[quote]Mick28 wrote:
I’m still hopeful that others will weigh in on the issue,
[/quote]
I think there is pretty much a consensus.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Hanly WTF? You start an arguement with opinions opposing mine only to use fact that show you apply what I say to your own training, but the guy in the video shouldn’t worry about it?.. You train with a guy who is not your friend? What do you do never say two words to him and just grunt? or are you just saying you go to the same gym as people who lift weights
[/quote]
HanlEy.
Where did I say not to try to prevent injuries? My point was the time needed to prvent sometthing as random and unlikely as a knee snapping on a squat walkout would require alot more effort than trying to maintain shoulder control and flexability around the hips. Snapping a knee on walk out’s unlikely, getting back problems from a tight hip, or shoudler problems from bad scapular control is far more likely and thus deserves more attention.
My gym houses a gourp of about 10 competitive powerlifters. Most of us lift at the same time and day each week and travel to competitions together. We’ll spot and load for each other in the gym and all usual stuff you’d expect with guys who train together.
I wouldn’t class that as “friendship” like. With the exception of one guy there I wouldn’t pick up the phone and get onto them if I was in trouble or something like that. Get what I mean?
[quote]Pinto wrote:
The T-Nation can pick a beef about anything. I say we take on another unresolved controversy: Chunky soup- fork or spoon? [/quote]
I think I’d go with a spoon. But a fork could be a good way to “shock” your stomach by eating all the good stuff then drinking the broth.
I’d like to know what T-mag thinks can be done to prevent it from raining at my house tomorrow. I’m sick of the rain.
Carry on.
Here are some sugestions to the question:
What can be done to prevent this kind of accident?
- Be strong enough to squat heavy weight.
- Be built to squat heavy weight.
- Use the proper equipment to squat heavy weight.
- Use the proper technique to squat heavy weight.
- Use more spotters if you attempt to squat heavy weight.
- Be mentally prepared to squat heavy weight.
[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
Here are some sugestions to the question:
What can be done to prevent this kind of accident?
- Be strong enough to squat heavy weight.
- Be built to squat heavy weight.
- Use the proper equipment to squat heavy weight.
- Use the proper technique to squat heavy weight.
- Use more spotters if you attempt to squat heavy weight.
- Be mentally prepared to squat heavy weight.
[/quote]
That’s not good enough because it’s not the answer he wants to hear 
Here’s a RADICAL idea on how to build up tendon and ligament strength… Work on squatting an extra 100lb!! I bet that brings them up.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
shogunassassin wrote:
This thread is an awesome indicator of how many PL competitors there are in this group.
Very few.
For the uninitiated, yet surprisingly opinionated, posters who are blathering about safety pins and squat racks- the guy was training for a meet. A meet that REQUIRES you to walk out with the weight.
Welcome to T-Nation. The new home of 135 pound twinks who are experts in training.
I am not a PLer - it just doesn’t do anything for me.
BUT - the Plers that train hard and the BBers that train hard are not all that different. I respect balls out effort. Period.
It is the twinks like Mick-boy and airtruth that just have to yammer to make sure they get their 15 minutes of fame.
And just to throw my 2 cents in - why all the worry about preventing the accident? Do you honestly think that someone capable of squatting 800 would do so without proper warm up and stretching? It’s called an accident for a reason. That’s a far cry from Mick-boy getting trapped under a 135lb ME bench press because he was distracted by his PT’s rock hard abs.
Let those that can, do. Let those twink boys affraid of injury remain small and jealous.
[/quote]
Well, I suppose it’s nice of them to take time out of their usy days of criticizing their betters, like Kroc, to pontificate about the relative level of safety in gyms, the potential for lawsuits, the apparent use of steroids (which is fucking stupid, because the guy is a fat motherfucker and SHOULD be able to squat 800 without a problem), and whatever else is going on in here.
I’m still reeling from a thread a few months back wherein people went berserk about bad squat form because a guy who was squatting 3x BW was an inch above parallel.
Wow.
[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
Here are some sugestions to the question:
What can be done to prevent this kind of accident?
- Be strong enough to squat heavy weight.
- Be built to squat heavy weight.
- Use the proper equipment to squat heavy weight.
- Use the proper technique to squat heavy weight.
- Use more spotters if you attempt to squat heavy weight.
- Be mentally prepared to squat heavy weight.
[/quote]
None of that would have helped.
He was strong enough, but had a momentary loss of balance.
He was using proper equipment.
He was using decent form.
He had adequate spotters, but failed too quickly for anyone to react.
He was apparently hell-bent on hitting that weight that day.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
baretta wrote:
I dont see the reason behing the idea that no safety percautions can be taken to prevent this type of injury. I’m sure SOMETHING can be put in place to prevents weights from crushing people, even with a walkout.
