A Muslim Da Vinci Code?

Interesting stuff:

Islam watchers blogged all weekend about news that a secret archive of ancient Islamic texts had surfaced after 60 years of suppression. Andrew Higgins’ Wall Street Journal report that the photographic record of Koranic manuscripts, supposedly destroyed during World War II but occulted by a scholar of alleged Nazi sympathies, reads like a conflation of the Da Vinci Code with Indiana Jones and the Holy Grail.

What if scholars can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Koran was not dictated by the Archangel Gabriel to the Prophet Mohammad during the 7th century, but rather was redacted by later writers drawing on a variety of extant Christian and Jewish sources? That would be the precise equivalent of proving that the Jesus Christ of the Gospels really was a composite of several individuals, some of whom lived a century or two apart.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak03.html

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Interesting stuff:

Islam watchers blogged all weekend about news that a secret archive of ancient Islamic texts had surfaced after 60 years of suppression. Andrew Higgins’ Wall Street Journal report that the photographic record of Koranic manuscripts, supposedly destroyed during World War II but occulted by a scholar of alleged Nazi sympathies, reads like a conflation of the Da Vinci Code with Indiana Jones and the Holy Grail.

What if scholars can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Koran was not dictated by the Archangel Gabriel to the Prophet Mohammad during the 7th century, but rather was redacted by later writers drawing on a variety of extant Christian and Jewish sources? That would be the precise equivalent of proving that the Jesus Christ of the Gospels really was a composite of several individuals, some of whom lived a century or two apart.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak03.html[/quote]

Anyone buying any of this is an idiot.

The oldest copy of the Quran is from a couple of decades after Mohamed’s death. At the time, a substantial portion of the Ummah knew it by heart. So, for all purposes, the Quran as we know it is the same one from Mohamed’s era. Whether it is the “word of God” or just of Mohamed’s is another story. But the crackpot who thinks Mohamed in the Quran is the “precise equivalent” of the Jesus’ “composite of several individuals, some of whom lived a century or two apart” needs a history lesson.

Don’t take my word for it. Crack open any history book.

[quote]lixy wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Interesting stuff:

Islam watchers blogged all weekend about news that a secret archive of ancient Islamic texts had surfaced after 60 years of suppression. Andrew Higgins’ Wall Street Journal report that the photographic record of Koranic manuscripts, supposedly destroyed during World War II but occulted by a scholar of alleged Nazi sympathies, reads like a conflation of the Da Vinci Code with Indiana Jones and the Holy Grail.

What if scholars can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Koran was not dictated by the Archangel Gabriel to the Prophet Mohammad during the 7th century, but rather was redacted by later writers drawing on a variety of extant Christian and Jewish sources? That would be the precise equivalent of proving that the Jesus Christ of the Gospels really was a composite of several individuals, some of whom lived a century or two apart.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA15Ak03.html

Anyone buying any of this is an idiot.

The oldest copy of the Quran is from a couple of decades after Mohamed’s death. At the time, a substantial portion of the Ummah knew it by heart. So, for all purposes, the Quran as we know it is the same one from Mohamed’s era. Whether it is the “word of God” or just of Mohamed’s is another story. But the crackpot who thinks Mohamed in the Quran is the “precise equivalent” of the Jesus’ “composite of several individuals, some of whom lived a century or two apart” needs a history lesson.

Don’t take my word for it. Crack open any history book.[/quote]

The worlds oldest Koran is incomplete and damaged. I believe it is missing hundreds of pages. The point is that the modern Koran differs from early Korans which differed from each other. This leads an impartial observer to question why Gabriel would dictate multiple versions or even wonder if he dictated it at all.

Some of the parchment pages in the Yemeni hoard seemed to date back to the seventh and eighth centuries A.D., or Islam’s first two centuries�??they were fragments, in other words, of perhaps the oldest Korans in existence.

What’s more, some of these fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text. Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.

I already pointed out in an older thread how little the islamic world wants to know about the origins of it’s religion.

And how the “huris” were probably just grapes.
Individual interpretaions of various passages literally made up the newly unified language. So when the first puzzled muslims asked their Imams what the funny, druginfluenced-like texts now meant because it’s really a unreadable linguistical and religious ragtag, they just told the masses what they wanted to hear. So “huri” became the pure virgins in a haphazard fashion and people forgot about the grapes (can’t figure out why;)

But of course, Lixy knows it better then linguistic experts who have to risk their necks doubting the convinent sexist truths like eternally wet, randy wenches in the afterlife.

LONDON �?? A Koran written in 1203, believed to be the oldest known complete copy, has sold for more than $2.3 million at an auction.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304743,00.html

The early incomplete Korans have differences from the 500 year newer and yet earliest complete copy according to my brief online search.

It seems the Koran’s legitimacy is just as questionable as the Bible’s but academic study of the Bible is accepted by Christianity while similar study of the Koran is condemned by Islam.

According to sources, the words of Mohammed were copied down by those who heard him. These were later collected and compiled into a book. They were not collected during his life time. There are no original copies of the Koran in existence. The oldest Koran in existence is the Othman Koran compiled in Medina by Othman, the third caliph. Hadiths (traditions) tell that Zaid bin Thabit compiled the Koran and that Caliph Uthman later had an official version prepared. There have been many revisions, corrections, alterations, interpolations, and changes in wording. The present day Koran cannot be checked for validity against an original since no original exists.

