A Few Nutrition Questions

Diet and Nutrition
1

  1. How much fiber is too much? It’s helpful to use fiber, like psyllium husk, to make you feel extra full when fighting off cravings, but too much is a form of bulemic purging, and obviously is metabolically damaging (not to mention damaging to the seat of your boxers).

  2. What is the usual frequency for pooping on a LCD? I normally go 2-3 times a week, and some of my clients have reported as little as once a week and as high as twice a day. Assuming they are being honest about their diets, is any of that normal?

  3. Is there such a thing as overconsumption of fruit? Being winter, I’m eating 4-5 large oranges a day as is one of my 17 year old athletic clients. Obviously, worse choices could be made, but is that much sugar spread out over a day going to make any real impact on either of us?

On that last one, I’m going to guess no, and that the 3-4 grams of fiber pretty much negate everything, but I’d like to see what you guys think.

2

Adult males are supposed to get about 35 grams of fiber a day. How much beyond that is “too much”? Hard to say, IMO, but I think it would be hard to eat “too much” fiber unless you were abusing fiber supplements.

You should be crapping at least once a day IMO. If not, you’re not eating enough fiber or drinking enough water (or maybe not eating enough food, period). Some people crap 3 times a day! It’s not healthy to have such a slow-moving gut, that you only crap twice a week, IMO.

5 oranges is a lot of fructose IMO. Too much? I dunno. But it’s not “low carb” (since you mentioned low card diets).

Just my 2 cents.

3

BTW, cheese and nuts are two foods that really slow things down for me. Are you eating a lot of cheese and nuts?

4

You should crap at least once a day, don’t think any less is healthy. 2-3 times a week is very very low IMO.

4-5 large oranges is too much if you wanna go low-carb. I’d stick to 2 max, preferrably early in the day.

5

[quote]Xab wrote:

  1. How much fiber is too much? It’s helpful to use fiber, like psyllium husk, to make you feel extra full when fighting off cravings, but too much is a form of bulemic purging, and obviously is metabolically damaging (not to mention damaging to the seat of your boxers).
    [/quote]

When you say ‘obviously metabolically damaging’, what do you mean by this? As anything in the realm of ‘physically possible to consume’ doesn’t have any ‘obvious’ metabolic damages IMO.

6

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

[quote]Xab wrote:

  1. How much fiber is too much? It’s helpful to use fiber, like psyllium husk, to make you feel extra full when fighting off cravings, but too much is a form of bulemic purging, and obviously is metabolically damaging (not to mention damaging to the seat of your boxers).
    [/quote]

When you say ‘obviously metabolically damaging’, what do you mean by this? As anything in the realm of ‘physically possible to consume’ doesn’t have any ‘obvious’ metabolic damages IMO.
[/quote]

Bulemic purging is achieved by either inducing vomiting or, less commonly, by overuse of laxatives. Psyllium husk can have that effect. Furthermore, eating disorders are metabolically damaging because when you recover from them, you don’t gain weight like normal - your metabolism shuts down to be as slow as absolute possible and you gain all of your weight as fat, instead of the usual ratio of ~25% muscle to ~75% fat. My concern is using so much psyllium that it accidentally keeps your body from being able to properly absorb nutrients.

7

[quote]Xab wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

[quote]Xab wrote:

  1. How much fiber is too much? It’s helpful to use fiber, like psyllium husk, to make you feel extra full when fighting off cravings, but too much is a form of bulemic purging, and obviously is metabolically damaging (not to mention damaging to the seat of your boxers).
    [/quote]

When you say ‘obviously metabolically damaging’, what do you mean by this? As anything in the realm of ‘physically possible to consume’ doesn’t have any ‘obvious’ metabolic damages IMO.
[/quote]

Bulemic purging is achieved by either inducing vomiting or, less commonly, by overuse of laxatives. Psyllium husk can have that effect. Furthermore, eating disorders are metabolically damaging because when you recover from them, you don’t gain weight like normal - your metabolism shuts down to be as slow as absolute possible and you gain all of your weight as fat, instead of the usual ratio of ~25% muscle to ~75% fat. My concern is using so much psyllium that it accidentally keeps your body from being able to properly absorb nutrients. [/quote]

Although I do not have a specific number, wouldn’t the effect of too much psyllium hindering absorption be observable in one’s droppings?

