Ever had a 4 year old look at you and ask “…but WHY???”
Well…a good friend wanted me to get him started with a workout and nutrition program. Cool. I tossed around some ideas…had him look at this site to see if he had some questions…laid out a diet…
Well…we got to the question of sets, reps and PROGRESSION . In my best “Ian” voice, I said “…well for hypertrophy…8-12 reps…start with a weight where the eighth rep is hard, and when you can do 12 good reps…increase the weight, oh about 5%…do 2-3 sets…”
Well…to my question…my friend said "Cool…that takes care of the FIRST set…got it…BUT AS I’M PROGRESSING, WHAT DO I DO WITH THE SECOND AND THIRD SET? uummmm…
Okay gang…what would you tell a motivated beginner? Do as many reps on the 2nd and 3rd set as you can? Increase the weights on the 2nd and 3rd set? Just take the 2nd and 3rd set to failure? Drop the weight each successive set? There may not be one correct answer…so that’s why I’m running it by you guys!
With a beginner, just make sure that they are consistent in whatever strategy they use in their workouts. A training log is a must. Really, I think the person that you described will see progress using any of the strategies you mentioned, as long as they keep at it and write everything down. Make sure they listen to some Earth, Wind & Fire pre-workout, too.
IMO they are all correct answers. There is time and place for all of them. Start with one, use it for 3 weeks, and then switch to a different one, and so on. it will keep him motivated and not suffer diminishing returns
Here’s what I would say: First, instead of having him go up to 12 reps before upping the weight, have him shoot for 8 reps on all sets. When he hits 8 reps for all sets, THEN go up in weight.
If I were you, I definitely would NOT have this guy doing 12 reps sets. If he wants to get big as quick as possible, he needs to lift HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY, using compound movements. That might look like 3-5 EASY warm-up sets, then jumping right into HARD 4-6 rep sets. Of course I understand that for the first 3 months (max) you might want to just have him build up his stabilizers and strength first, so he can successfully do the compound exercises later.
You mentioned hypertrophy as your goal for the initial program. If you are limiting the rest sufficiently, to 60 seconds, fatigue will set in as the muscle warms up for the 2nd and 3rd sets, so he should be able to stick with the same weight. This eliminates complexity for beginners. You could introduce slight longer eccentric times for the last set, without increasing weight. I think you chose well, because, especially for beginners, the joints and tendons need time to respond to the new stresses, and you don’t want to go too heavy too fast.
I thought that what Nylo said was Perfect! Keep the rest periods short. Use same # of reps on each work-set; fatigue should set in by the 2nd + 3rd sets! Teach him to control the negatives … After he has a year of training under his belt … as Choad said —
heavier weights, more sets, less reps!
P.S. Tell your disciple - “when he can snatch the pebble from your hand, it will be time to leave!”
Joey and Nylo…question…for the 2nd and 3rd worksets…maybe periodically “mix it up”? Say increase weight AND/OR increase eccentrics (from what I’ve seen and read maybe increasing eccentric time is a better way to go, like you said. I’m just beginning to fully appreciate that the concept of “Time Under Tension” is one of our most important variables).
Again…not looking for a “right” or “wrong” answer; just a sound one…
Have you read Ian King’s Get Buffed? If not, I suggest you do and your question would be answered. If so, then reread some chapters. Of course some of that information is posted here on T-mag but some of is not. Good luck!
Don’t feel bad; this purely means that you’re doing things right for yourself! What do I mean? You couldn’t tell him because you rely on instinct (I refuse to give Joe Weider credit for the instinctive training principle): something which a beginner is yet to gain. Once he gets going and has a few months of training under his belt(and reads T-Mag, of course), he’ll begin to learn when to push himself further, when to stay at the same weight, and when to call it quits.
Giving your trainee choices between upping the weight or lengthening negatives for the latter sets after they are seasoned seems like a good way to add variation and maintain interest. It’s important for motivation to see an increase in strength. You could suggest, from time-to-time, a variation where the rest periods are extended to 2 minutes with a proportionately higher weight. Your trainee will be surprised and further motivated to see this. But I think it is best at first to instill the need for control of the weight, starting with slower tempos. It’s not the weight that counts, it’s what stimulates the muscle to grow.
I think the previous answers should suffice. I just want to say that I admire his motivatedness. If half the regulars (at gyms) had his attitude, they would look far better. Keep him motivated! That’s more important than any program, not to discount the importance of a good program.
Mufasa: I “strongly” believe that trainees with less than 2 years of experience should keep things as simple and as uniform possible. This makes charting one’s progress much more precise! For a newbie, progress or progression of weight /volume/work is what it’s all about. Uniformity of cadence (see TC’s invaluable 4 second rule) as well as rep-schemes (i.e. 3 X 12 - 4 X 6) on work-sets is the best way to quantify one’s progress!
If a trainee is particularly strong on a given day, he may want to add a “little” extra weight or do an extra rep or two on his last work-set; but he shouldn’t get carried away! Remember, he doesn’t want to do anything in this workout out that will keep him from progressing in his next!
Joe; you bring up a VERY important point; CHARTING ONE’S PROGRESS!!! I think that that is VERY important, especailly for the beginner. I really think it falls in the same catagory as keeping a food log. You may “think” you are progressing and doing certain things in your workout…or eating “clean”…but let me tell you something. When you write it down in black and white, you may find something totally different.
So…to reiterate what Joe said…I think that charting one’s progress (via both workout AND food logs) is extremely important.
Thanks, Scott…yea…I’ve read “Get Buffed”. I don’t know…tell me if I’m wrong…Ian may be a “step or two” ahead of the average beginner in complexity? Or at least sometimes? You BET his advice is better than a lot of the crap out there. When I look or read something by Ian, I search for those pearls of wisdom in the PRINCIPLES he teaches. Let me give you an example of one that I STILL find to be enlightening (and that I always use when devising a workout):
“If you are simply attempting to create muscle breakdown as you may in hypertrophy training, the number of exercises may be more important than the number of SETS per exercise”. Cool stuff.
On progression? He does essentially the same thing that we are doing here in “Get Buffed”. He throws out a few possible scenarios (One of which is the “Step Loading” that’s been mentioned here. You add about 5 pounds on each successive set).
So…Ian doesn’t really give an “answer”…but possible scenarios (like we’re doing)…and a LOAD of great principles!
Okay here’s a question to you what are your friends goals in fitness? What is looking to
do? Does want to get bigger, lose weight run faster? Is he a runner wants to build more speed? Or is he just looking for over a general health. All of these things has a variable in program designing. Its not say go just lift weights… Find out what his goals are first then you create the workout… That is first and for most…
As a rule of thumb you should start a begginer at a 10 rep scheme 1-2 set per body part 10 sets all together and then increase the amount of exercise and he progress and number of sets. Donot train to faliure when he first starts out let him gradually get into it…
