5 x 5

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

I’m still fairly new to the science of weightlifting and am still trying to purge myself of 3x10 mentality. I’m looking primarily for functional strength gains and have read that 5x5’s are good for this.

So after a few warm-ups, I up’d my weight I was doing on the squat by 40 lbs (20% increased what I was doing with 3x10). The first 3 sets I can handle all 5 reps, but by the last 2 I can only do 4 with good form.

Is it better to drop the weight a little to complete the 5 reps or should I stick with the last 2 sets of 4 and just tag on another set of 2 reps at the end?

BTW, how long should one rest when training with this intensity? I was resting between 60-90 sec between sets. Is this too much, too little, or about right? I got the feeling while doing doing it that if I’d rested longer I could had gotten the full 5x5 but I didn’t want to rest too long if it would minimize the results.

2

[quote]Wombat wrote:
I’m still fairly new to the science of weightlifting and am still trying to purge myself of 3x10 mentality. I’m looking primarily for functional strength gains and have read that 5x5’s are good for this.

So after a few warm-ups, I up’d my weight I was doing on the squat by 40 lbs (20% increased what I was doing with 3x10). The first 3 sets I can handle all 5 reps, but by the last 2 I can only do 4 with good form.

Is it better to drop the weight a little to complete the 5 reps or should I stick with the last 2 sets of 4 and just tag on another set of 2 reps at the end? [/quote]

Good work switching to 5 x 5. Just keep the same weight. If you don’t get all 5 reps on all 5 sets, then that is a good weight. When you can complete all 5 reps on all 5 sets, it is time to go up in weight, even if it is only by 10 lbs. No need to tag on a set of 2 reps.

[quote]
BTW, how long should one rest when training with this intensity? I was resting between 60-90 sec between sets. Is this too much, too little, or about right? I got the feeling while doing doing it that if I’d rested longer I could had gotten the full 5x5 but I didn’t want to rest too long if it would minimize the results.[/quote]

I think your rest time is about right. Some people may disagree with me, but I’ve always been a big advocate of high-intensity/shorter than “comfortable” rest periods.

Good luck.

RIT Jared

3

Keep the weight the same for all five sets.If you can’t get at least 14 total reps among the 5 sets, the weight you selected was too high.Once you can get 5 reps for all 5 sets, increase the weight by 5%.Resist the temptation to do more than 5 reps in the earlier sets.Fatigue will set in and the last 2 or 3 sets will be difficult.Rest periods should be 90 secs to 120 secs.However, this is only a guide. One thing you could do is pair agonists and antagonists together and cut down the rest time between sets. For example, do a set of bench presses, rest 60 secs, then do a set of bent over barbell rows, rest 60 secs and repeat. I recommend this approach. This cuts down training time and ensures balanced development. The 5X5 system is considered a “strength” type of program, but I have gotten tremendous size gains from it. It is really a cool way to train. Good luck.

4

I think that it may be a good idea to drop the weight a little (initially at least), get your 5 reps for 5 sets and build from there. Increase the weight each week, after a couple of weeks it will probably be the case where you get something like 5, 5, 4, 4, 3 reps, but thats fine. Don’t go to failure on any of the sets. Stay on that weight until you get the 5x5. The last rep should be very difficult but not impossible.

Make sure you are getting plenty rest between sets. I wouldn’t do 5x5 on every exercise. If you are training 4 days a week, then you could use 5x5 on your bench press on bench day, squat on squat day and deadlift on deadlift day, and dont bother with it at all on the fourth day. The rest of your workouts could focus on more on some higher rep sets.
eg Bench day
Bench Press 5x5 (rest 2-3 minutes)
Assistance exercises
Barbell row 3x6 (rest 2-3 minutes)
Incline bench 3x8 (rest 1-2 minutes)
Pullup 3x10 (rest 1-2 minutes)
Dumbell shoulder press 3x8 (rest 1-2 minutes) (rest 1-2 minutes)

Be careful to take sufficent rest between sets on the 5x5 exercise. If you take very short rest periods, then of course your reps will drop.

Since you are not used to lower reps then you should be fine for a few weeks on the 5x5 before progress slows.

Poliquins 5% solution is a nice progression and well worth a try. For example take bench day again.