I would think that the number may not be a solid number by itself, but maybe more a ratio of fibers that speed transit up, and fibers that congest intestional traffic. As I routinely have over 20g of Psyllium a day, yet over 30g from vegetable sources, which seem like large numbers but have served me great.

Edit: Never knew the word ‘purging’ applied to laxatives, interesting.

8

[quote]K2000 wrote:
Adult males are supposed to get about 35 grams of fiber a day. How much beyond that is “too much”? Hard to say, IMO, but I think it would be hard to eat “too much” fiber unless you were abusing fiber supplements.

You should be crapping at least once a day IMO. If not, you’re not eating enough fiber or drinking enough water (or maybe not eating enough food, period). Some people crap 3 times a day! It’s not healthy to have such a slow-moving gut, that you only crap twice a week, IMO.

5 oranges is a lot of fructose IMO. Too much? I dunno. But it’s not “low carb” (since you mentioned low card diets).

Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

Good post. In my mind, if you are eating to gain weight you should be dropping a spike AT LEAST once a day. I usually hit the can two or three.

If you are only shitting twice a week, you are clinically classified as being constipated. And to think that the OP is worried about some sort of ‘metabolic damage’ from TOO MUCH fiber!

The OP’s posts in this thread make me worried that he is a personal trainer of some sort.

9

I wouldn’t trip out about it unless you feel like you have issues with digestion and or constipation. If it’s coming out fine then I’d say y’er A-OK. As for the oranges, I personally would go for more variety… but if they work for your, then go for it

10

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]K2000 wrote:
Adult males are supposed to get about 35 grams of fiber a day. How much beyond that is “too much”? Hard to say, IMO, but I think it would be hard to eat “too much” fiber unless you were abusing fiber supplements.

You should be crapping at least once a day IMO. If not, you’re not eating enough fiber or drinking enough water (or maybe not eating enough food, period). Some people crap 3 times a day! It’s not healthy to have such a slow-moving gut, that you only crap twice a week, IMO.

5 oranges is a lot of fructose IMO. Too much? I dunno. But it’s not “low carb” (since you mentioned low card diets).

Just my 2 cents.[/quote]

Good post. In my mind, if you are eating to gain weight you should be dropping a spike AT LEAST once a day. I usually hit the can two or three.

If you are only shitting twice a week, you are clinically classified as being constipated. And to think that the OP is worried about some sort of ‘metabolic damage’ from TOO MUCH fiber!

The OP’s posts in this thread make me worried that he is a personal trainer of some sort.[/quote]

Overuse of fiber supplements is a form of bulemic purging. I am asking what that limit is. Bulemia nervosa and anorexia nervosa are metabolically damaging because your metabolism and cellular turnover are working at the absolute slowest levels because the body has been in prolonged starvation mode, and will use as much food as possible to gain fat. This is a very poor metabolic situation to be in.

So, over consumption of psyllium husk = bulemia = metabolic destruction.

11

[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Although I do not have a specific number, wouldn’t the effect of too much psyllium hindering absorption be observable in one’s droppings?

I would think that the number may not be a solid number by itself, but maybe more a ratio of fibers that speed transit up, and fibers that congest intestional traffic. As I routinely have over 20g of Psyllium a day, yet over 30g from vegetable sources, which seem like large numbers but have served me great.

Edit: Never knew the word ‘purging’ applied to laxatives, interesting.
[/quote]

More fiber just means you’re delaying the rate at which food is absorbed, especially in the case of carbs. Unless you have terrible diarrhea or something, your body is extremely good at getting every tiny last calorie out of the food you eat. I think it was Dave Tate that said we don’t poop calories.

I know of a young female athlete that overused laxatives to the point that she ruined the lining in most of her colon, or something to that effect. She needed all sorts of surgery to get it fixed, besides psychiatric treatment for the bulemia.

Indeed, most purging is in the form of self-induced vomiting, but bulemic purging can also be achieved through the overuse of laxatives or fiber or excessive exercise (like 4 hour fasted cardio). Some bulemics do not purge but still binge eat.

12

On the Anabolic Diet I shit like 2-3x per day…

13

[quote]Xab wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Although I do not have a specific number, wouldn’t the effect of too much psyllium hindering absorption be observable in one’s droppings?

I would think that the number may not be a solid number by itself, but maybe more a ratio of fibers that speed transit up, and fibers that congest intestional traffic. As I routinely have over 20g of Psyllium a day, yet over 30g from vegetable sources, which seem like large numbers but have served me great.

