[quote]PHGN wrote:
let’s the max that you base your % off is 285 (deadlift)
5/3/1 week would look like
215x5
240x3
270x1+
next cyckle your max is 295 (add 10 pounds to 285 previous max) then you recalculate your % for the next cycle
5/3/1 week would look like this
220x5
250x3
280x1+
you don’t add 10 pouds to each set, you add weight to the max you base your % on.
Hope this helps
[/quote]
HE IS RIGHT
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
You are wrong bro.
In the article I posted interviewing Jim Wendler himself, he says add the extra weight to your 1 RM CALCULATIONS…come on dude, this is clear as day in my quote. You can read the article. I’ll take that information as fact because it’s from Wendler himself, I don’t need the book unless I want advice on accessory work and shit.
Why would you increase weight less than 5 pounds per month. You add 5 pounds to you 1 RM and recalculate percentages and you get some fucked up decimal numbers and that wouldn’t make sense. Bumping up the weight 5 or 10 pounds depending on the lift per month is reasonable and makes total sense. [/quote]
HE IS WRONG
Idc I’ll outlift 95% of this site as a youth.
Just lift and get stronger.
Austin,
How exactly are you implementing 5/3/1 in your BB training? Just wondering, as I want to increase my lift-specific base strength even though my fundamental goal is size. I don’t see anything wrong with doing 5/3/1 but altering assistance work. Your overall thoughts on doing this and how you’ve done it?
Thanks,
Justin
I use 5/3/1 for my BB training. I like the structure of having a solid base program from which to work. I just finished my second de-load week. I used to cobble stuff together from the latest and greatest training article, and that worked OK for 40 years, but I like this better.
On squat day after the base 5/3/1 lifts, I add five sets of squats, three back, two front, I add stiff legged dead lifts for posterior chain, calves, and lunges w/weight.
Bench day, i do the lifts, add three more sets of bench, three of incline, a bunch of dips, triceps push downs.
Dead lifts, do the lifts, add some sets to ten reps, lats, DB rows or seated rows, done.
Military, do the lifts, add five more sets, shrugs, lateral raises, done.
Works great, i am loving it, and according to the mirror and the local trainer, I am getting good results. thanks Wendler.
I’m going to sit down in a few minutes add weight to my 1RM numbers, do my calculations for the week,i can’t wait. (I bought the book)
[quote]jrl41090 wrote:
Austin,
How exactly are you implementing 5/3/1 in your BB training? Just wondering, as I want to increase my lift-specific base strength even though my fundamental goal is size. I don’t see anything wrong with doing 5/3/1 but altering assistance work. Your overall thoughts on doing this and how you’ve done it?
Thanks,
Justin[/quote]
if yall have these many question, maybe spending the 20$ to get the book would be a good idea. This is not complicated.
This is how I have 531 setup.
Bench using 5/3/1 protocol
incline bench 3-4 sets 6-8 reps
dead skulls 3 sets of 10
pushdowns or some other tricep finisher as many sets as i want to failure.
Squat using 5/3/1 protocol
front squat 3 sets of 8-10 reps
DB RDL’s 3-4 sets of 8-10
Calf Raises 4 sets of 15-20
abs as many sets as it takes to get to 100 reps
Military Press 5/3/1 protocol
seated behind the neck press 3-4 sets 6-8 reps
front raise 3-4 sets 10-15 reps
side laterals 3-4 sets 10-15 reps
Deadlift 5/3/1 protocol
rack chins 3-4 sets 8-12 reps
bb rows or tbar rows 3 sets of 8-10
bb curls 4 sets 8-10
concentration curls, alt curls, hammer curls, whatever curl variation you want 3-4 sets 8-12 reps
Not only do I hit rep pr’s for my 531 lifts I’am also hitting PR’s on my accessory lifts. Thats the name of the game, going to the gym and lifting more weight or doing more reps then the last time you were in there.
