A Treatise On Human Muscle

Training Bodybuilding
161

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
Answer me this:

Does “sufficient stimulus” vary based on the specialization that an individual has chosen for his/her training (i.e. in strength/hypertrophy/oly lifting/etc) and the level of development that he/she has achieved within that specialization?

EDIT: If that is in any way unclear/ambiguous, let me know and I will rephrase.[/quote]

Yes, the stimulus necessary to get from point X to point C will be different than the stimulus required from point Z to point Y, I have never argued against this.
[/quote]

I hope that formula isn’t in alphabetical order.

Seriously though, you’re almost there: just apply that formula to two people and you’ll see what everybody has been trying to tell you.[/quote]

I know what everybody has been arguing, which is why I find this frustrating.

I never said that people at different points necessarily behoove from the same stimulus, I said that regardless of that, they all obey the same exact biological principles.

e.g; A darker guy probably needs more UV radiation than a paler guy to tan. The biological process of tanning, however, is the same.

A little reading comprehension and politeness go a long way. But what do I know, I’m just a pompous know it all.

[/quote]

Ok, but you did say this:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
The same things works for everyone. [/quote]

… which is what I took issue with.

Varying training methods is a way to vary stimuli. And a given stimulus may or may not be optimal for an individual’s current state of development relative to his or her goals. So no, I don’t think a training method will “work” (as in, be the best method to bring about change) for everyone just because it works for someone else. Which is where a certain level of personalization comes into programming.

I don’t feel like beating a dead horse though. I doubt anyone involved in this discussion is going to substantially alter his training methodology based on what you, I, or anyone else says about this. To each his own, I guess.

163

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
Answer me this:

Does “sufficient stimulus” vary based on the specialization that an individual has chosen for his/her training (i.e. in strength/hypertrophy/oly lifting/etc) and the level of development that he/she has achieved within that specialization?

EDIT: If that is in any way unclear/ambiguous, let me know and I will rephrase.[/quote]

Yes, the stimulus necessary to get from point X to point C will be different than the stimulus required from point Z to point Y, I have never argued against this.
[/quote]

I hope that formula isn’t in alphabetical order.

Seriously though, you’re almost there: just apply that formula to two people and you’ll see what everybody has been trying to tell you.[/quote]

I know what everybody has been arguing, which is why I find this frustrating.

I never said that people at different points necessarily behoove from the same stimulus, I said that regardless of that, they all obey the same exact biological principles.

e.g; A darker guy probably needs more UV radiation than a paler guy to tan. The biological process of tanning, however, is the same.

A little reading comprehension and politeness go a long way. But what do I know, I’m just a pompous know it all.

[/quote]
SO if everybody operates from the exact same biophysiological principals, why do some people experience side effects from certain drugs, whilst others do not?

BBB[/quote]

The drugs operate under all the exact same biophysiological principles, what your genetics will determine, as I said before, is the extent to which you respond.

In the above example, the darker guy may get a tan because his body produces more melanin, while the paler guy just burns.

Or in a more practical example; testosterone increases the size of sebacious gland. In no individual, will testosterone shrink the sebacious glands. How enlarged the individual’s glands are IS what will determine the outcome, from just a little oil to flat out conglobata.

Different results, exact same principles. Unlike what I’ve been hearing from morons for the past few pages, the guy with the scarring mutant conglobata and the guy with clear skin aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

164

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.

The different reactions to the same exact stimuli is EXACTLY the point ‘these morons’ are trying to make.

However, since it’s clear that your head is firmly implanted inside your own asshole, I dont expect this to sink in.

165

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.

166

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
The different reactions to the same exact stimuli is EXACTLY the point ‘these morons’ are trying to make.
[/quote]

also;

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
You respond the exact same way, to a different extent (which is what IS determined by genetics), to the exact same stimulus.
[/quote]

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]hastalles wrote:
Second, we do vary tremendously. I am 5’6". Vince Urbank is (I think) 6’7". Think about the leverages. Do you think we’d respond differently to different lifts and different programs?

Next consider this. Look at this guy: http://maxcdn.fooyoh.com/files/attach/images/3004/794/003/004/estrogen-men.jpg Is his endocrine system different from mine and yours?

That’s just scratching the surface.[/quote]

For the last fucking time; YOU ARE UNDER THE EXACT SAME BIOLOGICAL RULES

Even if you respond to a different extent, you eat more, you gain weight, you lift, you create muscle trauma, you force your body to adapt and it adapts.

‘I am 5’7 and some other guy is taller so we have different leverages’ is NOT obeying different laws of biology.

Jesus fucking christ, I feel like I’m teaching 5th graders.
[/quote]

and then there’s this cute little pearl:

[quote]NinjaLEO wrote:
No, oh wise one, really? What’s ridiculous? Please point it out, because if there’s any way that a person devout to weight lifting or avid in physical fitness practices functions under the same metabolic principles, respiratory, cardiovascular, or even musculoskeletal principles as a person that sits on a couch eating birthday cakes, trolling forums, and playing Modern Warfare all day, by all means, show me good sir.[/quote]

lmao.

