8500 Calories a Day, Frank Yang Bulking Diet

Nutrition
301

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

My dear angry perma bulking friend;

It is sad you are so upset that rather than discussing you’re reduced to begging for pictures of my body.

Regardless, I hope you enjoy my larger than Ronny Rockel physique.

And here’s another one posted before: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/forum_images/a/f/af997_ORIG-1.jpg

xOxOxOxO
[/quote]

Name calling really needed?

Whats your story? How long you been training? Whats your diet look like? You do it the lean gains way? Or were there times where the abs were a bit fuzzy?

Good physique. Bicep peaks are pretty damn big[/quote]

I’ve been training for 3 years, 2 seriously

I only eat clean these days. I did the megabulk shit once, leaned back down and decided it was not worth it. Never letting myself get fat again.
[/quote]

Nice

I think a lot of guys that have a good physique seem to have gone through the phase of i was a bit fatter than i like. Your just another on that list. I find it hard to beleive that gaining all that weight does not in any way contribute to your look or how you gain now. your body got pushed past limits and now those limits are broken through you can an approach weights leaner than you could before the big bulk. (hopefully that makes sense. Makes sense when i read it but i know what i am trying to say lol)

303

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

My dear angry perma bulking friend;

It is sad you are so upset that rather than discussing you’re reduced to begging for pictures of my body.

Regardless, I hope you enjoy my larger than Ronny Rockel physique.

And here’s another one posted before: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/forum_images/a/f/af997_ORIG-1.jpg

xOxOxOxO
[/quote]

Name calling really needed?

Whats your story? How long you been training? Whats your diet look like? You do it the lean gains way? Or were there times where the abs were a bit fuzzy?

Good physique. Bicep peaks are pretty damn big[/quote]

I’ve been training for 3 years, 2 seriously

I only eat clean these days. I did the megabulk shit once, leaned back down and decided it was not worth it. Never letting myself get fat again.
[/quote]

how much have you gained since you leaned out? genuinely curious.

304

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

… simply avoiding excess fat.
[/quote]

Define ‘excess fat’.

Nevermind. It doesn’t matter, really.

Post som pics please. At least show the obese permabulkers how it’s done.[/quote]

My dear angry perma bulking friend;

It is sad you are so upset that rather than discussing you’re reduced to begging for pictures of my body.

Regardless, I hope you enjoy my larger than Ronny Rockel physique.

And here’s another one posted before: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/forum_images/a/f/af997_ORIG-1.jpg

xOxOxOxO
[/quote]

You’ve done an admirable job of adhering to your screen name. You ARE a lean guy.

However, you are NOT a big guy who has done an admirable job of gaining mass.

As such one might want to seek your advice for leaning out and one would not want to seek your advice for bulking.[/quote]

I agree with this. You are a lean guy (want2getlean, not Push’s fat ass), and you look like you’ve been training 3 years. That’s great, you’re right on target. Kudos.

However, you look like a couple basketball players that train at my gym-- lean and some definition but doesn’t scream ‘size gain guru’. I’m not sure what you offer in experience for someone looking to gain for a few years before they level off or lean out.

Forum hopping and typing ‘permabulker’ every post just enforces a 6th grade mentality.

305

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

… simply avoiding excess fat.
[/quote]

Define ‘excess fat’.

Nevermind. It doesn’t matter, really.

Post som pics please. At least show the obese permabulkers how it’s done.[/quote]

My dear angry perma bulking friend;

It is sad you are so upset that rather than discussing you’re reduced to begging for pictures of my body.

Regardless, I hope you enjoy my larger than Ronny Rockel physique.

And here’s another one posted before: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/forum_images/a/f/af997_ORIG-1.jpg

xOxOxOxO
[/quote]

You’ve done an admirable job of adhering to your screen name. You ARE a lean guy.

However, you are NOT a big guy who has done an admirable job of gaining mass.

