73 Dollars an Hour

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
1

I hear a lot of people defending the UAW here in MI, most everyone out here works for one of the big three, or knows someone who does, so it isn’t surprising that many out here are biased.

But I do occasionally hear someone with some common sense arguing against paying a janitor 30 bucks an hour to sweep floors and take out the garbage, or 50 bucks an hour to tighten bolts on an assembly line.

Even though this article tries to prove the mythical “73 bucks an hour” line wrong, it still highlights one of the big three’s main problems. They are paying the union workers too much.

2

The union needs to go. They are a large part of the problem, they are killing these companies. This whole contract and set up was only designed to work if the companies can move 20 million units annually. Those are ridiculous expectations especially with so much viable competition. Most people don’t buy American cars anymore.

They need to redesign their business models accordingly. That means to union needs to straiten up, or go away. These juicy union contracts are a death sentence for both the company and the union. What’s the union going to do when there is no more car company? Who will they bitch to then?

3

[quote]pat wrote:
The union needs to go. [/quote]

The union can stay, it just needs to expect bankruptcy for it’s host company, or for the work to go overseas, or both.

My buddy manages longshoremen at the port of Los Angeles. He says a lot of them are getting paid $250k a year to drink vodka in a crane all day. No wonder they’re trying to build a huge deepwater port in Mexico to bring the goods through.

4

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
pat wrote:
The union needs to go.

The union can stay, it just needs to expect bankruptcy for it’s host company, or for the work to go overseas, or both.

My buddy manages longshoremen at the port of Los Angeles. He says a lot of them are getting paid $250k a year to drink vodka in a crane all day. No wonder they’re trying to build a huge deepwater port in Mexico to bring the goods through. [/quote]

It’s funny that you used the term “host” company - the unions have become a virus and will eventually kill the host.

5

[quote]GumsMagoo wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
pat wrote:
The union needs to go.

The union can stay, it just needs to expect bankruptcy for it’s host company, or for the work to go overseas, or both.

My buddy manages longshoremen at the port of Los Angeles. He says a lot of them are getting paid $250k a year to drink vodka in a crane all day. No wonder they’re trying to build a huge deepwater port in Mexico to bring the goods through.

It’s funny that you used the term “host” company - the unions have become a virus and will eventually kill the host.[/quote]

LOL. It was deliberate.

6

The way they calculate that is take all the retiree?s benefits plus the wage and benefits of the present work force add them together and divide by the present work force Where as Honda does not have the retirees to figure in .

7

unions are a fucking joke. they perpetuate laziness and lack of responsibility. I feel bad for all the hard working people grouped in with the others.

I have worked in union environments and i’m amazed that companies can survive as long as the big three did with them.

Paying someone 30 bucks an hour to sweep the floor is out of control. but its not just the wages, it the inefficiencies in the company that kill it. paying someone 30 bucks as hour to sweep the floor is bad enough…let alone paying 3 guys 30 bucks an hour to do it and another guy 45 go watch.

8

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
pat wrote:
The union needs to go.

The union can stay, it just needs to expect bankruptcy for it’s host company, or for the work to go overseas, or both.

My buddy manages longshoremen at the port of Los Angeles. He says a lot of them are getting paid $250k a year to drink vodka in a crane all day. No wonder they’re trying to build a huge deepwater port in Mexico to bring the goods through. [/quote]

In Australia in the late 90’s, we had a situation where the maritime union had way too much power, which led to similar ridiculousness.

Eventually, the owner of a major shipping company who was sick of being fucked around by the union decided to secretly train up an entire non-unionized workforce in Dubai.

He then brought those workers back to Aus and sacked his entire workforce of 1400 overnight. He had to bring in security guards with attack dogs in order to remove the workers from the site without letting them vandalize the equipment.

The result was that the crane rate doubled, and productivity per worker increased to four times what it was with the union workers.

Problem solved.

9

[quote]baretta wrote:
unions are a fucking joke. they perpetuate laziness and lack of responsibility. I feel bad for all the hard working people grouped in with the others.

I have worked in union environments and i’m amazed that companies can survive as long as the big three did with them.

Paying someone 30 bucks an hour to sweep the floor is out of control. but its not just the wages, it the inefficiencies in the company that kill it. paying someone 30 bucks as hour to sweep the floor is bad enough…let alone paying 3 guys 30 bucks an hour to do it and another guy 45 go watch.[/quote]

I think building cars that no one wants to drive is what is killing the big 3, along with banks being tight fisted with auto lones
I agree the Unions have a lot of inefficiencies. I think the Union is going to have to change a little. I also think management is going to have to change a little. There is nothing wrong with paying the guy that sweeps the floor a livable wage. I bet the guy sweeping the floor is making closer to $15 an hour

10

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
pat wrote:
The union needs to go.

