275lb bench isn’t really “horrific” compared to 405 squat and 450 dead. [/quote]
Yeah, you’re right. But it’s not exactly up to par either.
@Kingbeef: you’re a damn freek and your numbers have been going up nasty since I first saw you post, but if you’ve noticed an improvement in your progress since training this way then I’m definitely on the band wagon.[/quote]
Even if it’s only because it’s something different, I still like it.[/quote]
So before this you were doing something besides hitting a heavy set and a lighter set(s)? What were you doing?
[/quote]
Ramping sets of 8 on most exercises only hitting failure on the last set. So If I was going to do 3 sets of dumbbell presses for shoulders it’d look something like:
8 x 65’s
8 x 70’s
9 x 75’s <–failure
The other thing I like about the style of training talked about in this thread is the nervous system potentiation and earlier recruitment of the higher threshold motor units, which makes the subsequent sets feel even lighter.
[/quote]
ah, so thats why your shoulders look so small compared to your arms…
275lb bench isn’t really “horrific” compared to 405 squat and 450 dead. [/quote]
Yeah, you’re right. But it’s not exactly up to par either.
@Kingbeef: you’re a damn freek and your numbers have been going up nasty since I first saw you post, but if you’ve noticed an improvement in your progress since training this way then I’m definitely on the band wagon.[/quote]
Even if it’s only because it’s something different, I still like it.[/quote]
So before this you were doing something besides hitting a heavy set and a lighter set(s)? What were you doing?
[/quote]
Ramping sets of 8 on most exercises only hitting failure on the last set. So If I was going to do 3 sets of dumbbell presses for shoulders it’d look something like:
8 x 65’s
8 x 70’s
9 x 75’s <–failure
The other thing I like about the style of training talked about in this thread is the nervous system potentiation and earlier recruitment of the higher threshold motor units, which makes the subsequent sets feel even lighter.
[/quote]
Can you give an actual example of how you use the new ramping down method on your training?
So before this you were doing something besides hitting a heavy set and a lighter set(s)? What were you doing?
[/quote]
Ramping sets of 8 on most exercises only hitting failure on the last set. So If I was going to do 3 sets of dumbbell presses for shoulders it’d look something like:
8 x 65’s
8 x 70’s
9 x 75’s <–failure
The other thing I like about the style of training talked about in this thread is the nervous system potentiation and earlier recruitment of the higher threshold motor units, which makes the subsequent sets feel even lighter.
[/quote]
Oh alright, that’s pretty much the method Brick talks about in the “The Bodybuilding Bible” thread, but really close weights. Not that it would matter as long as progression is there but for sure those earlier sets would take away from the last one.
Workout today for chest/biceps was freaking awesome! I wisely backed off the volume today just to get a feel for the program. Went a little something like this:
Bench press: Warmup
135x5
135x10
185x1
225x1 Partials (top 4")
275x1
315x1
345x1 (probably should have done a cluster here) Work sets
237.5x5 (yes, I use 2.5lb increments)
217.5x6
195x7
DB Incline Press:
85’sx7 (I can usually only get this for 4 or 5 when working up)
77.5’sx8
70’sx7
And that was all it took for chest.
EZ Curl: Warmups
60x8
60x5
80x1
100x1 Work sets
115x8 (again, I usually only get about 5 at this weight)
105x9
95x10
DB curls:
50’sx8
45’sx9
40’sx10
finisher set of hammer curls - 25’sx20
So I set two PR’s, got in extra reps despite the reduced number of sets, and the arm workout resulted in pumped 17’s with only a bicep pump. I guess you’d count that as another PR, as my previous best was 16 7/8" with bi’s and tri’s pumped.
So now all that’s left to be seen is my progress over the next few weeks.
Workout today for chest/biceps was freaking awesome! I wisely backed off the volume today just to get a feel for the program. Went a little something like this:
Bench press: Warmup
135x5
135x10
185x1
225x1 Partials (top 4")
275x1
315x1
345x1 (probably should have done a cluster here) Work sets
237.5x5 (yes, I use 2.5lb increments)
217.5x6
195x7
DB Incline Press:
85’sx7 (I can usually only get this for 4 or 5 when working up)
77.5’sx8
70’sx7
And that was all it took for chest.