As such one might want to seek your advice for leaning out and one would not want to seek your advice for bulking.[/quote]

I agree with this. You are a lean guy (want2getlean, not Push’s fat ass), and you look like you’ve been training 3 years. That’s great, you’re right on target. Kudos.

However, you look like a couple basketball players that train at my gym-- lean and some definition but doesn’t scream ‘size gain guru’. I’m not sure what you offer in experience for someone looking to gain for a few years before they level off or lean out.

Forum hopping and typing ‘permabulker’ every post just enforces a 6th grade mentality.
[/quote]

Lean and some definition? LOL

307

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You’ve done an admirable job of adhering to your screen name. You ARE a lean guy.

However, you are NOT a big guy who has done an admirable job of gaining mass.

As such one might want to seek your advice for leaning out and one would not want to seek your advice for bulking.[/quote]

For what it’s worth, I’m 60lbs heavier than when I started, at a lower bf%.
Yeah I’m not the biggest guy in the world, but I’m young and have limited training experience. If I keep going up at this rate, I have nothing to worry about.

Regardless of my what you think of my size; gaining excess fat is a waste of time, and permabulking is not bodybuilding, it’s being a fat slob who lifts weights.
If you enjoy being fat and lifting weights so much, just get into strength sports.

308

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’m just an old fat guy who lifts weights.

And Steely…don’t dare make me challenge you to a “Who’s ass is fatter” contest. I will so, so, so impress the anti-permabulkers of this world with my amazingly lean ass if you do so. Not to mention how tan my cheeks are from mowing the lawn in the nude.[/quote]

All I shall say is “Kiss my fat Yeti-white ass”! :wink:

309

how much do you weigh want2getlean and how tall are you? (sorry if I missed it)

lookin good broham

310

Seriously, the name calling is ridiculous. I could see if this were some all out debate and it was going back and forth but acting like that for no reason and across different forums and threads needs to stop.

I guess someone lied and told them it was funny.

311

[quote]gregron wrote:
In my opinion, this is a basic breakdown of how muscle building works…

Your body needs a certain amount of rest to optimally build more muscle.

Your body needs a certain amount of fuel (food) to optimally build more muscle.

Your body needs a certain amount of stimulus (weight lifting/exercise) to optimally build more muscle.

Everyones body is different so that “certain amount” will be different for each person.

Ok so here we go…

Will giving your body more rest than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.

Will giving your body more fuel than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.

Will giving your body more stimulus than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.
[/quote]

There isn’t an optimal point. There are diminishing returns to eating more, but there isn’t an upper limit. For example the first 1000 calories excess might add 1lb of muscle the next 1000 might add 0.5lbs. The 1000 above that will add say 0.3lbs. But it’s still adding. (Pulled those numbers out of my arse just to illustrate the point)

That’s prof X’s point, he’d rather carry on eating to gain the muscle than limit himself. Seems perfectly reasonable. The extra muscle is worth more to him than adding some fat for a while.

If you don’t want to add the fat then you’re limiting your muscle growth by eating less for the sake of gaining less fat. But that’s your choice.

Really don’t see what all the fuss is about.

312

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You’ve done an admirable job of adhering to your screen name. You ARE a lean guy.

However, you are NOT a big guy who has done an admirable job of gaining mass.

As such one might want to seek your advice for leaning out and one would not want to seek your advice for bulking.[/quote]

Regardless of my what you think of my size; gaining excess fat is a waste of time, and permabulking is not bodybuilding, it’s being a fat slob who lifts weights.
If you enjoy being fat and lifting weights so much, just get into strength sports.
[/quote]

see but, anybody who has spent time in a gym with big fucking dudes knows when guys are bulking and when guys are cutting for a contest. guys like steely and profx (havent seen pics of push) are not fat “permabulkers”, they are big dudes you would not mess with in real life. its one thing to say theyre fat on the internet, but when youre beside them in real life with 52" chests and 19" arms, you know they are not “fat”, they are BIG.

fwiw i workout at a gym where i regularly see big fucking guys, non bodybuilders, but i also workout daily beside IFBB and NPC level pros.

