One more for you:
If I am reading that correctly (just did a quick scan) TT for 64 year old decreased 16% to 444 from 529. Median TT for 45-71 year olds in 1987-1989 was 501 with interquartile range of 392-614. I donât dispute TT levels are dropping. Per this study median TT for a guy in his mid 40âs 30+ years ago was probably mid 500âs assuming the younger men had higher TT than the 71 year olds. How does this show ânormalâ TT ranges for a 50 year old should be 1100+? Not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to learn based on factual data. I AGREE 100% TT ranges have dropped. I still havenât seen any data presented anywhere that older men, 40+ were routinely walking around with TT 1000+ 20, 30 or 50 years ago. The 1% outliers maybe.
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Something you have done the entire way through and instead started talking about spelling.
Itâs pretty clear from your reference that your dose is absurdly high.
I have several questions up above that you have avoided. I donât see the point in communicating as I ask questions and instead of getting answers you make claims of high doses and abuse.
You havenât answered any questions, really.
Question 1) And androgen resistance is what⊠A myth? You mean that the entire population simply needs to be anywhere in the normal range and they SHOULD be fine⊠Correct?
Question 2) Youâre a mechanical engineer, right? Youâre logical, right?
My labs from 6 years ago showed high end of normal as 1100 ng/dL. On a dose of 250mg a week, my total T was 1068 so I was in the normal range. Is this ok with you? If this is ok with you, what happens now that the ranges have been lowered to mid 700s? This means I wasnât abusing testosterone 6 years ago, but I am now? Even though I havenât changed anything? Please explain this to me like Iâm 4.
Question 3) Lab ranges have been on the steady decline. This is the whole point. My labs showed 1100 as high range 6 years ago. In the early 2000âs they were 1596. They are now mid 700s to mid 800s depending on which lab you use. My question is, if I wasnât âabusingâ testosterone back then, because I was in your precious ânormal rangeâ, how am I suddenly a drug abuser now if I havenât changed anything?
Question 4) If youâre at 750 ng/dL, and they decide to drop the ranges yet again to high end being 700, can I call YOU a drug abuser at that point? Or will you lower your dose because the number makes you uncomfortable? Will you continue to lower your dose every time some idiot decides itâs time to lower the ranges again?
You have not answered any of these. Either you refuse to answer as you realize your answer will make you look silly or you donât have the answer.
Dose is relevant? Explain. I take 250mg and my total is 1068. My friend takes 100mg and his total is 1200. So Iâm the bad one because my dose is higher even though his serum levels are higher than mine?
But youâre an engineer, right? Somehow I doubt this very, very much. I think the only engineer you are is a child who plays with his toy trains at his parentâs house screaming CHOO CHOO!
Iâve addressed every single question you have asked above. You have addressed none.
@dbossa lions donât concern themselves with the opinions of sheep. Let the sheep sheep. No one listens to them anyway.
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Itâs not even for me. I couldnât give a rats ass what he thinks. Itâs for the newbies in here trying to learn. I loathe misinformation. People come in and make these ridiculous statements and canât back up a damn thing other than accusing everyone of being drug addicts. Imagine the guys who are dialed in, read that, and lower their dose to be ânormalâ, with all symptoms returning. Guys that deal with numbers as the be all, end all, need to be called out. Same with drug abuse accusers. Same with dose too high accusers. Call them out for the ignorant fools that they are while the rest of us do everything in our power to optimize our health.
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Iâve answered this
Iâve answered this
Your dose is to high, read the links you provided
A 50 year old has no justification for the levels you have
Do you understand what mean values are? Thatâs what was in that chart. Mean values. Google what that means Mr. Engineer. Youâve been avoiding all the questions since the beginning and still havenât addressed androgen resistance which is the PRIMARY issue occurring with men today seeking help with TRT making serum levels IRRELEVANT.
Youâve replied to nothing. Youâve demonstrated yourself to be a troll. Congratulations.
Iâm done. Youâre a waste of time. Good luck.
I have and feel free to go back and reply to mine, rather than talk about spelling when you canât answer.
Newbies coming here dont just need to read the viewpoint of hypochondriacs, abusers and failed musicians.
Every time I open the phones browser there are 20 more replies and it is getting shittier 
Who is the musician?
Are you saying mean values and the interquartile ranges are irrelevant? Again⊠not being argumentative. Just trying to learn. BTW⊠I am also an engineer, who isnât, haha. FWIW it doesnât mean anything. As we have all seen there are doctors that donât have a clue when it comes to TRT. For the most part I agree with what you are saying. My only issue is you are using the outliers, top 1% of individuals who are most likely 25 years old to make your argument. The study you actually provided put the mean (not average but usually close) in the 500âs (using my extrapolating techniques I learned as an engineer) for a 45 year old. That is 30+ years ago. Saying it is ânormalâ to be at double that ânormalâ rate doesnât make sense to me logically. Again⊠I am purely dealing with the statistics. No emotion involved.
You also have to take into an aging population with the ranges. The study you posted took age into account and compared apples to apples. The ranges take into account all individuals. In 1900 the average life expectancy of a male was 47, it is now 79. I am sure if you took levels back in 1900 the ranges would be much higher.
BTW⊠my TT has ranged anywhere from 1100 to 1350 so I am also above average but I acknowledge I am outside the range of what is considered ânormalâ especially when you take into account my age.
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Heâs stalking my Facebook. I started piano when I was 5. Played the Montreal Jazz Fest a few times so hardly failed lol! I stopped performing as I wanted to be an entrepreneur as all my musician friends were poor. Best decision I ever made. This guy does all this under complete anonymity so he can attack other peopleâs credentials from the safety of his computer. Itâs funny how nobody has ever told me such a thing in person. Really funny how that works.
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The primary thing weâre seeing arenât serum level related at all to be honest. The âbrosâ stick to this argument of having to be in the clinical range otherwise youâre a drug addict (face palm). Weâre seeing TONS of men, from all age groups, with the vast majority just looking to resolve symptoms and have no interest in âthe gainzâ that have normal to high normal serum values yet exhibit virtually every single symptom of low testosterone. Itâs androgen resistance due to our polluted bodies. Take a 62 year old man that I know who had to be brought up to a total T of a whopping 2200 ng/dL just to feel ANYTHING with his protocol and live some semblance of a normal life. What do we do with these men? Bring them down to ânormal rangesâ and watch their health fall apart? Everyone thinks that most patients are guys in their 20 looking for legal testosterone to build muscle. Itâs the furthest thing from the truth if you just ask any physician in that field. The vast majority of men are going there, recognizing there is an issue, and not even having a clue as to what TRT is. The physicians make the call, the patients improve and their health flourishes. I donât know why idiots continue to condemn people wanting to resolve symptoms and not wishing to resort to SSRIs or narcotics.
And, to answer your question, not saying they are irrelevant. Just want to ensure they realized these were not upper range values or anything. Regardless of specific numbers, you can clearly see the decline as time passes. They are also making an observation that dropping serum levels result in longer lifespan. Correlation does not prove causation. We are living longer due to the science of health and medicine, not due to lower testosterone levels, as it is easy as pie to demonstrate all the harm that testosterone deficiencies cause!
No they are not mean values in that chart. You are wrong again!