I also dont understand why everytime someone suggested that in this thread he got attacked by all the He-man’s saying “Fuck you pussy, you aren’t a powerlifter, you aint dick, fuck off”
Eat more bran people.
This is just silly. What can you do? Use a machine? Not get under the weight? Use less weight? It happened in a split second. Nothing could have been done. It’s the chance you take.
Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?
The only reason that Mickey, or whatever is going on about this is because he was told the truth. He can’t handle the truth. He can’t handle people calling him out. He can’t handle the fact that no one gives a shit about his question.
Come up with some decent preventative measures, and then discuss. Just saying “SOMETHING can be done” is empty and pointless. “SOMETHING should be done” about drunk drivers, and child molesters, as well.
But guess what? Shit still happens. There is no preventing that if you are a participant in society, or - in this case - lift heavy weight.
[/quote]
Yes I agree that accidents happen. They are unpredictable and for the most part, unpreventable. I would argue that the results of such accidents can be minimized by including safety equipment. Even with a walkout you can still have support bars attached to the floor to catch a falling weight before it crushes someone.
To say nothing can be done at all doesn’t make any sense, because something can ALWAYS be done to make something safer.
[quote]shogunassassin wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
Here are some sugestions to the question:
What can be done to prevent this kind of accident?
- Be strong enough to squat heavy weight.
- Be built to squat heavy weight.
- Use the proper equipment to squat heavy weight.
- Use the proper technique to squat heavy weight.
- Use more spotters if you attempt to squat heavy weight.
- Be mentally prepared to squat heavy weight.
None of that would have helped.
He was strong enough, but had a momentary loss of balance.
He was using proper equipment.
He was using decent form.
He had adequate spotters, but failed too quickly for anyone to react.
He was apparently hell-bent on hitting that weight that day.
[/quote]
That question is easy to answer. Just don’t go to the gym. 
[quote]mattwray wrote:
Pinto wrote:
I’d like to know what T-mag thinks can be done to prevent it from raining at my house tomorrow. I’m sick of the rain.
Carry on.
[/quote]
You can’t prevent it from raining, but you can prevent yourself from getting wet. You have a roof to protect you from the elements and you can buy rain coats to keep you dry. Again, you cant always prevent circumstances, but you can minimize the results.
[quote]baretta wrote:
Yes I agree that accidents happen. They are unpredictable and for the most part, unpreventable. I would argue that the results of such accidents can be minimized by including safety equipment. Even with a walkout you can still have support bars attached to the floor to catch a falling weight before it crushes someone.
To say nothing can be done at all doesn’t make any sense, because something can ALWAYS be done to make something safer.[/quote]
baretta,
I don’t think anyone is saying you shouldn’t take steps to minimize accidents, of course you should. General precautions should always be taken, the people that replied would assume that these are taken.
Nobody could squat 800lbs without years training. Over that time the person would have missed lifts with lessor weights, probably stuck in the hole, had weight pushing them forward so they lose balance (not necessarily fall, but miss the lift), etc…
Over that time, the person would have addressed their weaknesses and improved technique. When I was younger I thought I knew how to squat, now every time I put more weight on the bar, I realize I know nothing about squatting.
As for squatting with safety bars, for the most part I agree, why not train in a cage. In this situation his injury still would have happened, but others could be prevented.
What you need to consider however is that in a meet there are no safety bars. I’m a firm believer in practicing your sport with “game conditions”. If you don’t need game conditions for technique (ie. walkout), you likely will need them for mental preparation.
That said, I think he could do most of his training in a cage, but as a meet approaches he would likely do more and more under “game conditions”. But as I said before, every time I squat I realize I don’t know shit about squatting so I couldn’t tell him how to prevent it next time.
[quote]baretta wrote:
mattwray wrote:
Pinto wrote:
I’d like to know what T-mag thinks can be done to prevent it from raining at my house tomorrow. I’m sick of the rain.
Carry on.
You can’t prevent it from raining, but you can prevent yourself from getting wet. You have a roof to protect you from the elements and you can buy rain coats to keep you dry. Again, you cant always prevent circumstances, but you can minimize the results.[/quote]
Did you watch the video? He didn’t get hurt by the weights hitting him, he got hurt walking out. No amount of safety bars or anything would have made any difference in his leg breaking while walking out a squat.
[quote]mattwray wrote:
I’d like to know what T-mag thinks can be done to prevent it from raining at my house tomorrow. I’m sick of the rain.
Carry on.
[/quote]
My kids have tried the song
“Rain, rain go away
Come again another day…”
No guarantees but hey it’s worth a shot and I’m sure you’d get some strange looks from your neighbours. 
