[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
I read the discussion in the other thread, and there were two lines of advice:
1 - Focus on longer distances so you don’t get winded
2 - Focus on 200s and it’ll transfer over
Batman’s advice seems to be leaning more toward line 1… though I wouldn’t be focusing that much time on running, so as not to mess w/ my lifting (at this point in time, anyway).
[/quote]
Yea. kinda thought that was a little more involved than you were really looking for.
Just to be clear, I was suggesting a mix of speed (200’s or similar time/exertion)), tempo and distance, at least until you build up an aerobic base, serviceable running technique and adapt to the lactate produced at max effort, so you can in turn recover better put in more quality effort in your speed work. In the end you will need to train fast to get fast, so 200’s will be a good tool. It’s one of those things where sometimes you need to train before you can train, if you know what I mean
Of course if lifting is your main focus, I’m not sure how useful training for 400’s would really be for you. There are lots of articles on here geared toward guys who are more into lifting and use sprints as conditioning.
[quote]batman730 wrote:
Just to be clear, I was suggesting a mix of speed (200’s or similar time/exertion)), tempo and distance, at least until you build up an aerobic base, serviceable running technique and adapt to the lactate produced at max effort, so you can in turn recover better put in more quality effort in your speed work. In the end you will need to train fast to get fast, so 200’s will be a good tool. It’s one of those things where sometimes you need to train before you can train, if you know what I mean[/quote]
I also started with 400s and then moved to 200s to work on my speed and I realized I needed to “train before I train” by doing 60m sprints with a gradual start. I kept pulling my hamstring if I tried to do anything more than 90% sustained effort on the 200m (or 100m.) With the 60m, I can hit my top speed and hold it for a couple seconds. It allows me to work on my form and flexibility with less risk of injuring myself. Basically, I’m just getting used to running again and I’ll probably do this 3x a week for a month before I feel I’m ready to sprint longer distances. I knew I was doing too much too soon when I kept re-injuring my hamstring. Truth is I’m only at about 90% effort right now on the 60m, thinking more about form (hips high, don’t overstride, relax, etc,) but I will apply a little more effort with each session.
[quote]batman730 wrote:
Just to be clear, I was suggesting a mix of speed (200’s or similar time/exertion)), tempo and distance, at least until you build up an aerobic base, serviceable running technique and adapt to the lactate produced at max effort, so you can in turn recover better put in more quality effort in your speed work. In the end you will need to train fast to get fast, so 200’s will be a good tool. It’s one of those things where sometimes you need to train before you can train, if you know what I mean[/quote]
I also started with 400s and then moved to 200s to work on my speed and I realized I needed to “train before I train” by doing 60m sprints with a gradual start. I kept pulling my hamstring if I tried to do anything more than 90% sustained effort on the 200m (or 100m.) With the 60m, I can hit my top speed and hold it for a couple seconds. It allows me to work on my form and flexibility with less risk of injuring myself. Basically, I’m just getting used to running again and I’ll probably do this 3x a week for a month before I feel I’m ready to sprint longer distances. I knew I was doing too much too soon when I kept re-injuring my hamstring. Truth is I’m only at about 90% effort right now on the 60m, thinking more about form (hips high, don’t overstride, relax, etc,) but I will apply a little more effort with each session.[/quote]
You don’t need to run the shorter sprints at 100% either. If you do then you have to rest completely between sprints. That could mean 5 minutes or more. Keep in mind that no one, not even the best 400m runners on the planet, are running that distance at 100%. If they did then MJ’s record in the 400 would be under 40 seconds. So the idea that you need to run 200s at max effort to prepare and/or improve your 400 is incorrect and in fact, not even MJ would do multiple 200s at max effort when training for the 400. His initial 200 workouts would have him running at something closer to 75 or 80% (not 90 like you were doing). He could go sub 20 seconds in the 200 yet he would do multiple 200s for around 30 seconds initially.
So you can do 200s now but start out at a pace that you can handle for multiple bouts with minimal rest (2 minutes or lower). You can then lower the time and/or rest as you get into better shape. It’s much safer than doing shorter sprints at 90% or more. Think about it: you wouldn’t do squats 3x a week with a weight that was 90% of your max and not expect to burn out rather quickly. Why would you do close to max effort sprinting 3X a week?
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
You don’t need to run the shorter sprints at 100% either. If you do then you have to rest completely between sprints. That could mean 5 minutes or more. Keep in mind that no one, not even the best 400m runners on the planet, are running that distance at 100%. If they did then MJ’s record in the 400 would be under 40 seconds. So the idea that you need to run 200s at max effort to prepare and/or improve your 400 is incorrect and in fact, not even MJ would do multiple 200s at max effort when training for the 400. His initial 200 workouts would have him running at something closer to 75 or 80% (not 90 like you were doing). He could go sub 20 seconds in the 200 yet he would do multiple 200s for around 30 seconds initially.
So you can do 200s now but start out at a pace that you can handle for multiple bouts with minimal rest (2 minutes or lower). You can then lower the time and/or rest as you get into better shape. It’s much safer than doing shorter sprints at 90% or more. Think about it: you wouldn’t do squats 3x a week with a weight that was 90% of your max and not expect to burn out rather quickly. Why would you do close to max effort sprinting 3X a week? [/quote]
I shouldn’t have implied that the short sprints have been max effort- I don’t really know how to quantify effort in terms of percentages but I know I can go a little faster for 50m than I can for 200m without worrying about more hamstring trauma. I’d probably be better off on a more structured program but for now, I’ve just been stopping by the track mid jog and reacquainting myself with the feeling of my legs moving fast. (It’s also tough at the track in my neighborhood because it’s always incredibly crowded- multiple soccer practices in the midfield with balls flying everywhere, kids riding bikes on the track, etc.)
I’m not sure whether it’s my brain remembering how to coordinate my movements quicker, better form, improved flexibility, or the squatting and hip flexor work I’ve been doing- probably all of the above- but I’ve definitely seen a bit of improvement. I can now do a fast jog 200m in 32sec when that used to be more like 34 and if I take it up another notch- a sprint that’s slow enough to avoid hamstring pulls, I can now run the 200m in 30sec rather than 32. I’m hoping, I can soon do 200m intervals with 3-5 minutes rest in 28sec. If I can do that as well as build up my aerobic base, I may be somewhat close to cracking a 60sec 400m.
Not trying to turn this into a threadjack, but I finally hit the 200s @ 35s and I liked them a lot. They felt like a good balance between effort for speed and distance, without ever feeling like I might strain something. I only did 3 w/ 4.5 min. rest between before going on to light weights, and I really felt my hamstrings give way yo my hip flexors after the turn (like from my hams pulling me through the first 80m to my hips having to drive me through the rest). Now obviously 3 isn’t a lot, but I need to develop some sort of systematic way to work on this
I’m prepared to practice sprinting about once a week (my other conditioning for the week will be a 1-mile run before complexes… I should maybe do tempo stuff, but don’t really know where to start and I think this is enough new stuff for now).
I read up on a couple articles on here:
Which basically present two possible routines for now:
3x30 meters
3x40 meters
3x50 meters
With 2 min rest between each.
The latter part is programmed to be run every day, so that may need some adjustment for the weekly work by adding a 40m and a 200m in, but I notice my plans for track work are always a lot more ambitious than reality.