313

[quote]Raided wrote:
There isn’t an optimal point. There are diminishing returns to eating more, but there isn’t an upper limit. For example the first 1000 calories excess might add 1lb of muscle the next 1000 might add 0.5lbs. The 1000 above that will add say 0.3lbs. But it’s still adding. (Pulled those numbers out of my arse just to illustrate the point)
[/quote]

^^I just don’t believe that the above is true.

agree to disagree.

314

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You’ve done an admirable job of adhering to your screen name. You ARE a lean guy.

However, you are NOT a big guy who has done an admirable job of gaining mass.

As such one might want to seek your advice for leaning out and one would not want to seek your advice for bulking.[/quote]

Regardless of my what you think of my size; gaining excess fat is a waste of time, and permabulking is not bodybuilding, it’s being a fat slob who lifts weights.
If you enjoy being fat and lifting weights so much, just get into strength sports.
[/quote]

see but, anybody who has spent time in a gym with big fucking dudes knows when guys are bulking and when guys are cutting for a contest. guys like steely and profx (havent seen pics of push) are not fat “permabulkers”, they are big dudes you would not mess with in real life. its one thing to say theyre fat on the internet, but when youre beside them in real life with 52" chests and 19" arms, you know they are not “fat”, they are BIG.

fwiw i workout at a gym where i regularly see big fucking guys, non bodybuilders, but i also workout daily beside IFBB and NPC level pros.[/quote]

I reallky need to find a gym like this when i move in Aug. madison better have somethign like that. The small town that I am from/currently living the gym is populated wiht mostly people over 60 adn think the 20lbs DBs are heavy. FML

315

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

And yes fat cell do pop out out, no it’s not out of nowhere. If you are 200lbs and 20% then that’s 40lb of fat. If a natural person goes to 300, assuming he stays at 20% which is highly unlikely thats 60lbs of fat. Yes Cells were added. 20 extra lbs of fat, and all kinds of new cells. I doubt even he would go back up to 300. 99% of extreme bulkers would not go up to the weight they originally did if they had to do it all over again. Specially competitors.
[/quote]

This is false. You don’t add more fat cells just because you hit a certain weight or because you are 20% body fat. Things like this are the reasons education gets mentioned so much.

As far as someone not going back up to a heavier weight once done before, maybe the job has been accomplished. I don’t ever plan on carrying as much body fat as I did near 300lbs, but to claim it had no effect on how I look now and didn’t aid in the level of muscle mass gained or the rate it was gained is ridiculous. Once again, you would have to at least give it the credit of leverage increasing strength gains not to mention what has already been stated about weight set points.

I hear that often from big guys who bulked up…as if bulking up is a secret. Many also leave it out completely if you ask how they did it.

You know…you would think the fact that so many have that in common would stand out to someone…but I guess not.

316

[quote]Raided wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
In my opinion, this is a basic breakdown of how muscle building works…

Your body needs a certain amount of rest to optimally build more muscle.

Your body needs a certain amount of fuel (food) to optimally build more muscle.

Your body needs a certain amount of stimulus (weight lifting/exercise) to optimally build more muscle.

Everyones body is different so that “certain amount” will be different for each person.

Ok so here we go…

Will giving your body more rest than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.

Will giving your body more fuel than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.

Will giving your body more stimulus than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.
[/quote]

There isn’t an optimal point. There are diminishing returns to eating more, but there isn’t an upper limit. For example the first 1000 calories excess might add 1lb of muscle the next 1000 might add 0.5lbs. The 1000 above that will add say 0.3lbs. But it’s still adding. (Pulled those numbers out of my arse just to illustrate the point)

That’s prof X’s point, he’d rather carry on eating to gain the muscle than limit himself. Seems perfectly reasonable. The extra muscle is worth more to him than adding some fat for a while.

