One other point worth mentioning too:
I think that being even in the Polls is actually “Advantage=Romney”.
I just have this “feeling” that the “Not Obama” vote is composed of people who will in fact get out and vote…and vote in record numbers.
TeaPublicans; Evangelicals; white males; conservative females…the list goes on and on for voting blocks who just want the President out.
Mufasa
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
One other point worth mentioning too:
I think that being even in the Polls is actually “Advantage=Romney”.
I just have this “feeling” that the “Not Obama” vote is composed of people who will in fact get out and vote…and vote in record numbers.
TeaPublicans; Evangelicals; white males; conservative females…the list goes on and on for voting blocks who just want the President out.
Mufasa[/quote]
There are some groups Romney has ticked off. Namely hispanics and blacks. Because of all the talk about abortion and contraception rights, I think there might be a lot of women who go out to vote against Romney too. It’ll be a matter of if they’re ticked off enough about Romney to go out and vote and that I’m not sure of.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:<<< One of the main reasons I call this whole race an “Obama”/“Not Obama” race is that it appears that while the Evangelical Right may hate Romney and all that he believes…they APPEAR to hate the President even more. (At least it appears that way). >>>[/quote]I do not hate Mitt Romney though I do hate his religion. However as discussed earlier, my dislike for him as a candidate has nothing to do with his Mormonism. I think he’s a coreless political hack. There is no possible way, no matter what he tries to say about his commitment to his religion that he could ever have been pro choice AND a faithful Mormon. As an example. He’s either a liar or knows nothing about his church that he expresses all this commitment to. Either way he’s a flake. [quote]Mufasa wrote:<<< I just don’t think that the President and his campaign will play that card. If they do, I think that it will truly be an act of desperation. [/quote] As I once again said before. They won’t have to. The media will do it for them. With giggling enthusiasm. If I were given 10 minutes to question him about the truly wacky theology of that church on national television? I could make Mickey Mouse look like a better candidate. I can’t believe the professional hack n slashers in the mslm are less capable than I am. They’ll start it up in the fall so it’s still fresh in people’s minds that Romney believes his god was once a man like you or I and lives on the planet Kolob which was reported to be rather near our own dear earth.
Or that he believes that an Egyptian document bought by Joseph Smith Junior and declared by him to be the writings of Abraham in Egypt before the hieroglyphics had been deciphered has since been found to be an obituary for a man named Hor. As part of their “Pearl of Great Price” it is still believed by him to be the book of Abraham. Or that he intends to become a God and that his wives can be resurrected only if HE calls them from the grave to bear all the children for his planet that he’s getting. (The women will love that one). I could go on. AND ON AND ON. I could make him look like a half witted screwball religious lunatic OR force him to denounce his religion in one interview. Truth is he doesn’t believe any of that or he would NEVER have been pro choice for one minute.
This is why I think Obama will lose and lose big.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Truth is he doesn’t believe any of that or he would NEVER have been pro choice for one minute.
[/quote]
He isn’t “hardcore” religious in action, but he gave the church 1.5m in 2010.
But look, I don’t see his religion as a major issue for people that haven’t made up their minds already. I mean shit, 5 years ago had you told me a black man would get elected in America, I would have laughed in your face.
I didn’t think America could get over the deep rooted racism that rots it from the core. But it did. (except if you disagree with Obama publicly, because someone will call you a racist for it. It is a small number of people that do it, but they are out there.)
When in fact race had nothing to do with him getting elected, and quite possibly will be his greatest achievement.
It is just sad, so so sad, that a man that is proof of the American Dream, proof that “yes you can”, refuses to support American ideals in his policy, but instead would rather we become Europe or some fantasy utopia where the guy handing out the mail is worth the same monetary value as the CEO.
But yeah, I don’t see his religion playing that big of a factor, but I could totally be wrong.
Another question:
How do you think this whole “class warfare” thing is going to play into this election, and will it still be alive by the next? (Because we know both candidates will continue to give their friends our money.) But does the “idea” or whatever you want to call it have enough traction to be a movement, with an actual voice and actual solutions that aren’t communism?
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
To me, this was the strongest portion of his Speech:
“If I am fortunate to become your President, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A president must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States”.
“There are some for whom these commitments are not enough. They would prefer it if I would simply distance myself from my religion, say that it is more a tradition than my personal conviction, or disavow one or another of its precepts. That I will not do. I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers - I will be true to them and to my beliefs”.
“Some believe that such a confession of my faith will sink my candidacy. If they are right, so be it. But I think they underestimate the American people. Americans do not respect believers of convenience”.
Mufasa[/quote]
Sometimes it makes me sad that I’ve lost all faith in politicians. When I was young, the conviction and passion in those words would have given me chills.