Edit: Never knew the word ‘purging’ applied to laxatives, interesting.
[/quote]

More fiber just means you’re delaying the rate at which food is absorbed, especially in the case of carbs. Unless you have terrible diarrhea or something, your body is extremely good at getting every tiny last calorie out of the food you eat. I think it was Dave Tate that said we don’t poop calories.

I know of a young female athlete that overused laxatives to the point that she ruined the lining in most of her colon, or something to that effect. She needed all sorts of surgery to get it fixed, besides psychiatric treatment for the bulemia.

Indeed, most purging is in the form of self-induced vomiting, but bulemic purging can also be achieved through the overuse of laxatives or fiber or excessive exercise (like 4 hour fasted cardio). Some bulemics do not purge but still binge eat. [/quote]

To get off topic of bulimia, as I doubt that is a concern with either of us; I believe you are overthinking this problem. Many people on these forums have over 50g of fiber a day from various sources, and some intake over 100g. I have yet to hear of this high fiber intake to be harmful to one’s microvilli.

Your initial question pertains to nutrient absorption, which takes place in the small intestine. Laxatives act upon the large intestine and colon, and nutrient absorption (outside of water) takes place in the small intestine.

Also, delaying nutrient absorption is not the only function of dietary fiber. Have you noticed that those with a good fibre intake poop at least once a day, sometimes more, yet you, who have a question about proper fiber intake, are pooping 2-3 times a week? That’s the opposite of delaying transit.

And PLEASE get off the topic of laxatives, if everyone replying to these posts are trying to answer to the best of their abilities about fiber, and you keep rambling on about how laxatives are bad for your intestines, you will stop getting any responses outside of flaming.
Dietary Fiber is NOT the same as medicinal Laxatives.

14

I’m not sure were I read this, but somewhere recently I read something about more fat being needed to properly eliminate (poop), the more protein you consume. Supposedly the reason cultures such as the Inuit who eat a high fat, high protein, low to no fiber diet are able to poop fine.
I don’t know how true this is, just something I read somewhere.

15

How many grams of fiber are you eating each day? Have you tracked your fiber consumption? IMO, everyone overestimates how much fiber they eat. “Well I had a salad and an apple, so I’m good for the day” LOL… Not even close.

16

I would say my fiber intake is probably around 10% of my carb intake. I logged my food from yesterday in fitday, and I had 200g carbs and 20g fiber.

I have logged before and seen upwards 35-45g fiber, but that was with a lot more carbs.

I deuce at least once daily, sometimes twice. I’d be lying if I said three times hasn’t happened.

I’ve done the AD before, also. That was 2x/day, and it was mostly liquid shits… yup, I said it… liquid shits with floating lettuce, spinach, and vegetable particles.

17

[quote]Xab wrote:
Overuse of fiber supplements is a form of bulemic purging. I am asking what that limit is. Bulemia nervosa and anorexia nervosa are metabolically damaging because your metabolism and cellular turnover are working at the absolute slowest levels because the body has been in prolonged starvation mode, and will use as much food as possible to gain fat. This is a very poor metabolic situation to be in.

So, over consumption of psyllium husk = bulemia = metabolic destruction. [/quote]

You are asking for a concrete, to-the-gram answer on a subject related to human physiology. Obviously, what constitutes “too much” fiber for you may very well not be for me.

And, I know of the detrimental effects regarding bulemia and anorexia, thanks, but what I have not heard of is accidental, chronic overdosing of fiber supplements leading to any sort of metabolic damage.

Your posts in this thread make me wonder whether or not you actually understand what you are talking about, or are simply regurgitating information you read somewhere. I only ask because you sound like you are quoting a bad textbook without bothering to apply any sort of common sense to what you are asking.

18

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

[quote]Xab wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Although I do not have a specific number, wouldn’t the effect of too much psyllium hindering absorption be observable in one’s droppings?

I would think that the number may not be a solid number by itself, but maybe more a ratio of fibers that speed transit up, and fibers that congest intestional traffic. As I routinely have over 20g of Psyllium a day, yet over 30g from vegetable sources, which seem like large numbers but have served me great.

Edit: Never knew the word ‘purging’ applied to laxatives, interesting.
[/quote]

More fiber just means you’re delaying the rate at which food is absorbed, especially in the case of carbs. Unless you have terrible diarrhea or something, your body is extremely good at getting every tiny last calorie out of the food you eat. I think it was Dave Tate that said we don’t poop calories.