Christoph Luxenberg, a scholar of ancient Semitic languages in Germany, argues that the Koran has been misread and mistranslated for centuries. His work, based on the earliest copies of the Koran, maintains that parts of Islam’s holy book are derived from pre-existing Christian Aramaic texts that were misinterpreted by later Islamic scholars who prepared the editions of the Koran commonly read today.

Arab scholar Suliman Bashear reported that Islam developed as a religion gradually rather than emerging fully formed from the mouth of the Prophet.

John Wansbrough of the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, insisted that the text of the Koran appeared to be a composite of different voices or texts compiled over dozens if not hundreds of years. After all, scholars agree that there is no evidence of the Koran until 691 �?? 59 years after Muhammad’s death �?? when the Dome of the Rock mosque in Jerusalem was built, carrying several Koranic inscriptions.

Patricia Crone, a scholar from the School for Oriental and African Studies at London, insists that the Koran and the Islamic tradition present a fundamental paradox. The Koran is a text soaked in monotheistic thinking, filled with stories and references to Abraham, Isaac, Joseph and Jesus, and yet the official history insists that Muhammad, an illiterate camel merchant, received the revelation in Mecca, a remote, sparsely populated part of Arabia, far from the centers of monotheistic thought, in an environment of idol-worshiping Arab Bedouins. Unless one accepts the idea of the angel Gabriel, Ms. Crone says, historians must somehow explain how all these monotheistic stories and ideas found their way into the Koran.

The obvious answer is there is no paradox at all and that many of the stories Muhammed would have no way of knowing were inserted into the Koran as the religion evolved.

Reading all this makes me question whether any of these Middle Eastern religions are legit.

I think I may start worshipping Thor on this snowy Thorsday afternoon.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I think I may start worshipping Thor on this snowy Thorsday afternoon.[/quote]

Fighing eternally and occasionally feasting in Valhalla, where you’re boasting about the battle and fucking Valkyries in the kitchen from time to time is alot more appealing to me then sitting in a garden, nibbling on grapes and cursing monotheism.

I don’t understand why Muslim extremists will die for seven virgins in the afterlife when they can move to Utah and have seven virgins now?

Humour aside, most suicide bombers aren’t even very religios.

Lo there, do I see my father…

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I think I may start worshipping Thor on this snowy Thorsday afternoon.

Fighing eternally and occasionally feasting in Valhalla, where you’re boasting about the battle and fucking Valkyries in the kitchen from time to time is alot more appealing to me then sitting in a garden, nibbling on grapes and cursing monotheism.[/quote]

Daily battles and nightly feasts with hot Valkyries sounds like heaven to me.

“Anyone buying any of this is an idiot.” - Lixy

You mean Islam as a peaceful religion right?

Yes… because everyone knows that the Bible and Koran come from God himself…

Who the hell actually questions that we can prove they were written by man?

[quote]dk44 wrote:
“Anyone buying any of this is an idiot.” - Lixy

You mean Islam as a peaceful religion right?

[/quote]

I think he might have meant religion in general :wink:

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The worlds oldest Koran is incomplete and damaged. [/quote]

Gee…you think?

I would be more than happy to discuss these so-called differences between early Qurans, provided you do your homework. I welcome academic debates, and quoting a Fox News is as far from that as you can get.

Show me where the modern Quran differs from earlier “versions” (besides the harakat), and pray tell how in 15 centuries and over the vast geographic space that makes up the Islamic world, only one version managed to survive (knowing rifts over succession powers predate the compilation of the book).

No you idiot! A rational observer questions a superbeing with wings really exists, period. Anything else is just beating a dead horse.

You can never prove that the Quran was dictated by Gabriel. Any idiot knows that. But you can show that the

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I already pointed out in an older thread how little the islamic world wants to know about the origins of it’s religion. [/quote]

What a funny thing to say given Islam’s history is the best documented monotheistic relgiion.

What do you mean “were”?

There are plenty of words that are exclusive to the Quran. Not even the prophet knew what they meant. You best bet is to ask God directly.

Contextually though, I’ll have to agree with the consensus. Why would teh Quran talk about the “eyes” of a grape anyway?

Either way, this discussion is conjectural at best. What is unarguable is that Houris are a heavenly prize for abiding by God’s commandments on Earth. What does it matter if they are grapes, tubs of Surge, ponies, or hot chicks/studs?

What is this drug you allege had an influence on the Quran?

And I ask again: What do grapes have to do with eyes? And why would they be characterized as ka amtali allou’lou-i lmaknoun (sheltered like pearls in an oyster)?

I don’t give a rat’s furry ass about any Imam (except Mohamed), but your theory is half-baked at best.

Look, a biologist doing research on cures for deadly viruses is risking his/her neck. A fireman going into a flaming building is risking his neck. It is shameful of you to associate a linguist quibbling over the meaning of a word nobody knows or will ever know with those.

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
I don’t understand why Muslim extremists will die for seven virgins in the afterlife when they can move to Utah and have seven virgins now?[/quote]

Ah…the mysteries of life!

Can’t trust anything by Fox News.

They actually reported that there was an auction, those bastards. How dare they?

Now they are reporting there was snow in the Mid-West, those whores.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Can’t trust anything by Fox News.

They actually reported that there was an auction, those bastards. How dare they?

Now they are reporting there was snow in the Mid-West, those whores. [/quote]

You can trust Fox all you want, just don’t claim what they say is proof of something.

Don’t say any news story by any major news corp is absolute proof.