I desperately need some advice before I meet with my doctor this Monday. I am 37 years old, 6’1", 200 pounds, <10%BF, good general health and follow all the basic information on diet and exercise - workout 4 days/week for 1 hour, stretch, do some cardio for general health (jogging and eliptical), eat 6-7 meals daily following Massive Eating guidelines, high protein (350g+), moderate carbs and fats, fish oil caps… Supplements include chelated zinc, Tribex and Surge during and after workouts. I believe I do everything I know within reason to create an anabolic environment for my body. Last week, I had blood drawn. Results were 98 ng/dl in a normal range of 241-827 ng/dl - off the charts low. I assumed it might be low due to the typical physical and mental signs, but not that low! I intend to get more testing for LH, FSH, estrodial and free test. Assume this is a good read. If I am going to pursue elevating my test levels, I would like to get them to a high normal reading if possible. After researching this website (Your Doctor, Your Dealer, additional searches…) it appears the path to take is a) first try Clomid 50mg/day. If this fails to provide results, b) try HCG at 500IU/daily. If this fails, c) go for test replacement at 200-300mg/week testosterone enanthate/cypionate. I still have more research to do, but my meeting is tomorrow. Here are some of my questions. 1) Is it worth trying Clomid or HCG if Tribex (which I have used several times per instructions) fails to give normal readings? 2) If I do try Clomid and/or HCG, how long should I give them before a retest to determine if they are effective? 3) Is there much difference in 98 ng/dl and no natural test production? i.e. does it matter if I go on test replacement and shut down my natural production given I have very little natural production? 4) Any other advice from those who have similar experiences? I want to direct my doctor in the treatment I will pursue, so I need to get up to speed in a hurry. Thank you for any advice.
Yes, if Tribex didn’t work to increase
your testosterone, Clomid may still work
because Clomid works by an entirely different
mechanism. And ditto for HCG, should Clomid
not work.
Free testosterone is really what should be
looked at, not total. Total has no signifance
per se and is only a poor method of getting an idea of what the free testosterone is. However,
most of the time if total is what yours is,
free is badly low also and indeed your results
are not much more than adrenal-only production.
(If SHBG levels are average – total is so to speak the product of both free testosterone and SHBG levels, so if you have low SHBG, your free would not be as bad, for same total, as if SHBG were high.)
I’d give the Clomid protocol 2 months to
see if it’s effective, and if it is partially
effective after that time I wouldn’t abandon
it yet, but give it up to another 2 months.
In some cases I’ve seen it take that long
where there was really severe suppression.
However, if you (understandably) become impatient and don’t feel good during this
period because of the low T, you could look
at supplementing with very low dose Androsol,
like 14-28 sprays in the morning only, which
should not interfere with your recovery but
will shore things up a bit with regard to your androgen level. Or oral Winstrol, say up to
15 mg on arising and 10 mg at noon, to be conservative.
HCG ought to work within one month.
Thanks Bill. I think I have a better understanding after additional research (a lot of your forum answers to similar Qs) and your response here. In regards to my other questions, did you have a thought on them as well? How long should you give each therapy before deeming it failed and moving on to the next option? I understand free T is the important count, but as you said, if total is 98, free ain’t looking too good. Since I only have the total count right now, is there much difference in 98ng/dl of total T versus 0? i.e. if these poor counts continue and I ultimately need to go to T replacement, it doesn’t appear the suprression of natural T is a big deal since I am virtually not producing right now. Is that correct thinking?