I know of a young female athlete that overused laxatives to the point that she ruined the lining in most of her colon, or something to that effect. She needed all sorts of surgery to get it fixed, besides psychiatric treatment for the bulemia.

Indeed, most purging is in the form of self-induced vomiting, but bulemic purging can also be achieved through the overuse of laxatives or fiber or excessive exercise (like 4 hour fasted cardio). Some bulemics do not purge but still binge eat. [/quote]

To get off topic of bulimia, as I doubt that is a concern with either of us; I believe you are overthinking this problem. Many people on these forums have over 50g of fiber a day from various sources, and some intake over 100g. I have yet to hear of this high fiber intake to be harmful to one’s microvilli.

Your initial question pertains to nutrient absorption, which takes place in the small intestine. Laxatives act upon the large intestine and colon, and nutrient absorption (outside of water) takes place in the small intestine.

Also, delaying nutrient absorption is not the only function of dietary fiber. Have you noticed that those with a good fibre intake poop at least once a day, sometimes more, yet you, who have a question about proper fiber intake, are pooping 2-3 times a week? That’s the opposite of delaying transit.

And PLEASE get off the topic of laxatives, if everyone replying to these posts are trying to answer to the best of their abilities about fiber, and you keep rambling on about how laxatives are bad for your intestines, you will stop getting any responses outside of flaming.
Dietary Fiber is NOT the same as medicinal Laxatives.[/quote]

I was hoping for the basis of a number of grams of fiber that would serve as an upper ceiling. 75g? 100g? 200g? But seeing as though, as you have said, some individuals get 100g daily with no ill effects, that’s what I wanted to know. Damn, that was like pulling teeth. And I’ve stated the function of fiber multiple times. I know what it does. =) My original question pertained only to how much fiber - as in a number of grams - is too much.

The only reason I was talking about laxatives was pointing out that they can be used for bulemic purging, as can extreme overconsumption of fiber, because they both force your body to very quickly move food through the digestive tract, but through different mechanisms. And even then, the only reason I brought that up was because someone asked for clarification as to why extreme overconsumption of fiber is bad. That’s it. You’re taking this way away from what I was even talking about. I’m not trying to say laxatives should be used in place of fiber; ideally, no one would ever need to use a laxative because they would eat enough fiber! I’m not sure where you’re getting that idea.

19

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Xab wrote:
Overuse of fiber supplements is a form of bulemic purging. I am asking what that limit is. Bulemia nervosa and anorexia nervosa are metabolically damaging because your metabolism and cellular turnover are working at the absolute slowest levels because the body has been in prolonged starvation mode, and will use as much food as possible to gain fat. This is a very poor metabolic situation to be in.

So, over consumption of psyllium husk = bulemia = metabolic destruction. [/quote]

You are asking for a concrete, to-the-gram answer on a subject related to human physiology. Obviously, what constitutes “too much” fiber for you may very well not be for me.

And, I know of the detrimental effects regarding bulemia and anorexia, thanks, but what I have not heard of is accidental, chronic overdosing of fiber supplements leading to any sort of metabolic damage.

Your posts in this thread make me wonder whether or not you actually understand what you are talking about, or are simply regurgitating information you read somewhere. I only ask because you sound like you are quoting a bad textbook without bothering to apply any sort of common sense to what you are asking.[/quote]

If you read the topic, what I’m talking about makes sense… someone asked why overconsumption of fiber is bad. That blew up as everyone went off on bulemia. I wanted to know if there’s a number of grams of fiber that constitutes overconsumption. It’s a very simple question, but one that I cannot find the answer for.

20

Probably the reason you can’t find an answer for it is that:

  1. Even given the same exact type of fiber or mix of fibers, different people can respond quite differently. Thus a given number that might be an approximately correct upper limit for say 33% of the population might be too high a figure for a substantial percentage, and also unnecessarily low for another substantial percentage.

To make an analogy, asking for such an upper limit is like asking the upper limit one should use in training a given exercise, say the squat. Why is no such figure published? It surely is the case that for you there is some weight that is more than you should train with, so why isn’t this in print?

  1. In fact different substances counted as “fiber” may be entirely different in their tolerability for a given purpose. So a number that was a good upper limit for you for one substance counting as “fiber” or some given mix of substances could both be too high for you for some other possibility, or lower than necessary for some other possibility.

So this actually makes the problem even more unsuited to numerical answer than the first: The analogy would become one of asking what is the most weight a person should use when training an exercise, without specifying what exercise he means.