[quote]jrl41090 wrote:
Austin,
How exactly are you implementing 5/3/1 in your BB training? Just wondering, as I want to increase my lift-specific base strength even though my fundamental goal is size. I don’t see anything wrong with doing 5/3/1 but altering assistance work. Your overall thoughts on doing this and how you’ve done it?
Thanks,
Justin[/quote]
Yeah dude, I will shoot you a PM when I’m out of work.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
[quote]jrl41090 wrote:
Austin,
How exactly are you implementing 5/3/1 in your BB training? Just wondering, as I want to increase my lift-specific base strength even though my fundamental goal is size. I don’t see anything wrong with doing 5/3/1 but altering assistance work. Your overall thoughts on doing this and how you’ve done it?
Thanks,
Justin[/quote]
Yeah dude, I will shoot you a PM when I’m out of work. [/quote]
I’d be interested to hear what you’re doing too, just out of curiosity
[quote]xb-C wrote:
[quote]jrl41090 wrote:
Austin,
How exactly are you implementing 5/3/1 in your BB training? Just wondering, as I want to increase my lift-specific base strength even though my fundamental goal is size. I don’t see anything wrong with doing 5/3/1 but altering assistance work. Your overall thoughts on doing this and how you’ve done it?
Thanks,
Justin[/quote]
if yall have these many question, maybe spending the 20$ to get the book would be a good idea. This is not complicated.
This is how I have 531 setup.
Bench using 5/3/1 protocol
incline bench 3-4 sets 6-8 reps
dead skulls 3 sets of 10
pushdowns or some other tricep finisher as many sets as i want to failure.
Squat using 5/3/1 protocol
front squat 3 sets of 8-10 reps
DB RDL’s 3-4 sets of 8-10
Calf Raises 4 sets of 15-20
abs as many sets as it takes to get to 100 reps
Military Press 5/3/1 protocol
seated behind the neck press 3-4 sets 6-8 reps
front raise 3-4 sets 10-15 reps
side laterals 3-4 sets 10-15 reps
Deadlift 5/3/1 protocol
rack chins 3-4 sets 8-12 reps
bb rows or tbar rows 3 sets of 8-10
bb curls 4 sets 8-10
concentration curls, alt curls, hammer curls, whatever curl variation you want 3-4 sets 8-12 reps
Not only do I hit rep pr’s for my 531 lifts I’am also hitting PR’s on my accessory lifts. Thats the name of the game, going to the gym and lifting more weight or doing more reps then the last time you were in there.
[/quote]
Thanks for the reply. I obviously have similar ideas on how to structure a routine, and do actually own the book; I just wanted to see how Austin structured his routine because he has quite obviously been successful at implementing it and he and I have similar goals.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
[quote]jrl41090 wrote:
Austin,
How exactly are you implementing 5/3/1 in your BB training? Just wondering, as I want to increase my lift-specific base strength even though my fundamental goal is size. I don’t see anything wrong with doing 5/3/1 but altering assistance work. Your overall thoughts on doing this and how you’ve done it?
Thanks,
Justin[/quote]
Yeah dude, I will shoot you a PM when I’m out of work. [/quote]
Thanks man I look forward to hearing from ya, as my training is going really well right now but I know for a fact I will benefit greatly from finding a way to implement 5/3/1 into my program.
Austin, and xb-c do you guys feel like it gives you enough frequency? Do you get good growth from it?
Anyways from the couple of PMs I’ve received and questions in this thread, I’ll just share my thoughts here. I’ve been at a training seminar for work from 8 am this morning and I came home at 6 pm so bear with me. I might have to revise this because I am not in the most typity mood, and I’m kind of tired as well as getting ready to train…
I’ll start by saying I only use the 5/3/1 percentages on certain lifts, I do NOT use the 5/3/1 programs themselves…
I also train on a traditional bodybuilders split. I train each muscle once per week currently split as follows:
Sunday: Biceps
Mondays: Quads
Tuesdays: OFF
Wednesdays: Chest and Triceps
Thursdays: OFF
Fridays: Back
Saturdays: Shoulders
I do double sessions every week. I do one on leg days, quads in the afternoon, hamstrings and calves in the later evening. On chest day, I complete chest in the afternoon, triceps in the evening. I also train back thickness exercises in the afternoon and hit width in the evening. I enjoy this style of training as I am always fresh.
