[quote]slimjim wrote:
I don’t see how anything either of you has written has served to counter any of my points. You basically attempt to hold Muhammad responsible for what amounts to a violent doctrine of conversion or conquer, which is not in the Koran or the hadith. [/quote]
Are you trying to make a sarcastic joke or are you serious?
[quote]
Even as Sifu is obviously able to see that it was not Jesus who was responsible for later interpretations of religion in the hands of people that led to violence, is it impossible to see the same in Islam? [/quote]
Of course it is impossible because mohammad was very supportive of violence and he was an active participant in violence. There is no misinterpretation going on with the jihadists, they are following the example set by mohammad and they are obeying his commands.
ie mohammad said kill apostates and idolaterers so a gang of jihadists just tore though Mumbai shooting everything in site. Where is the misinterpretation?
[quote]
How is it that I’m painting an inaccurate Christian history because I utilize examples after Christ, yet your interpretation of Islamic History is accurate even though you utilize events that occurred while after Muhammad’s death. [/quote]
Because when Jesus was alive he thoroughly addressed the issue of violence and told his followers that violence is not his way.
Mohammad had an extensive history of cruelty, violence and encouraging others to engage in it with him or for him. If muslims have continued to be cruel and violent after mohammads death it is entirely his fault for encouraging it when he was alive.
[quote]
You act as if Islam is so backwards it could not adjust or relate to contemporary times, as if they could not adapt what are sometimes anachronistic practices and beliefs to today’s environment, while Christians can. [/quote]
Thanks to Jesus, killing in the name of religion was a backwards anachronism well before mohammad was born. Mohammad set the ideological clock back hundreds of years. Then he said that’s it, I am the seal of the prophets, my way is the right way and that is final. Sealed means finished, done, completed, no more changes.
There was an imam in London who recently said that “islam is not a buffet, where you can pick and choose what you want”. Picking and choosing is exactly what the so called moderate muslims are doing. They are picking the early Meccan islam to follow while choosing to ignore the later Medina islam which abrogates the earlier Meccan islam.
What they need to do is decide, islam yes or islam no, the so called moderate islam maybe is helping noone.
[quote]
You’re utilizing an fairly easy figurehead in Christ to make your argument, as he is pretty unique in terms of religious figures as his entire message and life was one based on peace. [/quote]
Mohammad had no problem in using Jesus in order to pursue his own selfish ends, so it is perfectly fair to keep Jesus in the discussion now.
[quote]
My point about Muhammad and Islam having a longer history than Europeans was in regards to the deportment of POWs, treatment of enemy’s bodies…not religious toleration. [/quote]
You neglect the fact that the deportment of POW’s was an issue because mohammad and his followers were busy making war on others. What about all the women who were hauled off as slaves? What about forcing them to have children to supply the jihad with fresh troops?
[quote]
The point about religious toleration still stands, Christianity was tolerant of other religions until it rose to prominence after which there have been clear examples of religious persecution.[/quote]
NO NO NO. Christianity did not rise to prominence. Christianity became very popular, then in it’s 3rd century the Roman State invaded, took it over and inflicted a Roman Orthodoxy. So get your facts straight, Christianity did not take over Rome and then get nasty. Rome took over Christianity, then things got nasty. Because the Roman emporer didn’t want to follow Jesus, he just wanted to use Jesus for his own selfish ends.