The union can stay, it just needs to expect bankruptcy for it’s host company, or for the work to go overseas, or both.

My buddy manages longshoremen at the port of Los Angeles. He says a lot of them are getting paid $250k a year to drink vodka in a crane all day. No wonder they’re trying to build a huge deepwater port in Mexico to bring the goods through. [/quote]

I was a crane operater for many years , The best money in is High rise Construction

11

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I bet the guy sweeping the floor is making closer to $15 an hour
[/quote]

No, he’s probably really making $30 or so an hour. I know at UPS they make around that much.

12

Comparisons of the big three to the foreign transplants down south are leaving out a lot of relevant information. I know that Journalism doesn’t get the brightest people but some of the news reporters who are being so critical are retarded.

One thing that the foreign companies have going for them is in their home countries they get a lot of financial support from their governments that the big three don’t recieve. In countries with national healthcare they don’t have the healthcare expenses. Pension and retirement expenses are less too because the goverments pick up more of that. Unemployment expenses are different too with some countries having lavish welfare states.

What it all adds up to is the big three have to compete against companies that recieve government subsidies that the US government doesn’t give.

It is retarded to compare wages at an automobile assembly plant to an automobile manufacturing plant because they are not exactly the same type of operation. Assembly is just putting together parts which are manufactured all around the world.

The manufacturing jobs (ie machining) can require a much higher level of skill to perfom them than the assembly jobs. That higher skill level commands a higher wage.

The Japanese are not stupid, they are communal and they look out for their own. When they farm out work to other countries it’s all the lower paying grunt work. They keep the higher paying smart work at home. This is another reason why the Japanese operations down south don’t have $70 an hour jobs, because they keep as much of those jobs as they can in Japan.

Then there are laws in the US like antitrust laws that raise costs for the big three. ie Back in the 70’s when the government regulated catalytic converters and other emissions equipment the big three all had to do that independently of each other. So it was a massive duplicity of effort. In Japan the government brought all the automakers together in a joint research project that saved them a lot of money.

It is astounding just how ignorant many reporters and even lawmakers are of antitrust laws. Remember when the big three presidents flew to Washington on private jets and all the retards came out of the woodwork and asked why didn’t they jet pool? Because they can’t be in the same room together without the Federal Trade Commission being notified.

Thanks to Clinton signing us on to a bad trade deal based upon the lie that “there are a billion consumers in China”, automobile manufacturing is the last major consumer manufacturing industry this country has left. If the big three disappear all we will have left is Boeing and defense industries.

13

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
baretta wrote:
unions are a fucking joke. they perpetuate laziness and lack of responsibility. I feel bad for all the hard working people grouped in with the others.

I have worked in union environments and i’m amazed that companies can survive as long as the big three did with them.

Paying someone 30 bucks an hour to sweep the floor is out of control. but its not just the wages, it the inefficiencies in the company that kill it. paying someone 30 bucks as hour to sweep the floor is bad enough…let alone paying 3 guys 30 bucks an hour to do it and another guy 45 go watch.

I think building cars that no one wants to drive is what is killing the big 3, along with banks being tight fisted with auto lones
I agree the Unions have a lot of inefficiencies. I think the Union is going to have to change a little. I also think management is going to have to change a little. There is nothing wrong with paying the guy that sweeps the floor a livable wage. I bet the guy sweeping the floor is making closer to $15 an hour
[/quote]

Picture this:

Four guys sitting in lawn chairs at the end of an assembly line. When the car is finished, one guy gets up drives the car into the lot. when another car rolls off the assembly line, another guy does the same thing while the 3 others watch.

this is from a guy who worked in the plant.

also…there are guys dedicated to testing the seatbelt…apparently this can’t be done by the guy driving the car into the lot. his whole job is to click the seatbelt 5 times then get out.

14

[quote]baretta wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
baretta wrote:
unions are a fucking joke. they perpetuate laziness and lack of responsibility. I feel bad for all the hard working people grouped in with the others.

I have worked in union environments and i’m amazed that companies can survive as long as the big three did with them.

Paying someone 30 bucks an hour to sweep the floor is out of control. but its not just the wages, it the inefficiencies in the company that kill it. paying someone 30 bucks as hour to sweep the floor is bad enough…let alone paying 3 guys 30 bucks an hour to do it and another guy 45 go watch.