It is just the nature of the sport.
How could I have prevented my shredding my ACL?
How can my buddy have prevented tearing his achilles?
I suppose if we didn’t play rugby it wouldn’t have happened but what the hell fun is life if you take that attitude?
Minimize risk but don’t eliminate it.
This guy didn’t do anything risky to cause the injury beyond trying to squat a heavy weight.
This injury wuld have never happened in a Bowflex. Bowflex uses tension rod technology to give you proven results. All training should be done with a Bowflex to prevent injury.
[quote]mattwray wrote:
baretta wrote:
mattwray wrote:
Pinto wrote:
I’d like to know what T-mag thinks can be done to prevent it from raining at my house tomorrow. I’m sick of the rain.
Carry on.
You can’t prevent it from raining, but you can prevent yourself from getting wet. You have a roof to protect you from the elements and you can buy rain coats to keep you dry. Again, you cant always prevent circumstances, but you can minimize the results.
Did you watch the video? He didn’t get hurt by the weights hitting him, he got hurt walking out. No amount of safety bars or anything would have made any difference in his leg breaking while walking out a squat.
[/quote]
I’m beginning to think some of the people who are making suggestions haven’t actually watched the video alright!!
[quote]mattwray wrote:
baretta wrote:
mattwray wrote:
Pinto wrote:
I’d like to know what T-mag thinks can be done to prevent it from raining at my house tomorrow. I’m sick of the rain.
Carry on.
You can’t prevent it from raining, but you can prevent yourself from getting wet. You have a roof to protect you from the elements and you can buy rain coats to keep you dry. Again, you cant always prevent circumstances, but you can minimize the results.
Did you watch the video? He didn’t get hurt by the weights hitting him, he got hurt walking out. No amount of safety bars or anything would have made any difference in his leg breaking while walking out a squat.
[/quote]
Yes, I did watch the video. In this instance the weight didn’t end up across his neck, he was lucky. Again, I agree you can’t prevent all injuries, but you can minimize a lot of the damage they cause by using safer equipment (i.e things to catch falling weights).
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
baretta wrote:
Yes I agree that accidents happen. They are unpredictable and for the most part, unpreventable. I would argue that the results of such accidents can be minimized by including safety equipment. Even with a walkout you can still have support bars attached to the floor to catch a falling weight before it crushes someone.
To say nothing can be done at all doesn’t make any sense, because something can ALWAYS be done to make something safer.
baretta,
I don’t think anyone is saying you shouldn’t take steps to minimize accidents, of course you should. General precautions should always be taken, the people that replied would assume that these are taken.
Nobody could squat 800lbs without years training. Over that time the person would have missed lifts with lessor weights, probably stuck in the hole, had weight pushing them forward so they lose balance (not necessarily fall, but miss the lift), etc…
Over that time, the person would have addressed their weaknesses and improved technique. When I was younger I thought I knew how to squat, now every time I put more weight on the bar, I realize I know nothing about squatting.
As for squatting with safety bars, for the most part I agree, why not train in a cage. In this situation his injury still would have happened, but others could be prevented.
What you need to consider however is that in a meet there are no safety bars. I’m a firm believer in practicing your sport with “game conditions”. If you don’t need game conditions for technique (ie. walkout), you likely will need them for mental preparation.
That said, I think he could do most of his training in a cage, but as a meet approaches he would likely do more and more under “game conditions”. But as I said before, every time I squat I realize I don’t know shit about squatting so I couldn’t tell him how to prevent it next time.[/quote]
Good post. I agree with you.
I’m just saying that maybe “game conditions” can include a cage. In the end though, it’s up to the people that compete to change the rules. If they feel they dont need it then no one is going to convince them otherwise.
[quote]shogunassassin wrote:
None of that would have helped.
He was strong enough, but had a momentary loss of balance.
He was using proper equipment.
He was using decent form.
He had adequate spotters, but failed too quickly for anyone to react.
He was apparently hell-bent on hitting that weight that day.
[/quote]
As I see it, he probably had a microfracture beforehand in his left leg, which he didn’t notice or didn’t care about. When he stepped out and wanted to assume the wide stance the weakened bone just gave away.
I’m aware of the fact that that kind of weight should be handled with suit and wraps. But a matter of speculation would be, if the tight wraps din’t contribute to the situation by making his legs sensles so he could have felt that something was shaky and could have dropped the weight immediately before it came down on him.
Also the boots he wore weren’t the smartest choice. The rubber heel on that kind of boot is much less stable than OL shoes or Chuck’s (ballet slippers e.t.c.).
Two spotter for 800 lbs is not adequate.
At that weight one needs at least 5 spotters. The strongest behind him and two on each side supporting the plates.