[quote](A guy asks if hack squat is useful since his college does not have any squat racks only squat machines)
Rip: I recommend that you change colleges.
Seriously, what DOES your gym have?[/quote]
Haha maybe it’s because it’s a British gym, it’s not a college gym by the way, a public one. It’s 80% just machines, although it does have a ton of dumbbells ranging from all weights and obviously a few benches. But no plain barbells.
Why can’t you just use a barbell from one of the benches? If you can clean it, that gives you the ability to do front squats and overhead presses. If you can’t clean it but you have a couple benches, that gives you the option to use zerchers.
And if you have access to any bar, that gives you barbell rows, deadlifts, snatch-grip deadlifts, jefferson lifts, hip squats (with a belt), etc.
Sorry for being pretty unclear, there are no barbells that aren’t off the smith machine. Only one barbell, and it’s on the smith machine. I’ve attached a picture of the program (Starting strength) that I’m going to try and follow, it’s pretty basic stuff.
I’m able to do the Press, as well as the Bench Press (you can slide a small bench under the smith machine, making it exactly like a normal bench press) and the deadlift. Although the deadlift’s ROM is restricted as the bar can’t go all the way to the floor (health and safety crap) but it’s still better than no deadlift.
I had a look at the FAQ of the program and found that they are completely against squatting with a Smith Machine. So I need an alternative to the front squat?
[quote]Flight1 wrote:
Only one barbell, and it’s on the smith machine. I’ve attached a picture of the program (Starting strength) that I’m going to try and follow, it’s pretty basic stuff.
I’m able to do the Press, as well as the Bench Press (you can slide a small bench under the smith machine, making it exactly like a normal bench press) and the deadlift. Although the deadlift’s ROM is restricted as the bar can’t go all the way to the floor (health and safety crap) but it’s still better than no deadlift.[/quote]
To make sure we’re all on the same page… Starting Strength only needs you to do five exercises, and in your gym, you’d have to find substitutes for all five of those exercises, but you still want to do the Starting Strength program.
It sucks, but if you can’t get into another gym, I’d really suggest figuring out a different program. There’s simply no legitimate, productive way to do the “Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training” routine without a barbell.
Check out the Upper/Lower split I wrote here:
Sub-in dumbbells for the deadlift, Romanian deadlift, flat bench press, and barbell row (or maybe not, Smith rows can be a pretty solid exercise). You can probably “get away” with using the Smith for squats on the first lower day, as long as you’re not dumb with the form, because you’re already doing Goblet squats (a dumbbell variation) right before.
Also, I’m really happy to see you’re sticking with the training. You’ve already shown way more consistency than a lot of guys who drift through the Beginners forum.
Not sure on the details, but supposedly the absolutely straight path of the bar which is enforced by the smith machine isn’t exactly natural, and it can hurt your back.
[quote]Der_Steppenwolfe wrote:
Not sure on the details, but supposedly the absolutely straight path of the bar which is enforced by the smith machine isn’t exactly natural, and it can hurt your back.
[/quote]
Any machine, or exercise, can potentially harm you. machines, dumbbells, barbell, it’s all harmful if done incorrectly.
The same goes for the smith machine.
In general, smith machines are considered ‘safer’ exactly for the reason you said. The plane of motion is predetermined for you, thus removing the element of stabilization. Great for finishing sets, or if you’re working with shoulders injuries etc.
BIG apologies guys, I’ve managed to find out that there ARE normal barbells in the gym. There is in fact another (relatively small) room where I can find everything I need. It’s tucked away and you would never spot it but thankfully a guy I talked to at the gym showed it to me. I really do apologise for wasting your time, it turns out this is no longer a problem for me.
I’m not a fan of saying “this is bad and this is good” because that’s never the case. It’s always about -what are you trying to achieve- aka what’s the goal here?
I’m big-time against any type of machine-usage (unless it’s like, finishing your leg day with sets of machine squats), but to say “don’t squat using a smith machine because it’s dangerous” is an extremely stupid, just plain ignorant.
In fact, it’s the opposite. If you are injured(or recovering), you’re better of Smith Machining it up, for a while.
shrug
From what I’ve read, some movements are so dangerous and/or crass that they should be avoided, however they’re performed. I’ve no experience with the smith machine, so I wouldn’t feel qualified to put it in that category. Not that I’m going to go all Stuart McRoberts either and start writing off whole categories of productive, relatively safe exercises. I clean and press for god’s sake.
But yeah, straight leg situps? Bunny hops? I’ve been told not to bother.
I’ve also read (somewhere) it’s bad for the knees to squat on a smith machine… unless you alter the form by moving the feet out front and sort of lean back to target the quads.
[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
I’ve also read (somewhere) it’s bad for the knees to squat on a smith machine… unless you alter the form by moving the feet out front and sort of lean back to target the quads.[/quote]
Smith machine, hack squat, back-squat, front-squat,
If your knees are in-front(ahead of them) of your toes, then you have bad form and I would expect you to have knee pain or injuries after some time.
here’s what I did last time I was in jail (3mths) 3day split Day 1, 1000 pushups through out the day I’d do 4 sets of 25x10, Day 2, 600 pullups through out the day I’d do 6 sets of 10x10, day 3 1000 single leg squats through out the day I’d do 4 sets of 25x10 day 4 I’d start the whole process over again. I went in at 235, and got out at 250, I ate, and slept a ton. Goodluck !
This is what the guy from Starting Strength said on the subject by the way:
““Squatting” in a Smith machine is a oxymoron. A squat cannot be performed on a Smith machine, as should be obvious from all previous discussion. Sorry. There is a gigantic difference between a machine that makes the bar path vertical, and a squat that is excecuted correctly enough to have a vertical bar path. Muscle and skeleton should do the job of keeping the bar path vertical, not grease fittings and floor bolts.”
That’s the original reason I was sceptical, obviously it’s no issue anymore but yeah.
I agree… but specifically in the case of the smith machine… that smith squats should be done almost like an entirely different exercise than a conventional squat, and that conventional squating, even with good form, on the smith is bad for the knees.
That being said, this is just stuff I’ve picked up here and there and don’t have any experience with. All I use the smith for is decline bench and inverted rows.
[quote]Flight1 wrote:
BIG apologies guys, I’ve managed to find out that there ARE normal barbells in the gym. There is in fact another (relatively small) room where I can find everything I need. It’s tucked away and you would never spot it but thankfully a guy I talked to at the gym showed it to me. I really do apologise for wasting your time, it turns out this is no longer a problem for me.[/quote]
Right. Yesterday I went to the room where the barbells are. There ARE barbells there, amongst a lot of other equipment, which is obviously good. Trouble is, there are no racks! Making it very hard to squat. I managed to do the bench press, making sure I very carefully lowered the bar on to my belly before rolling it down but this is hardly encouraging…
There’s of course no problem with doing deadlifts, nor presses or power cleans with this but I think it’s going to be annoying for squats. Should I do other another squat exercise instead? Goblet squats? And do you have any tips for what I should do with the bench press? It’s not a problem now as I only bench 110 pounds but it will be later on
First of all: learn how to power clean. This will give you way more options since it will allow you to get heavier weight up to shoulder height.
Here’s a list of barbell exercises that you can do with no rack or bench:
legs:
deadlift
hack squat
high rep front squat (after cleaning the barbell)
front squat lunges (after cleaning the barbell)
jefferson deadlift
push:
military press
floor press
pull:
barbell row
barbell clean
It won’t be ideal but it’s something to work with. Add a pull up bar and you have everything Chad Waterbury had as a teenager