But now I know it is just a script to give people those chills, and well…
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Mufasa wrote:<<< One of the main reasons I call this whole race an “Obama”/“Not Obama” race is that it appears that while the Evangelical Right may hate Romney and all that he believes…they APPEAR to hate the President even more. (At least it appears that way). >>>[/quote]I do not hate Mitt Romney though I do hate his religion. However as discussed earlier, my dislike for him as a candidate has nothing to do with his Mormonism. I think he’s a coreless political hack. There is no possible way, no matter what he tries to say about his commitment to his religion that he could ever have been pro choice AND a faithful Mormon. As an example. He’s either a liar or knows nothing about his church that he expresses all this commitment to. Either way he’s a flake. [quote]Mufasa wrote:<<< I just don’t think that the President and his campaign will play that card. If they do, I think that it will truly be an act of desperation. [/quote] As I once again said before. They won’t have to. The media will do it for them. With giggling enthusiasm. If I were given 10 minutes to question him about the truly wacky theology of that church on national television? I could make Mickey Mouse look like a better candidate. I can’t believe the professional hack n slashers in the mslm are less capable than I am. They’ll start it up in the fall so it’s still fresh in people’s minds that Romney believes his god was once a man like you or I and lives on the planet Kolob which was reported to be rather near our own dear earth.
Or that he believes that an Egyptian document bought by Joseph Smith Junior and declared by him to be the writings of Abraham in Egypt before the hieroglyphics had been deciphered has since been found to be an obituary for a man named Hor. As part of their “Pearl of Great Price” it is still believed by him to be the book of Abraham. Or that he intends to become a God and that his wives can be resurrected only if HE calls them from the grave to bear all the children for his planet that he’s getting. (The women will love that one). I could go on. AND ON AND ON. I could make him look like a half witted screwball religious lunatic OR force him to denounce his religion in one interview. Truth is he doesn’t believe any of that or he would NEVER have been pro choice for one minute.
[/quote]
Tiribulus…you’ve made my point.
Thanks.
Mufasa
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
This is why I think Obama will lose and lose big.
You’ve in many ways supported my point too, jp.
This is “Anyone-but-Obama” stuff.
Nowhere in your list is “Great Enthusiasm for the eventual nominee, Mitt Romney”.
But many would say “A Win is a Win…” or again “Anyone but Obama…”
Mufasa
CB:
My thoughts are this.
America only gets weaker as the rich get richer; the poor get poorer (recent reports have more Americans in poverty than since the Great Depression); and a vibrant Middle Class shrinks even further.
Those are facts.
Neither side (Left nor Right) has ALL the answers to these problems…but if the DEMS and GOP don’t start working together to help solve them, instead of holding to their own deep-seated, non-compromising beliefs…we all lose.
Mufasa
I’m right there with you, CB.
My cynicism about Politics and Politicians has reached an all-time high.
I will be doing some SERIOUS “Soul Searching” after this election.
Mufasa
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
How do you think this whole “class warfare” thing is going to play into this election, and will it still be alive by the next? (Because we know both candidates will continue to give their friends our money.) But does the “idea” or whatever you want to call it have enough traction to be a movement, with an actual voice and actual solutions that aren’t communism?[/quote]
I don’t think it plays well. The broad electorate - not natural class warriors to begin with - are exhausted with it. Obama is turning up the juice on it to motivate his base to come out, not capture independents and moderates in the middle. I don’t think it is a movement that gains political traction, mostly because people know it’s the so-called “rich” who do the hiring, and people want to be hired, i.e., the number one issue in this election is “jobs” and the economy.
I do, however, think the candidate that wins the hearts and minds of the middle class takes the election - ironically, though, they don’t win it by constantly harping on the classes and class warfare.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
CB:
My thoughts are this.
America only gets weaker as the rich get richer; the poor get poorer (recent reports have more Americans in poverty than since the Great Depression); and a vibrant Middle Class shrinks even further.
Those are facts.
Neither side (Left nor Right) has ALL the answers to these problems…but if the DEMS and GOP don’t start working together to help solve them, instead of holding to their own deep-seated, non-compromising beliefs…we all lose.
Mufasa
[/quote]
I agree with the wealth gap being an issue, but I disagree with your proposed solution.
I think both parties need to get the hell out of the way of free market, and it will correct itself. Shit, it already tried to, and TARP ruined that. Think about it, had those banks been allowed to fail, a whole bunch of wealth would have fallen out of the 1% hands right? I would have prefered 2 “shovel ready” simulous packages to 1 TARP. At the very least, the government waste and bullshit bribes are going to build something, anything, and not just given to people who made awful choices so they don’t have to pay the consequences. Yes we all would have suffered, and maybe suffered greatly if the banks would have been allowed to fail, but we would have come out of it leaner and meaner than before.
Occupy are mad at the wrong people. It should have been occupy Penn Ave., not Wall St.
This also means the government needs to stop giving tax incentives to industries that don’t need it. Oil companies as well as shit like Welch’s. Incentives like DPAD (sec. 199), have more benefit to small business and need to be given greater power, even though that contradicts my above point of “stay out of free market.” It is just I live in the real world, and know some, minor intervention, can be good.