I have one goal in mind on every exercise no matter what rep scheme I’m lifting in and that is to hit one top set with my intensity at its max leaving no gas in the tank. That goes for 5/3/1 lifts as well as all my other lifts. I do, do “pump” exercises, but that is only a side effect of doing a higher rep set to failure.
Currently I am only doing 5/3/1 training on flat bench, as well as my squats, but I have done it with militaries and deadlifts as well, although I’ve been experimenting and getting better results on those exercises doing other things…
A typical chest day is going to be flat bench. I will flat bench and follow the 5/3/1 protocol each week, the 3 work sets, the progressively heavier weights each consecutive week until I either deload, or jump right into another cycle, starting down lower but heavier than 3 weeks ago on week 1, but you guys already know the 5/3/1 cycle…
I’ll then move onto inclines with a top set always ending at 5-6 reps ramped. I usually hit whatever I can hit for 5-6 at failure, than drop down to 225 and crank out as many reps as possible.
Next is weighted dips. On weighted dips, I work up to a set of 8 reps to failure. After weighted dips is incline flys going for 12-15 reps to failure.
There is nothing magical in this, and 5/3/1 is basically what Ronnie Coleman does except he skips the math, He hits 315 x 12, 405 x 8, and then 495 x 5 or whatever. It’s all ramping and all about that last set. If you are getting stronger, every few weeks and gaining weight or at least noticing results in the mirror you’re doing it right. I say every few weeks because you are a fool if you think you can increase the weight on the bar by 5 pounds every week for years. That will set you up for discouragement. 5 pounds x 52 weeks, is 260 pounds added to an exercise in a year. Even a total noob would have trouble bringing there bench from say 90 pounds to 350 in a year. It’s highly unlikely. I used to be obsessed with that shit, and would get so down on myself if I couldn’t increase weight. If someone said I could increase my lifts by 5 pounds every month for the rest of my career, which would still be crazy, I’d gladly take it. 60 pounds to my bench per year and in 2 years I’m benching mid to low 5’s. That’d be ridiculous, and I’d love it.
I can’t really point out too many differences in powerlifting and bodybuilding workouts. Maybe a bodybuilder will hit concentration curls and a powerlifter board presses but honestly the goal is to get stronger and when doing so, whilst eating, you will gain muscle.
As far as frequency, if you are a weak bastard you should train more frequently, your body doesn’t endure the stress of someone stronger and you can get away with more, train everything twice a week. It also depends on the volume of your workouts, if your doing really low volume you can get away with more too. Once per week is perfect for me, I am puting pounds and pounds on to my lifts each month. Muscles that were “shit” are now looking pretty sweet and although I personally have a lot more work to do, I am getting results.
I can’t think of anything else to say. If you want to know anything please ask a very specific question because a lot of times I view things as common sense and don’t say them when someone might need to be told something. IDK, hope it helped somewhat. Again, there is no magic to this.
Thanks for the post Austin. So essentially you’re only doing about 5 total work sets for chest each week correct? So you only work everything once per week, is this what you’ve always done? It’s interesting that you pointed out that frequency can be increased to twice per week when weaker.
Also, where do you train? I imagine it would have to be at your house otherwise you’d be making 7 trips to the gym each week (which by itself I guess wouldn’t be ridiculous but the twice per day could become a potential problem I guess).
You’re cutting now right? Or were anyway…
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Thanks for the post Austin. So essentially you’re only doing about 5 total work sets for chest each week correct? So you only work everything once per week, is this what you’ve always done? It’s interesting that you pointed out that frequency can be increased to twice per week when weaker.
Also, where do you train? I imagine it would have to be at your house otherwise you’d be making 7 trips to the gym each week (which by itself I guess wouldn’t be ridiculous but the twice per day could become a potential problem I guess).