All I see is ‘Oh I guess he was right all along and I have no reading skills, better keep arguing and try to save face’.

167

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.
[/quote]

I dont even think YOU know what your point is, in relation to the topic of this thread.

168

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.
[/quote]

LOLz.

Please keep typing. Honestly…all we see is how incredibly smart you are.

169

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.
[/quote]

I dont even think YOU know what your point is, in relation to the topic of this thread. [/quote]

Agreed. He has tried to engineer a victory for himself by splitting his odds between two lines of argument. The only reason he made the comment in the first place was to set himself up for another pop at Biotest.

170

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.
[/quote]

I dont even think YOU know what your point is, in relation to the topic of this thread. [/quote]

This was my point in relation to the thread:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I have seen some genuinely big guys with very unimpressive lifts… Lifts that in powerlifting, would be expected of someone a good 60lbs lighter.

I’m talking about actual maximums we discussed, none of this ‘they were obviously weak because they pre-exhausted or used EXOTIC techniques!’ bullshit conjecture.

Not that there’s absolutely anything wrong with a bodybuilder being ‘weak’ by powerlifting standards, I just find unathletic mass freaks amusing, just as much as the skinny ‘doesnt even look like he lifts’ guys putting up raw 2000lb totals are entertaining and surprising.

I don’t understand why people on the BB section feel the need to defend possible unathleticism in bodybuilding so much, if they’re so assured that performance is a non-issue in BB.

[/quote]

You guys got your panties in a twist over my snowflake remark, not me.

171

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.
[/quote]

I dont even think YOU know what your point is, in relation to the topic of this thread. [/quote]

This was my point in relation to the thread:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I have seen some genuinely big guys with very unimpressive lifts… Lifts that in powerlifting, would be expected of someone a good 60lbs lighter.

I’m talking about actual maximums we discussed, none of this ‘they were obviously weak because they pre-exhausted or used EXOTIC techniques!’ bullshit conjecture.

Not that there’s absolutely anything wrong with a bodybuilder being ‘weak’ by powerlifting standards, I just find unathletic mass freaks amusing, just as much as the skinny ‘doesnt even look like he lifts’ guys putting up raw 2000lb totals are entertaining and surprising.

I don’t understand why people on the BB section feel the need to defend possible unathleticism in bodybuilding so much, if they’re so assured that performance is a non-issue in BB.

[/quote]

You guys got your panties in a twist over my snowflake remark, not me.
[/quote]

No, he called you out on your bs “doesn’t look like he lifts but has a 2,000lbs total” comment.

Please post more.

172

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
You guys got your panties in a twist over my snowflake remark, not me.
[/quote]

You made a stupid comment. If you don’t acknowledge that you were full of shit after the reasonable things that you have stated/agreed to, you are:

a) a troll
b) an idiot
c) just being a proud douchebag who won’t admit fault

Regardless of which it actually is, /thread.

173

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
You guys got your panties in a twist over my snowflake remark, not me.
[/quote]

You made a stupid comment. If you don’t acknowledge that you were full of shit after the reasonable things that you have stated/agreed to, you are:

a) a troll
b) an idiot
c) just being a proud douchebag who won’t admit fault

Regardless of which it actually is, /thread. [/quote]

c) He tried to argue with me before and used the same tactics.

174

[quote]Professor X wrote:

No, he called you out on your bs “doesn’t look like he lifts but has a 2,000lbs total” comment.

Please post more.[/quote]

‘just as much as the skinny ‘doesnt even look like he lifts’ guys putting up raw 2000lb totals are entertaining and surprising’ was a figure of speech meant to illustrate that I find small but strong lifters entartaining. Not surprised that the subtleties of speech would be lost upon a middle aged man with aspergers.

Regardless, here are some pics of a guy with a 2000+lb total who not only looks very unimpressive in comparison with some much larger and weaker guys, but could actually pass off for a non lifter;

http://articles.elitefts.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/OBB-Team2.jpg (second from left)
https://notendur.hi.is/fjolnirg/FjolnirogBrianSchwab.JPG (on the right)

Look bubba, you’re not smart or articulate enough to play this pickapart game.

175

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.
[/quote]

I dont even think YOU know what your point is, in relation to the topic of this thread. [/quote]

This was my point in relation to the thread:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I have seen some genuinely big guys with very unimpressive lifts… Lifts that in powerlifting, would be expected of someone a good 60lbs lighter.

I’m talking about actual maximums we discussed, none of this ‘they were obviously weak because they pre-exhausted or used EXOTIC techniques!’ bullshit conjecture.

