I did SLDLs tonight, and tried very hard to keep my back flat, since many people here a huge fans of this technique. Seeing that my clothes prevent me from getting a perfect view of my back, I don’t know how flat it was, but I stuck my butt out, and my form looked OK in the mirror. However, I began thinking that when doing an Ian King “Russian” deadlift, the range of motion is much shorther, than a regular deadlift. On this, we know that the back must be flat. Can changing the postion of the bar, and not really the nature of the movement, give a that much greater range of motion? What I’m saying is that perhaps to keep the back flat on SLDLs, the range of motion should be shortened?
princess: I hope I’ve read your question right…but the answer is YES…by keeping the back “flat” in SLDL’s, the range of motion should (and most often WILL) be shortened. A couple of points 1) I think we see too many pics in the mags of these guys and gals doing SLDL’s, usually from platforms, almost touching their noses to their knees! If you have that type of flexibility GREAT…but it’s not necessary…this is a Ham BUILDING exercise, not a Ham STRETCHING exercise. The building comes on the way up. 2) Some people get confused on the term “flat back”; YOU MAINTAIN THE NATURAL LORDODIC CURVE OF THE LUMBAR SPINE! (i.e. the natural curve that the lower spine takes in the direction of the abdomen). YOU JUST DON’T ROUND THE SPINE (ie the lumbar spine curves OUTWARD) in an attempt for a greater (and more dangerous) range of montion. Hope this helps! (P.S. You PROBABLY won’t have much trouble getting a guy or two or three to watch your form on SLDL’s, princess!!:)----!!!)
It takes a loooong time to get really good form on SLDLs. Basically, for a “regular” (not Ian King curly type) SLDL, you have to be able to keep your back tight while relaxing from the hips and hams. If you do this right, you should feel a stretch through your hamstrings, without much (if any) lower back soreness the next day. As far as range of motion goes, the weight should pull you down as you relax into the negative portion of the movement, so heavier weights will increase the depth of the exercise. But if you remember to keep your lower back tight, it won’t be all that deep for most people - contortionist fitness models not withstanding. (All of the above is true of good mornings as well, although you obviously won’t be using as much weight.) Finally, if I’ve told you once, I’ve told you a hundred times: if your clothes get in the way, remove them!
Hi Princess. To find out if you are performing stiff legged DL with a flat back, all you have to know is your hamstring flexibilty and body type. If you have tight hams or you have long thigh bones, then to pick up a weight off the floor (with a stiff knee), you might have to round the back.
Take me for example. I have long thighs and excellent hamstring flexibilty. To perform SLDL from the floor (i.e BB resting on floor), I know I will have to round my back. It’s just simple physics. If I want to perform them with a flat back, then I will lift the BB from a high postion (such as BB resting on pins inside a power rack or on a few blocks of wood) where the BB is about mid shin or knee height.
Obviously, lifting the BB from a high point will result in less range of motion. It all depends what goal you are after. If you have a weak back, perform round back DL. If you want to hit the hams hard, perform SLDL. I'm in the process of animating exercises on my home web page. I haven't done SLDL yet, but I've done conventional DL. If you still have a hard time understanding, I'll get my butt in front of a pc and draw up some variations of the DL. http://www.members.optushome.com.au/ptonline/
Another good trick is to always keep contact between the bar and your legs. Just let it slide down while sticking your butt out as far as you can with a slight bend to your knees. I can only get the bar down about an inch past my knees, but I’m just not a very flexible guy. Need to work on that I guess.
Gary E
The replies to this question are very interesting, and I’m sure they will really help me out. First of all, I’m not all that flexible. To be honest, I stood in front of a mirror in my underwear, and did a SLDL, with no bar, and I still had a very hard time keeping my back flat. So I guess my range of motion, and flexibility, is minimal! When I do Russian Deadlifts, I feel it more in my hams, and less in my back, than when I do SLDLs. The part someone mentioned about how far they bring the bar down is interesting, can anyone else offer how far they let the bar come down? I have been going heavier lately, and feeling it a bit in my back, so maybe I need to shorten the range of motion, stick my butt out even farther, and hopefully really focus on my hamstrings. Sometimes trying to get deadlifts right drives me nuts, does anyone know of a good website that tells how to do them properly, and tips in doing so? I think the problem might be that it’s such a compound movement that everyone varies in their technique due to strengths and weaknesses.
Princess, I’ve got a few thoughts on this as I posted a similar question a short while ago. The fact that your back is hurting from going heavier will have something to do with your form but it may also have to do with the strength balance in you posterior chain (Erectors, glutes, hams). Your erectors are one of the strongest muscle groups in our bodies. They are often stronger than our hamstrings. So when you increase resistance during SLDL’s the weight may exceed the strength level in your hamstrings, and your back takes the bulk of the work. You may need to increase the strength in your hams with revrse hypers and glute ham raises, in order to improve your ability to use your hams in SLDL’s. I’m experimenting with that idea right now. Does this apply to you? It seems to be the remedy in my case.
I’m not a big fan of SLDL’s. I think too many people have a tendency to round their back at the bottom of the exercise because of flexibility or form issues. I like Romanian DL’s, Keystone DL’s, and straight-backed Good Mornings (what Ian King calls Russian Deadlifts) a lot better. If SLDL’s aren’t working as well for you try one of the 3 exercises I mentioned. Just my 2 cents.
Also make sure you’re unlocking your knees just a tad and keep them that way the entire time. Many people do the bar to the floor bent over version thinking it’s really working their hamstrings. What really happens is the exercise stretches the hell out of the hammies and creates a lot of soreness due to the stretching…People mistake this soreness for the type of muscular growth inducing soreness they want.
I still haven’t done SLDLs in my workout, but I am considering everything that everyone has told me. How do I do reverse hypers to focus on the hamstrings? Is it just a mind-muscle connection?
There are basically two types of reverse hypers: for hams and for lower back. For hams, you bend in much the same way that I described above, keeping your lower back tight and flexing from the hips. The only difference, of course, is that you won’t be standing upright… For lower back, you do the opposite, keeping the hams and hips tight, and lowing yourself by rounding your lower back. Since there are very few people who do this while using any appreciable amount of weight, you don’t run much risk of injury doing this. Doing both of these variations is a great way of developing the “feel” for isolating your hams for when you do SLDLs. Also, if you’ve got access to Flex Wheeler’s first video, check it out. He has such excellent isolation on this exercise (he’s doing them for lower back) that it looks like he has a door hinge installed above his hips. His upper body goes up and down, and the waistband of the cut-offs he’s wearing does not move a millimeter. One of the few times I’ve seen a pro using really outstanding form, but hey, credit where credit is due!