They looked crazy! When I first met him I said to myself, “This guy’s freaking huge!”
Yeah I recall you saying that else where.
I meant to ask you and you may have said this before but when you dieted down, what was you weight?
173 pounds.
Lol thanks Brad… and I humbly considered myself a solid middle of the pack Level Pro 
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The guy on the right is a very young Kai Greene. Like any sport, the guys at the top wouldn’t be there if they didn’t have super genetics.
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I actually think he looks better (more aesthetic/visually pleasing) in this pic than he does now
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You can search old WNBF shows and find plenty of guys who would go on to be monstrous IFBB pros once they decided to use a little “enhancement”. So once you realize that, you see that gear alone doesn’t make a Mr. Olympia
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I never said or thought gear made the Olympia. I think guys like Boston Lloyd are prime examples one could use to back up said ideology that genetics and hard work, not gear make a champion… Boston Lloyd is also an incredibly irresponsible individual and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some of his decisions catch up with him in the next 5-10 years
All the gear in the world for someone with inadequate genetics won’t create an Olympia competitor, I could take exorbitant amounts, work my ass off and I probably wouldn’t even turn pro… I just don’t have the genetics for it. That’s not to say I’ll never try get on stage, I’ve always wanted to give it a shot and I think it’d be a fun and intriguing experience.
I should be getting a new phone within the next month, thus when I’ve got it I’ll post that pic of my back to show you just how far ahead it is compared to my arms/rest of my body.
Whilst I don’t believe all athletes/WNBF competitors are natural (if they were we wouldn’t have the occasional competitor failing a drug test), many seem to believe gear is reserved for athletes/pro bodybuilders when the reality is… the average guy using gear is some guy at the gym who probably looks like shit, doesn’t stand out from the average individual. Many people seem to put a all their faith in gear, neglect the basic principles of nutrition and training… I find this irritating
The biggest “sus” moments wherein I call out “he’s on gear” isn’t nessecarily related to ones size… it’s when one suddenly goes from skinny fat/average to fucking huge over a period of 3-5 months without gaining any fat mass/losing fat mass
I had one friend who suddenly went from average/small… gained 7kg over 2-3 months, lost significant amounts of BF, then lost it all again over the period of about a month… that’s suspect. His training consisted of constantly hitting 1rms, suprised he didn’t injure himself given he put about 40kg on his bench during that timeframe… he also knew other guys on gear, it doesn’t take a genius to add up those variables.
Perhaps he was natty and had very good genetics (because he does have very good genetics)… however that transformation made me incredibly suspicious
I mean… look at yourself, I’ve seen pics of you stage ready and you look INSANE! I’d hypothesise a good portion of guys, even on gear will never look as good as you do prior to competition. Be it lack of genetics or lack of hard work (as many simply don’t have a good work ethic), I firmly believe you’re well above average.
I apologise for potential numerous grammatical errors within this message. When my new phone arrives this will stop. Autocorrect on this particular device is an absolute bitch… as is the touchscreen
I’ve been hitting the gym at 5.30am as I need my ‘fix’ so to speak. I’ve got a 1 year old and another due in July.
Reading your post fills me with dread 
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Strange thing here is that Boston’s father was a bodybuilder and looks incredible for his era, so the genetics are there. What is Boston doing wrong?
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2 people are involved in genetics.
And nothing is 100% passed on.
Except for colds in kindergarten
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I was going at 4:45 for awhile, sometimes even earlier because for some time I was suffering from awful insomnia. That worked for some time til my daughter came around last summer with her up at night. There went waking up early.
Now I go immediately after work. I go to a very nice Gym but it is packed! Many will say, “ya gotta go to a gym in which people are serious!”
Well, the result of many being serious? Try eight squat racks all being used at once sometimes! Then I thought, “Oh, I’ll get two of my workouts in on Sundays and Friday nights cuz like … ya know… that’s when it’s less crowded. Wrong! My freaking gym is a Friday night club unto itself!
Let’s just say it might not be as difficult for you though. The young people in my town are batshit crazy about the gym. I’m working on setting shit up in my garage so I can eventually have some equipment in it.