Not that there’s absolutely anything wrong with a bodybuilder being ‘weak’ by powerlifting standards, I just find unathletic mass freaks amusing, just as much as the skinny ‘doesnt even look like he lifts’ guys putting up raw 2000lb totals are entertaining and surprising.

I don’t understand why people on the BB section feel the need to defend possible unathleticism in bodybuilding so much, if they’re so assured that performance is a non-issue in BB.

[/quote]

You guys got your panties in a twist over my snowflake remark, not me.
[/quote]

Your opening post was your point:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
What the fuck is up with this ‘you are a special snowflake and you have to discover what works for you!’ on T-Nation these days?

The same things works for everyone.

‘Exotic techniques, find out what works for you, get a prowler, get the new muscle partitioning supplement, get on that new diet’, I swear, this board has become just like every single fucking fitness infomercial they lampooned in the past.[/quote]

176

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.
[/quote]

I dont even think YOU know what your point is, in relation to the topic of this thread. [/quote]

This was my point in relation to the thread:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I have seen some genuinely big guys with very unimpressive lifts… Lifts that in powerlifting, would be expected of someone a good 60lbs lighter.

I’m talking about actual maximums we discussed, none of this ‘they were obviously weak because they pre-exhausted or used EXOTIC techniques!’ bullshit conjecture.

Not that there’s absolutely anything wrong with a bodybuilder being ‘weak’ by powerlifting standards, I just find unathletic mass freaks amusing, just as much as the skinny ‘doesnt even look like he lifts’ guys putting up raw 2000lb totals are entertaining and surprising.

I don’t understand why people on the BB section feel the need to defend possible unathleticism in bodybuilding so much, if they’re so assured that performance is a non-issue in BB.

[/quote]

You guys got your panties in a twist over my snowflake remark, not me.
[/quote]

Your opening post was your point:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
What the fuck is up with this ‘you are a special snowflake and you have to discover what works for you!’ on T-Nation these days?

The same things works for everyone.

‘Exotic techniques, find out what works for you, get a prowler, get the new muscle partitioning supplement, get on that new diet’, I swear, this board has become just like every single fucking fitness infomercial they lampooned in the past.[/quote]

[/quote]

That’s not my opening post, bubba.

That’s my second post in this thread.

Boy, you guys really are slow as fucking bricks.

177

The snowflake remark was merely a prelude to the attempted coup de grace aimed at the site you insist on posting on.

178

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
aren’t living under any different sets of rules, they just react to different extents.

[/quote]

You seem to think this supports your point.

It doesnt. It destroys it.
[/quote]

You seem to think my point is ‘every human responds to stimuli the same way’.

‘These morons’ sounds about right.
[/quote]

I dont even think YOU know what your point is, in relation to the topic of this thread. [/quote]

This was my point in relation to the thread:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I have seen some genuinely big guys with very unimpressive lifts… Lifts that in powerlifting, would be expected of someone a good 60lbs lighter.

I’m talking about actual maximums we discussed, none of this ‘they were obviously weak because they pre-exhausted or used EXOTIC techniques!’ bullshit conjecture.

Not that there’s absolutely anything wrong with a bodybuilder being ‘weak’ by powerlifting standards, I just find unathletic mass freaks amusing, just as much as the skinny ‘doesnt even look like he lifts’ guys putting up raw 2000lb totals are entertaining and surprising.

I don’t understand why people on the BB section feel the need to defend possible unathleticism in bodybuilding so much, if they’re so assured that performance is a non-issue in BB.

[/quote]

You guys got your panties in a twist over my snowflake remark, not me.
[/quote]

Wait you were serious with that comment, rife with strawman arguments and comments that beg the question??

I just assumed you were high/in the middle of a 3 day bender.

179

[quote]roybot wrote:
The snowflake remark was merely a prelude to the attempted coup de grace aimed at the site you insist on posting on.[/quote]

I insist on posting here because there’s still plenty of good discussion to be had and plenty of pure minds to educate and protect from the ridiculous propaganda of underachieving tubby middle aged hicks.

I like the forum and the website, I could do without all the hicks nearing their 40’s and behaving like 16 year old…hicks.

180

[quote]Professor X wrote:

No, he called you out on your bs “doesn’t look like he lifts but has a 2,000lbs total” comment.

Please post more.[/quote]

‘just as much as the skinny ‘doesnt even look like he lifts’ guys putting up raw 2000lb totals are entertaining and surprising’ was a figure of speech meant to illustrate that I find small but strong lifters entartaining. Not surprised that the subtleties of speech would be lost upon a middle aged man with aspergers.

Regardless, here are some pics of a guy with a 2000+lb total who not only looks very unimpressive in comparison with some much larger and weaker guys, but could actually pass off for a non lifter;

http://articles.elitefts.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/OBB-Team2.jpg (second from left)
https://notendur.hi.is/fjolnirg/FjolnirogBrianSchwab.JPG (on the right)

Look bubba, you’re not smart or articulate enough to play this pickapart game.