This is not an easy fix, but making someone like me, who works his ass off and makes sacrifice after sacrifice the enemy because I’m trying to be the 1% rather than take from or be jealous of the 1%, the bad guy, doesn’t solve the problem.
All that does is make me want to buy assult rifles to protect myself from those out to take what I earned, because getting shit for free is a hell of a lot easier than what I go through to get it.
Sorry for the rash of spelling mistakes in above. 've become spell check dependant.
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
One other point worth mentioning too:
I think that being even in the Polls is actually “Advantage=Romney”.
I just have this “feeling” that the “Not Obama” vote is composed of people who will in fact get out and vote…and vote in record numbers.
TeaPublicans; Evangelicals; white males; conservative females…the list goes on and on for voting blocks who just want the President out.
Mufasa[/quote]
There are some groups Romney has ticked off. Namely hispanics and blacks. Because of all the talk about abortion and contraception rights, I think there might be a lot of women who go out to vote against Romney too. It’ll be a matter of if they’re ticked off enough about Romney to go out and vote and that I’m not sure of. [/quote]
I doubt that you’re correct but it matters not that Romney has ticked off black voters. Obama could turn out to be the anti Christ (not saying he his so relax Obama supporters) and black people would still vote for him. They are voting for skin color and nothing else as Obama has done nothing for African Americans. In fact there are more black people in poverty today than under George Bush! You don’t hear that from the MSLM though.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
One other point worth mentioning too:
I think that being even in the Polls is actually “Advantage=Romney”.
I just have this “feeling” that the “Not Obama” vote is composed of people who will in fact get out and vote…and vote in record numbers.
TeaPublicans; Evangelicals; white males; conservative females…the list goes on and on for voting blocks who just want the President out.
Mufasa[/quote]
Your gut is very good Mufasa!
As you know I run in conservative circles. I get the opportunity to speak with conservatives from every walk of life, from the rich and middle class to the poor. And I can assure you that men and women who are conservative probably hate this President more than the typical Obama supporter loves him. That spells a high turnout for Romney and most likely a lower than expected turnout for Obama. So theoretically Obama could go into the final days a couple of points ahead and still lose.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:<<< I don’t think it plays well. The broad electorate - not natural class warriors to begin with - are exhausted with it. Obama is turning up the juice on it to motivate his base to come out, not capture independents and moderates in the middle. >>>[/quote]Yes, countingbeans. I agree with Thunderbolt. The people it really carries weight with are not the ones they need it to be effective on. This is what I was talking about on the first page. He’s trying re-energize his far left base who sees him as not delivering as promised in his first term. Some people are starting to get the fact that if every CEO was made destitute tomorrow, they’d still be broke too.
[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< So theoretically Obama could go into the final days a couple of points ahead and still lose. >>>[/quote]That would be a first, though I’d be happy to see it.
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
This is why I think Obama will lose and lose big.
With the exception of #3 you are spot on!
Hollywood is indeed involved in trying to get Obama reelected. George Cloony just raised 14 million dollars for Obama, all from his Hollywood pals. And of course don’t forget the main stream liberal media. They’vr given Obama an easy ride for four years because they love him. And they DO NOT want him replaced.
[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< They’vr given Obama an easy ride for four years because they love him. And they DO NOT want him replaced.[/quote]Which is why they will find a way to work Romney’s comic book religion into the mix front and center.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
How do you think this whole “class warfare” thing is going to play into this election, and will it still be alive by the next? (Because we know both candidates will continue to give their friends our money.) But does the “idea” or whatever you want to call it have enough traction to be a movement, with an actual voice and actual solutions that aren’t communism?[/quote]
I don’t think it plays well. The broad electorate - not natural class warriors to begin with - are exhausted with it. Obama is turning up the juice on it to motivate his base to come out, not capture independents and moderates in the middle. I don’t think it is a movement that gains political traction, mostly because people know it’s the so-called “rich” who do the hiring, and people want to be hired, i.e., the number one issue in this election is “jobs” and the economy.
I do, however, think the candidate that wins the hearts and minds of the middle class takes the election - ironically, though, they don’t win it by constantly harping on the classes and class warfare.[/quote]
You said it TB, Obama is trying to gin up support with his base by attacking the rich. But that is in itself pathetic at this point in time. He needs the independents to win and class warfare is not something that excites this group.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:<<< So theoretically Obama could go into the final days a couple of points ahead and still lose. >>>[/quote]That would be a first, though I’d be happy to see it.
[/quote]
That’s why I said “theoretically”. However, many candidates have gone into the final days behind and done far better than expected. Gerald Ford for example in the 1976 Presidential election versus Jimmy Carter. He was trailing by three to four points in most polls and ended up losing by only two.
One more important point, if the media treated Obama the way they treated Bush Romney would have about a 5 point lead right now.