your head through is important? The technique was bad for all reasons ? (strength and bodybuilding) or just one ?
pulling your head through is important for any discipline…
imagine benching and bringing the bar down to your face instead of chest… thats what not bringing your head through is like. not bringing your head through is making all the wee stability muscles work harder to keep it on its way up and obviously all the power from your delts/triceps are not bring transferred to the bar.
theres is the other end of the scale when you see people leaning back loads… this is usually when they have weak shoulders are are trying to recruit as much of the chest as possible in the lift.
Let me try to explain why I mentioned excessive anterior pelvic tilt:
The rectus abdominsis provides tension between the ripcage and the pubis. This counteracts lumbar hyperextension and increases intra-abdominal pressure to reinforce correct lumbar curvature from the anterior side of the trunk. If the abs are weak, they give way (as in an ab wheel rollout) and you get lumbar hyperextension and anterior pelvic tilt.
I think you’re right that the problem might be stemming from not getting under the bar properly. I’ve noticed that’s happened on the reps I’ve had the abdominal problem on. The bar drifts away from my shoulders, I lean back to try and press it more with my chest, then my abs can’t produce adequate anterior spinal flexion to prevent my lumbar hyperextension. I think my heels starting to lift off the floor during a rep that’s gone wrong is a balance thing.
[quote]wsk wrote:
Let me try to explain why I mentioned excessive anterior pelvic tilt:
The rectus abdominsis provides tension between the ripcage and the pubis. This counteracts lumbar hyperextension and increases intra-abdominal pressure to reinforce correct lumbar curvature from the anterior side of the trunk. If the abs are weak, they give way (as in an ab wheel rollout) and you get lumbar hyperextension and anterior pelvic tilt.
I think you’re right that the problem might be stemming from not getting under the bar properly. I’ve noticed that’s happened on the reps I’ve had the abdominal problem on. The bar drifts away from my shoulders, I lean back to try and press it more with my chest, then my abs can’t produce adequate anterior spinal flexion to prevent my lumbar hyperextension. I think my heels starting to lift off the floor during a rep that’s gone wrong is a balance thing.[/quote]
i think you just need to spend more time in the gym and kitchen and less time digesting kinesiology manuals!
Plan of action:
- More work on ab wheel rollouts. Goal: do them with a 30lb weighted vest.
- Remember to keep the bar close to my shoulders as I fatigue towards the end of a set.
- Eat more.
to get better at standing press,
do more standing presses, simple.
besides with your lift #s and ab roll outs, doubt that you have any weakness in the abs or core.
the stability required in any over head press cannot be duplicated with ab rollouts, or any ab isolation exercise.
do a variety of standing presses, also throw in some 1 arm OH press.
BTW some of you mentioned Savickas press, what’s that?
Basically, its a shoulder press sitting flat on the ground, with legs straight out and front of you; feet not planted in the ground. Usually done in a power rack from pins.