You’re cutting now right? Or were anyway… [/quote]
Well depends how you look at it. I have 4 top sets to failure, so 4 work sets for chest, but I don’t bull shit my warm ups either, they are intense and I’m sure they help me grow, but the 4 top sets are the only ones I worry about and judge my progress by.
When I was young I hit each muscle twice per week. I couldn’t fathom training only once per week, I thought it was too little, but once I reached a certain point, I was plateauing a lot…and I felt it was because I wasn’t recovering so I switched my split successfully.
I train at home otherwise it would be extremely difficult to get in double sessions with work and school. However, I swear by these. I love the progress and giving each muscle my all, all of the time.
I am eating clean for the time being. Whether I gain muscle from that or lose fat, or both that’s what I am doing. 95% of my intake is healthy proteins, fats and carbs. I want to say I’ve lost about 15-20 pounds of fat and ultimately feel my biggest and I am my biggest. I’m getting strong and I’ve gained some considerable size especially in my delts.
I will be doing FMC starting within the next few weeks. There is snow all over the ground and I am waiting to do some sled dragging and bike riding in the near future when it’s a little warmer.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Well depends how you look at it. I have 4 top sets to failure, so 4 work sets for chest, but I don’t bull shit my warm ups either, they are intense and I’m sure they help me grow, but the 4 top sets are the only ones I worry about and judge my progress by.
When I was young I hit each muscle twice per week. I couldn’t fathom training only once per week, I thought it was too little, but once I reached a certain point, I was plateauing a lot…and I felt it was because I wasn’t recovering so I switched my split successfully.
I train at home otherwise it would be extremely difficult to get in double sessions with work and school. However, I swear by these. I love the progress and giving each muscle my all, all of the time.
I am eating clean for the time being. Whether I gain muscle from that or lose fat, or both that’s what I am doing. 95% of my intake is healthy proteins, fats and carbs. I want to say I’ve lost about 15-20 pounds of fat and ultimately feel my biggest and I am my biggest. I’m getting strong and I’ve gained some considerable size especially in my delts.
I will be doing FMC starting within the next few weeks. There is snow all over the ground and I am waiting to do some sled dragging and bike riding in the near future when it’s a little warmer.
[/quote]
Sounds good. Just out of curiosity, how intense would you say your ramping sets are compared to your max set? For instance if your last set was a 10/10. I see some people who just do some really light work then jump into a max set and then others who keep adding weight but take their lighter sets near failure, which I’m sure hurts their strength for the heaviest set. I’m guessing your method is somewhere in between.
I like the idea of training 2x in one day to give more attention to certain muscles, but that’s really only something I could do when living at home over the summer. Do you have specific pre/post nutrition for both sessions? I would think each one couldn’t take more than 30min. or so max.
[quote]Liv92 wrote:
Austin, and xb-c do you guys feel like it gives you enough frequency? Do you get good growth from it?[/quote]
Growth is determined by one thing, and that is the amount of food you put in your mouth versus the amount of calories your burn. For some people with high metabolism like me, eating enough to sustain exceptional muscle growth isn’t the easiest thing in the world.
I feel the frequency is fine, my workouts usually take 45 minutes at the most and I hit PR’s every time I’m in the gym thats my goal now.
You need to find out what works for your goals and go from there.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Well depends how you look at it. I have 4 top sets to failure, so 4 work sets for chest, but I don’t bull shit my warm ups either, they are intense and I’m sure they help me grow, but the 4 top sets are the only ones I worry about and judge my progress by.
When I was young I hit each muscle twice per week. I couldn’t fathom training only once per week, I thought it was too little, but once I reached a certain point, I was plateauing a lot…and I felt it was because I wasn’t recovering so I switched my split successfully.
I train at home otherwise it would be extremely difficult to get in double sessions with work and school. However, I swear by these. I love the progress and giving each muscle my all, all of the time.