I think building cars that no one wants to drive is what is killing the big 3, along with banks being tight fisted with auto lones
I agree the Unions have a lot of inefficiencies. I think the Union is going to have to change a little. I also think management is going to have to change a little. There is nothing wrong with paying the guy that sweeps the floor a livable wage. I bet the guy sweeping the floor is making closer to $15 an hour

Picture this:

Four guys sitting in lawn chairs at the end of an assembly line. When the car is finished, one guy gets up drives the car into the lot. when another car rolls off the assembly line, another guy does the same thing while the 3 others watch.

this is from a guy who worked in the plant.

also…there are guys dedicated to testing the seatbelt…apparently this can’t be done by the guy driving the car into the lot. his whole job is to click the seatbelt 5 times then get out.[/quote]

What is your point? Other than you don’t have a clue perhaps. If those assembly lines are not running they are not making money. The last thing they need is a buildup at the end of the line because they can’t get the cars pulled out fast enough and have to shut the assembly line down.

When those cars come off the assembly line they are supposed to be a finished product. The runners shouldn’t have to be fucking around with seat belts as they are trying to get a car out to the storage lot. They need to be concentrating on what they are doing so they don’t wreck a new car.

15

[quote]Sifu wrote:
baretta wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
baretta wrote:
unions are a fucking joke. they perpetuate laziness and lack of responsibility. I feel bad for all the hard working people grouped in with the others.

I have worked in union environments and i’m amazed that companies can survive as long as the big three did with them.

Paying someone 30 bucks an hour to sweep the floor is out of control. but its not just the wages, it the inefficiencies in the company that kill it. paying someone 30 bucks as hour to sweep the floor is bad enough…let alone paying 3 guys 30 bucks an hour to do it and another guy 45 go watch.

I think building cars that no one wants to drive is what is killing the big 3, along with banks being tight fisted with auto lones
I agree the Unions have a lot of inefficiencies. I think the Union is going to have to change a little. I also think management is going to have to change a little. There is nothing wrong with paying the guy that sweeps the floor a livable wage. I bet the guy sweeping the floor is making closer to $15 an hour

Picture this:

Four guys sitting in lawn chairs at the end of an assembly line. When the car is finished, one guy gets up drives the car into the lot. when another car rolls off the assembly line, another guy does the same thing while the 3 others watch.

this is from a guy who worked in the plant.

also…there are guys dedicated to testing the seatbelt…apparently this can’t be done by the guy driving the car into the lot. his whole job is to click the seatbelt 5 times then get out.

What is your point? Other than you don’t have a clue perhaps. If those assembly lines are not running they are not making money. The last thing they need is a buildup at the end of the line because they can’t get the cars pulled out fast enough and have to shut the assembly line down.

When those cars come off the assembly line they are supposed to be a finished product. The runners shouldn’t have to be fucking around with seat belts as they are trying to get a car out to the storage lot. They need to be concentrating on what they are doing so they don’t wreck a new car. [/quote]

I dont have a clue because i am pointing out the inefficiencies that are present in union situations? please explain why i dont have a clue.

it has nothing to do with holding up the line, it has to do with 5 guys doing the job of two. cars come off at a predetermined schedule, not random times.

assembly lines are also not making money if you pay 50 fat lazy assholes with a superior sense of entitlement to do the job that 25 can do effectively…or 10 asian workers.

if 2 cars sell for relatively the same price, but it costs company A $5000 more to make the car, where do you think that money comes from. It comes from engineering, it comes from materials. It produces a shittier product.

16

Have you ever been in a car factory and seen how quickly those cars come off of the assembly line? Or have you seen how massive the storage lots for the finished cars are?

Did you ever consider that moving cars off of the asssembly line and to the storage yard is a part of the operation that has to be over staffed so it can be done in an orderly fashion without people rushing and making stupid mistakes.

It is inefficient to have 50 people doing the job of 10. But trying to get 10 people to do a job that requires 50 is asking for problems with quality and people will start getting injured.

17

GREED, it’s the bottom line. Gimme, gimme, I need more & more & more, I don’t have enough I need MORE & MORE & MORE. Gimme some of your’s!

18

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I think building cars that no one wants to drive is what is killing the big 3, along with banks being tight fisted with auto lones
[/quote]

How do you figure? Who is selling more cars than GM?

YTD as of nov.

Toyota - 2.1m
Honda - 1.3m
Nissan - 1m
Mazda - .3m
Ford - 1.8m
Hyundia - .4m
Chrysler - 1.6m
GM - 2.7m

19

[quote]streamline wrote:
GREED, it’s the bottom line. Gimme, gimme, I need more & more & more, I don’t have enough I need MORE & MORE & MORE. Gimme some of your’s![/quote]

black flag?

20

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
streamline wrote:
GREED, it’s the bottom line. Gimme, gimme, I need more & more & more, I don’t have enough I need MORE & MORE & MORE. Gimme some of your’s!

black flag?[/quote]

Only in my dreams.