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The results in offspring can vary greatly. I’m fairly muscular naturally and have some alright insertions/shape (whatever term we use) and my brother, though not thin, has a completely different looking physique.
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I also have a brother (twin). I’m 5’5, 160, he’s 5’10-11, 125-130
Also @600lb_Gorilla you’re avatar is Markus Ruhl right? I think he’s retired now
As to the initial topic regarding natural bodybuilding. I think people dramatically understate the importance of genetics, they think just because they work hard yet aren’t massive that theoretically no one else can achieve a superior physique without enhancement…
FFMI is different though, you’ll be very hard pressed to find a lean natural bodybuilder with an FFMI of 25+, perhaps it happens, but we are talking the top 0.001%
FFMI is bullshit as well. Greg Doucette for instance was competing natural over it no problemo
I believe it’s a decent predictor… for instance, you’ll never find a natural competitor with an FFMI of 30, but 25+ is achievable for a select few
Greg Doucette is genetically elite… look at him when he was thirteen, not only this, but he benched like 260 when he was 13 at a BW of 120-130 (or something similar)… as I said the top .001% or so can certainly achieve 25+
This study here regarding natural competitors finds the mean FFMI of placed competitors (men) to be around 22.74… that’s still damn good if you’re 5%, that being said… TWO competitors (male) had FFMI’s over 25. The majority can’t, but some can. I’d disagree if one said the majority of average men can achieve an FFMI of 25+ whilst lean.
When someone has an FFMI of 30… there’s zero chance at that point. Arnold’s FFMI is around 28, to say one can be as big/bigger than Arnold Schwarzenegger, a genetically elite bodybuilder on the sauce, I’d disagree… even Kai Greene prior to turning pro wasn’t as big as Arnold in his prime
This isn’t bashing natural athletes, but there is a ceiling to just how much mass one can gain with or without gear.
The study regarding why some say 25+ is 100% an indication of gear is flawed though
Here they find the avg FFMI of top level competitive bodybuilders during steroid use eras (post late 1930s) to be 25.4, some “steroid users” had FFMI’s exceeding 30 (and presumably extensive LVH lol)… the upper limit for those who hadn’t used was below 25… but the study above found two natural bodybuilders to have FFMI’s exceeding 25… the problem regarding the study is sample size, it’s 74 nonusers, one CANNOT make a generalisation stemming from a 74 people… take a look at ALL legitimately natural bodybuilders and I’m sure the top 0.1% or so will have FFMIs above 25… but I highly doubt you’ll ever find one with an FFMI of 28-30
However if out of 74 well trained men, zero reach an FFMI of 25 one can hypothesise the odds of being able to achieve such a degree of mass naturally is low. If one plugs in the stats of natural competitors (those available) the majority have FFMI’s below said criteria and thus one can reasonably suspect no foul play is at hand (+ drug testing)
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Nice, that’s the kind of answer I expected. Thanks.
So I just tried for funsies. I’m at 21,80, apparently. Really didn’t thought I was advanced. And if I keep pushing in the good direction like last year I could be “advanced gym freak” someday lol
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21.80 is damn good if you’re lean mate! What matters more is genetics/insertions, some guys with an FFMI of 28 will look worse than another guy with an FFMI of 21, insertions, genetics, proportions etc can go a long way
My FFMI is 23.57, but I still look like shit, I have some of the worst genetics I’ve ever seen on anyone regarding my arms (same goes for my brother and father), very good genetics regarding my back, average everywhere else
I’ll be posting a pic eventually when I get my new phone
If thats you in youre profile pic I’d say you’re doing very well… who gives a shit about an arbitrary measurement, it’s all about the mirror… a good portion of bodybuilding relies upon the art of illusion.
Honestly I think I’m 4 weeks out from contest shape in this shoot.
Well you’re still young right? It will look better. Genetics can be overcame, like you said, with illusion.
For instance I have ultra short biceps (I can fit almost 4 fingers between my elbow and the start of it) so I guess I should pummel the brachialis and forearms