I am eating clean for the time being. Whether I gain muscle from that or lose fat, or both that’s what I am doing. 95% of my intake is healthy proteins, fats and carbs. I want to say I’ve lost about 15-20 pounds of fat and ultimately feel my biggest and I am my biggest. I’m getting strong and I’ve gained some considerable size especially in my delts.
I will be doing FMC starting within the next few weeks. There is snow all over the ground and I am waiting to do some sled dragging and bike riding in the near future when it’s a little warmer.
[/quote]
Sounds good. Just out of curiosity, how intense would you say your ramping sets are compared to your max set? For instance if your last set was a 10/10. I see some people who just do some really light work then jump into a max set and then others who keep adding weight but take their lighter sets near failure, which I’m sure hurts their strength for the heaviest set. I’m guessing your method is somewhere in between.
I like the idea of training 2x in one day to give more attention to certain muscles, but that’s really only something I could do when living at home over the summer. Do you have specific pre/post nutrition for both sessions? I would think each one couldn’t take more than 30min. or so max. [/quote]
Well it depends. I keep things relatively light when warming up. Say I’m curling and my top set is 185 x 5, the set before that is 135 x 4, but I’m still squeezing the shit out of my biceps on that 135. However, on 5/3/1 Wendler says all 3 sets are work sets. So it’s a combonation of weights meeting in middle ground.
As far as pre/post workout nutrition, I usually consume 75 grams whey before a workout and 75 grams after. If I ate some healthy foods before hand I might skip my pre workout shake.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Well it depends. I keep things relatively light when warming up. Say I’m curling and my top set is 185 x 5, the set before that is 135 x 4, but I’m still squeezing the shit out of my biceps on that 135. However, on 5/3/1 Wendler says all 3 sets are work sets. So it’s a combonation of weights meeting in middle ground.
As far as pre/post workout nutrition, I usually consume 75 grams whey before a workout and 75 grams after. If I ate some healthy foods before hand I might skip my pre workout shake.
[/quote]
OK, so really not too close to your work set.
So on a workout day with 2 sessions you may have up to 300 grams of protein total before and after the 2 workouts? Damn that’s a lot. Anything specific for carbs?
alright i’ve read tmuscle for the past year i just now joined. this is my first post so bare with me. i like the 5 3 1 i use it to get stronger cause im a firm believer in strength equals size. and it hasn’t failed me first time i used it a was able to get my bench past a plateau of almost a year. i like using the bbb version with some tweaks here and there to suit me.
Monday
Military 5 3 1
Military 5 x 10
Shoulder exercise of choice (somedays i dont even do this)
Tricep exercise of choice (either for strength or pump)
Tuesday
Deadlift 5 3 1
deadlift 5 x 10
back exercise for width (depends how im feeling)
back exercise for thickness (same as above)
Bicep exercise of choice
Thursday
Floor press 5 3 1(shoulder injury using max floor press to keep my bench strength up will i recover)
Bench press 5 x 10 (shoulder good on light exercise just mentioning so someone does hit me with my own words)
chest exercise of choice (usually for pump cause of the first two)
tricep exercise of choice
Friday
Squat 5 3 1
Squat 5 x 10
quad exercise for pump
hamstring exercise
bicep exercise
like i said its to get stronger and as i get stronger i get bigger.
stats for those who want them
19 years old
230 at 16% bf (im fat sue me im just trying to get as much muscle as possible so i eat alot)
bench before shoulder injury - 315 (floor press max tomorow if my shoulder allows it)
Deadlift - 455 just maxed out 2 days ago
Squat - 455 latest time i maxed maxing out today on it
Military press 205 has of yesterday (yes its horrible i know its my weakness and has it gets stronger so will my bench)
Shoulder injury only hurts on heavy bench press and heavy tricep extensions. yes i know your thinking tricep but if i do laterals before i bench or do extensions it does alot better from the blood flow still hurts like hell tho. just thought i’d mention that.
[quote]texas62 wrote:
im a firm believer in strength equals size.
[/quote]
I cringed when I read that.