EZ Curl: Warmups
60x8
60x5
80x1
100x1 Work sets
115x8 (again, I usually only get about 5 at this weight)
105x9
95x10
DB curls:
50’sx8
45’sx9
40’sx10
finisher set of hammer curls - 25’sx20
So I set two PR’s, got in extra reps despite the reduced number of sets, and the arm workout resulted in pumped 17’s with only a bicep pump. I guess you’d count that as another PR, as my previous best was 16 7/8" with bi’s and tri’s pumped.
So now all that’s left to be seen is my progress over the next few weeks.[/quote]
Looks good. This is pretty much how I do things except I’ve never tried the heavy pin presses as an activation exercise before benching. What was your previous benching workout? (as in was this anymore than in the past for BB bench).
It really didn’t make much difference in flat bench other than getting more reps at the lower weights. Not having to ‘save some’ for the top weight lets you blast those sets all out, just as intense as the top set. The 237.5 was a scheduled progression and definitely wasn’t any easier than 235 was last time. Come to think of it, though, it was technically a PR.
EDIT: Sitting here thinking about it, those heavy partials have GOT to provide a good bit of extra growth stimulation. I mean, it’s not a full bench press, but it is quite a bit over my max, and they’re damn sure not easy
I like this a lot better than the close ramp sets that deinitely make it hard to use max wts. But why not just do the one set and than do another excecise and do the same thing again? That way you get your volume in but cam try and progress on a few excercises at once.
quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
SHIT that is wicked!
Workout today for chest/biceps was freaking awesome! I wisely backed off the volume today just to get a feel for the program. Went a little something like this:
Bench press: Warmup
135x5
135x10
185x1
225x1 Partials (top 4")
275x1
315x1
345x1 (probably should have done a cluster here) Work sets
237.5x5 (yes, I use 2.5lb increments)
217.5x6
195x7
DB Incline Press:
85’sx7 (I can usually only get this for 4 or 5 when working up)
77.5’sx8
70’sx7
And that was all it took for chest.
EZ Curl: Warmups
60x8
60x5
80x1
100x1 Work sets
115x8 (again, I usually only get about 5 at this weight)
105x9
95x10
DB curls:
50’sx8
45’sx9
40’sx10
finisher set of hammer curls - 25’sx20
So I set two PR’s, got in extra reps despite the reduced number of sets, and the arm workout resulted in pumped 17’s with only a bicep pump. I guess you’d count that as another PR, as my previous best was 16 7/8" with bi’s and tri’s pumped.
So now all that’s left to be seen is my progress over the next few weeks.[/quote]
Looks good. This is pretty much how I do things except I’ve never tried the heavy pin presses as an activation exercise before benching. What was your previous benching workout? (as in was this anymore than in the past for BB bench). [/quote]
[quote]Eric22 wrote:
I like this a lot better than the close ramp sets that deinitely make it hard to use max wts. But why not just do the one set and than do another excecise and do the same thing again? That way you get your volume in but cam try and progress on a few excercises at once.
[/quote]
No need to ramp up again, which I really like about it. If you know your lifts, you head straight to the top set of the next movement, then ramp down.
I could definitely see using two work sets for three lifts, but I’m not sure if I could recover properly with any more volume than that. If you include the activation sets (the partials), I did nine sets total, and my chest was pretty damn blasted. I could still feel it this morning, and I have another chest workout to do tomorrow.
I met Lee Labrada back in the 80s and he introduced me to reverse pyramids. I like them because you can go to failure on every set. I increase weight the next workout when my 1st set rep goal is met. I usually drop 10 lbs per set on compound movements and 5 lbs on isolation movements and usually match the reps of the last set and sometimes increase by 1-2 reps. You will not need to do very many sets since you are going to all out form failure each set.
It’s good because if you are doing low reps (e.g. worked up to a 3-6RM), then you often feel “spent” but haven’t done enough volume for hypertrophy…so the next logical step is to reduce the load and kick out another set or two of higher reps.
That’s far more appealing than taking another 3+ sets of low rep sets to failure just so that the TUT is decent enough LOL.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
This is how I have always trained, although I would hesitate to call it “ramping”. Ramping is a concept where you are progressively warming up the CNS AND the musclulo-skeletal system for one top set, while simultaneously using those lighter sets to increase the volume of your workout.
What you are describing is a “heavy” warm-up with multiple singles and then three straight sets to failure. If you take your work sets all the way out (or nearly all the way out), you will HAVE to decrease the following set(s) by 5-10% each.
If you can use the same weight for sets 2 and 3 that you used for set 1, you didn’t exhaust any motor units on set 1 and I look at that as a big waste of time and energy.