If you don’t want to add the fat then you’re limiting your muscle growth by eating less for the sake of gaining less fat. But that’s your choice.

Really don’t see what all the fuss is about.[/quote]

So, you need to add fat in order to gain muscle? Is that what is believed to be true. Then how do you explain the many people i know, and myself included, that have not only gained size and not gained any fat, but have lost fat.

317

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Raided wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
In my opinion, this is a basic breakdown of how muscle building works…

Your body needs a certain amount of rest to optimally build more muscle.

Your body needs a certain amount of fuel (food) to optimally build more muscle.

Your body needs a certain amount of stimulus (weight lifting/exercise) to optimally build more muscle.

Everyones body is different so that “certain amount” will be different for each person.

Ok so here we go…

Will giving your body more rest than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.

Will giving your body more fuel than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.

Will giving your body more stimulus than it needs to optimally build muscle make you gain muscle faster? I say no.
[/quote]

There isn’t an optimal point. There are diminishing returns to eating more, but there isn’t an upper limit. For example the first 1000 calories excess might add 1lb of muscle the next 1000 might add 0.5lbs. The 1000 above that will add say 0.3lbs. But it’s still adding. (Pulled those numbers out of my arse just to illustrate the point)

That’s prof X’s point, he’d rather carry on eating to gain the muscle than limit himself. Seems perfectly reasonable. The extra muscle is worth more to him than adding some fat for a while.

If you don’t want to add the fat then you’re limiting your muscle growth by eating less for the sake of gaining less fat. But that’s your choice.

Really don’t see what all the fuss is about.[/quote]

So, you need to add fat in order to gain muscle? Is that what is believed to be true. Then how do you explain the many people i know, and myself included, that have not only gained size and not gained any fat, but have lost fat.
[/quote]

Lol, this made the thread.

318

X has some good points. For example, I personally could lift more weight for more reps in certain lifts when I was at a higher body fat percentage. Being able to lift more weight allows you to overload the muscles more.

I also had an obese friend in college who always surprised us with his strength. Thinking about it, he had to have a certain amount of muscle just to be able to move all that extra weight around all day, every day. From getting out of bed, getting dressed, walking to class. I’m not advocating becoming obese, just citing this as an example of how being at a higher weight puts a higher, constant load on certain muscles all day, just in order to stand up or move around. I believe this is one aspect of what people mean when they talk about “getting your body used to carrying extra weight”.

319

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
X has some good points. For example, I personally could lift more weight for more reps in certain lifts when I was at a higher body fat percentage. Being able to lift more weight allows you to overload the muscles more.

I also had an obese friend in college who always surprised us with his strength. Thinking about it, he had to have a certain amount of muscle just to be able to move all that extra weight around all day, every day. From getting out of bed, getting dressed, walking to class. I’m not advocating becoming obese, just citing this as an example of how being at a higher weight puts a higher, constant load on certain muscles all day, just in order to stand up or move around. I believe this is one aspect of what people mean when they talk about “getting your body used to carrying extra weight”. [/quote]

Yep.

Obviously if someone’s goal is to “tone up”, seriously putting on a bunch of weight with a serious goal of eventually being MUCH bigger and leaner would be avoided.

It seems that is where the disconnect is and why they relate this to obesity for some reason. My goal wasn’t “a few pounds of muscle”. I set out from the start to make some serious gains in size. The approach to do that for someone with my genetics helped me overall. There are pros and cons to everything you do in life, but repeating nutrition dogma from small personal trainers probably means you stopped looking for what works for you through trial and error.

320

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
X has some good points. For example, I personally could lift more weight for more reps in certain lifts when I was at a higher body fat percentage. Being able to lift more weight allows you to overload the muscles more. [/quote]

Being heavier gave you better leverages and better numbers???

Holy shit, someone better create weight classes in strength and fight sports.