Week 1: Bench press 5x6 100kg (pick a weight that you can get all 5 sets of 6 reps i.e leave room for progression)
So you get 6,6,6,6,6
Week 2: Bench Press (add 5% to the weight) 105kg (drop reps by 1) 5x5
Tricep extensions 2x8
Week 3 : Add 5% 110kg 5x4
Week 4: Jump up the reps. Take a rest from the heavier weights and do a more bodybuilding type routine
Week 5: Use the weight from week 2 with the reps from week 1 (you moght get 6,6,6,6,5)
Week 6: Use the weight from week 3 with the reps from week 2 (You might get 5,5,5,4,4)
Week 7: 115kg 5x4
Week 8: Bodybuilding

Depending on how things are going you may want to try 1 more cycle, but remeber your body is gettin more used to this type of training, so gains will be slower (maybe only up the weight by 2.5 % each week)

Use different assistance exercises (or slightly different set and rep schemes in each 3 week block)

Hope this helps,
Pat

5

Hey Wombat, check out the “Reps You’ve Never Tried” article from a few days ago.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do;jsessionid=E7AF3FE8716EC01401046957F8CD9DD9.ba13?article=04-037-training

They explain 2 ways of doing 5x5:

“In the first, 5 x 5 is your goal, but you won’t get those rep number every set, at least not right away…you start out using a heavy weight and lower the reps as needed throughout the five sets…In the second 5 x 5 variation, you get all five reps every set. You do this by either a) lowering the poundage on the last few of sets, or b) by starting out with a lighter weight.”

I love 5x5, and I usually stick to the classic method. Since it’s good to switch up you rep scheme once in a while, though, I’ve started adding more of the second method and lowering the weight on the bar to get all 5 on the last couple of sets. With regard to rest I agree with Jared- I like to keep it shorter and keep the intensity up throughout my entire workout.

6

Jared - I agree that keeping rest periods short has lots of benefits. I’ve been thinking about, but haven’t tried, an EDT-type version of 5x5 where your goal is to get 25 total reps in 15 minutes. How you get there is up to you, but you need to get 'em all done in 15 minutes. CT wrote about this type of training in his last Mutation article where he took 80%-90% of his 1RM and tried to get 8-10 sets of 2-4 reps in 15 minutes. I think this accomplishes the same goal as 5x5 but is mentally easier since you’re not forced to get 5 reps every set. Personally, I like to “front load” my sets, meaning that if I can get 6 reps on the first set, I’ll go for 6, then reduce the reps as needed, even if that means I’m only doing 1 rep at the end. If the total volume works out to be the same, I think that’s all that matters. If someone disagrees, please share your comments.

7

Mike-

I sometimes do a similar routine, but with less time. Take an 8RM close grip bench weight, and do a set with 60 sec rest period from the time you rack the bar till the time you unrack it for the next set. I usually go 'till I fail on a triple.

Jared

8

Don’t be to quick to throw away the 3 sets of 10! It works! Just as the 5x5 program will work.

The key is to change it up every 6 to 8 weeks.

9

Thanks for all of the advice. This was exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I didn’t realize that the 5x5 should only be done with one exercise per session, that will help a lot and keep me from overtraining. For the next couple weeks, I’m mostly trying to get a feel of these alternate reps/sets routines then get into the pendulum method with the greatest focus of functional strength. It seems to have a lot of built in variety and appears very balanced in approach.

10

I would recommend 5 x 5 on most exercises, not just one. That’s the beauty of a 5 x 5 program.

I.e.

A1. 5 x 5 Squats
B1. 5 x 5 Good morning
C1. 5 x 5 Front squat

Keep your sets to no more than 15 per workout to start off. So you might do something like:

A1. 5 x 5 Squats
B1. 4 x 5 Stiff legged Deadlift
C1. 3 x 8 Hack squat
D1. 3 x 10 Leg curl

When you’ve trained a bit, you’ll start to notice which muscle groups respond best to which kind of training and you’ll be able to adjust sets/reps accordingly.

KEEP YOUR INTENSITY HIGH. I almost would recommend a 4 x 5 program over a 5 x 5 program. At least for me, I find that I can keep my intensity higher that way, and get out before I’m doing “junk work.”

RIT Jared