[/quote]
Well, assuming you want to keep with the exact same number of reps. If you’re pushing 3 sets to failure I don’t necessarily see a problem with something like 405x6,5,4 and increasing weight on all 3 when you hit the top of the rep range on the first set (be that 5,6,7 or whatever)
[quote]
But you are definitely correct in that its a fantastic way to train. I’ve been making the greatest gains I’ve made in the past 10 years using the 5-10-15 rep scheme lately, which is a modified but very similar concept to what you are saying. [/quote]
I would imagine that you would be doing a set of 5 to failure, 10 to failure and 15 to failure? So basically 2 back off sets instead of one.
I remember when I first learned about ramping to a top set or 2, or even something like IronAddict says about 4x8 with the same weight and not increasing until you get 8,8,8,8 (which I really don’t like…slower progression and only 1 real all out set while the first 2-3 don’t feel like much)
I thought to myself “Wow I was so stupid I used to train all sets to failure actually lowering the weight and then doing more sets to the same rep range” and then I realized it really wasn’t that stupid lol.
Diggin’ it so far, but it is really demanding. Gonna take a little getting used to. I do feel that this is a much more efficient use of my gym time, though. Can’t wait to see what kind of progress it gets me.
Big PR already for bench. Hit 250 for 4 reps today, was hoping for 3. Previous best was 2 with a failed attempt at a third. That should put me at about 285 for a 1RM according to my past numbers. We’ll see on Wednesday. Also got 9 for my last set on Inc DB Press, same weights as last time.
PR’d on DB curls as well, with 60’sx5.
If this keeps going, I’ll nail my goals waaaay ahead of schedule!
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Big PR already for bench. Hit 250 for 4 reps today, was hoping for 3. Previous best was 2 with a failed attempt at a third. That should put me at about 285 for a 1RM according to my past numbers. We’ll see on Wednesday. Also got 9 for my last set on Inc DB Press, same weights as last time.
PR’d on DB curls as well, with 60’sx5.
If this keeps going, I’ll nail my goals waaaay ahead of schedule![/quote]
Cool…glad I could contribute something that someone found useful. Like I said, this was in no means my idea. I got it from a powerlifter name Tony Hardridge who is based out of OC, Ca. I am not sure if he is still active or not, but I know he was legit cuz I personally saw him double 900 in the squat.
Also saw him win a bet. He had to incline 315x15 (with pauses) and he did it. The prize package was 2 4x4 burgers at In-N-Out. You have to be from the Western USA to know about In-N-Out.
All I know is I was a “moderately” experienced powerlifter (few meets under my belt) when he introduced me to it. And within one training cycle (approx 8-10 weeks I believe) I was able to hit PB’s on all 3 of my lifts.
Lately my focus has been on hypertrophy so I am employing the same “reverse ramping” or “reverse pyramid” or “de-escalation” or whatever you want to call it, but I am using a higher rep range and applying it more toward bb’ing. As a result I am able to handle heavier poundages while maintaing the same volume based soley on the way I structure my sets.
How high would you say the bar is from your chest at the bottom of the pin presses? I see its only the top 4" but distance from chest would depend on arm length too. I did CG pin presses today and used more weight than expected, but was only about 5-6in off the chest, so I was still doing the majority of the ROM and I have long arms (whereas I would imagine only the top 4in would allow for much more weight, which I guess is the point with priming yourself for the bench).
I set the pins to 8 on a normal bench press, and the bar sits right in front of the #16 hole when it’s on the hooks. On the pin presses, I set the pins to 13, so right around 8-9" off my chest. That actually gives me a 5-5.5" ROM, I guess.
Pin pressing 60-70 lbs more than your max for a cluster of three is definitely an awesome confidence booster before benching. When I unracked 285, I instantly though “oh fuck yeah, I got this shit!”. I am fully confident I could have added a little bit more weight and still hit it.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I set the pins to 8 on a normal bench press, and the bar sits right in front of the #16 hole when it’s on the hooks. On the pin presses, I set the pins to 13, so right around 8-9" off my chest. That actually gives me a 5-5.5" ROM, I guess.
Pin pressing 60-70 lbs more than your max for a cluster of three is definitely an awesome confidence booster before benching. When I unracked 285, I instantly though “oh fuck yeah, I got this shit!”. I am fully confident I could have added a little bit more weight and still hit it.[/quote]
So you’re full ROM is ~14in? Damn mine is like 2 feet lol