[quote]Lawry wrote:
The wierdest part is that most of really horrific and cruel things happen in Ukraine… Really im scared to go there and I was thinking of going on a road trip to Amsterdam through Ukraine… I mean even the movie " hostel " took place in Ukraine… I always thought those guys lived in Russia, well now it makes more sense, although Russians are pretty much the same…[/quote]
You almost had it there. Hostel was filmed in Slovakia.
[quote]saveski wrote:
Didn’t watch the video and don’t want to.
Just wanted to go on record to say that murderers should be murdered - scratch that. Murderers should be used for medical experimentation and for things like being live crash test dummies.
They should inflict as much pain on these useless pieces of shit as possible. I say set them on fire and then extinguish them. Cut their arms and legs off, inflict wounds to them and let army medics practice on them.
Then see how much crime happens. Motherfuckers will think twice before killing someone.
Savages only understand savagery.
And thank god I live in a state where I can carry a gun![/quote]
I would elect you president sir.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
so you see a man attacking a woman, beating her to death. you kill the man by your logic. little did you know the woman just murdered all three of his children. if you dont understand where im coming from its not your place to intervene in something like that with force. the most you can do is restrain.[/quote]
I just saw this.
I think the problem here is confusion. I get the impression most posters here think that you would simply call the police and walk away. However as I understand it you would subdue the man/stop the fight, call the police and make sure they resolve it? I agree with this. I doubt most people here would KILL the man, but I do think that the attacker should be restrained.
I also think this is to do with cultural differences. If you stumble on a situation like that you assume the worst and help the ‘victim’. That is just I was brought up.
Not watching this shit. Why even post this stuff?
Over here in China, you DO NOT interfere in other peoples business. You see someone getting smacked down in the street, a man beating his wife, two people get in an accident, someone getting mugged, you walk the other way as fast as possible. I have seen all these things happen. This is in your own self interest. It’s not a very civic minded attitude, nor do I like it, but its the way it is.
In the US, when two dudes are fighting, people let them go at it maybe for ten seconds, then the spectators all want to play hero and try to break it up. In China, you let the fight go until someone runs away, they submit totally, or they are being beaten to death. It’s an honor and saving face thing, and losing the fight saves more face than having someone save your ass. You try to break up two guys, you may find yourself being beaten for getting involved. The police also advise to never get involved.
To sum up, different cultures, different strokes.
so i clicked the link and was sent to a youtube video for breastfeeding pumps. what?
[quote]SpankMeElmo wrote:
so i clicked the link and was sent to a youtube video for breastfeeding pumps. what?[/quote]
late to the party my friend. op changed link. you can still google 3 guys 1 hammer if your interested. video is all over.
[quote]HotGymGuy wrote:
And who would you choose to mete out said punishment? I’d have worries about anyone who volunteered to do such a thing. Also such torture committed by a ‘normal’ person (even for justice sake) is still going to leave its mark on the psyche (or soul if you prefer) that can’t be erased.[/quote]
I’d be first in line to hand out the justice. And I wouldn’t lose a night’s sleep.
[quote]Deadsion wrote:
Deorum wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
Deorum wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
im not gonna lie, i had tears in my eyes watching that video, I couldnt even watch past the first 30 seconds. Personally, I would do the same thing that Clyde did in the law abiding citizen, tie them up and sever their limbs one by one. And I wanna do the same thing, if not worse, to parents who think their precious kids are innocent and the mothers who want to make sure their kids are being treated well in prison.
seriously you are going to have to explain your reasoning on this. since these sick fucks did some sick shit, you in turn want to make a sick fuck out of yourself by mutilating them… and their families?
I believe in an eye for an eye. Just imagine if that guy was your brother, dad, son, friend, and three spoiled rich kids killed him for fun. And then, because of the parents that spoiled them, instead of getting either capital punishment (come on, im from texas) or at least hard labor in life imprisonment, its being made sure that their “stay” at prison is comfortable. And their parents go as far as to say that their children are being framed, despite the numerous videos that show their kids killing people and animals. I’m a very vengeful person, but that’s why anyone who knows me would think a million times before fucking with me or my family.
i too believe in a form of eye for an eye, when it comes to personal life. if someone hits me in a bar, im going to make it so that he cant hit me again. that said when it comes to a goverenment punishment, torture is simply out of the question; and this isnt stemming from some fairy tale pretend rights shit. this is just what seperates us from the sociopaths (which many of you are exhibiting traits of). if they must be executed fine do it and leave it at that. once you start taking pleasure from the torture of any animal your something ugly that doesnt function quite right anymore.
But its not torture for pleasure, it’s a necessary evil to make sure that people like this don’t pop up again, thinking that they’ll just get a slap on the wrist. These sociopaths need to understand that if they put a person through such pain, they will go through the same pain if they get caught. Death doesn’t scare these people, they’re beyond that, hell its an easy way out for them. But pain, they understand pain and if you put it out there that their punishment will be pain instead of a small stay at a prison while mommy and daddy get them out, they will think twice before committing such atrocities.
[/quote]
uh yea, because we all undertand how effective the “deterrant” factor has been in our judicial system. listen, i’d take the motherfuckers in the woods and commence work on them. but the kid has an intellectual point and i haven’t seen an intelligent retort. i’m with you - i’m killing them slow, but i certainly cannot defend that desire intellectually. and neither can you apparently.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
Deorum wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
Deorum wrote:
Deadsion wrote:
im not gonna lie, i had tears in my eyes watching that video, I couldnt even watch past the first 30 seconds. Personally, I would do the same thing that Clyde did in the law abiding citizen, tie them up and sever their limbs one by one. And I wanna do the same thing, if not worse, to parents who think their precious kids are innocent and the mothers who want to make sure their kids are being treated well in prison.
seriously you are going to have to explain your reasoning on this. since these sick fucks did some sick shit, you in turn want to make a sick fuck out of yourself by mutilating them… and their families?
I believe in an eye for an eye. Just imagine if that guy was your brother, dad, son, friend, and three spoiled rich kids killed him for fun. And then, because of the parents that spoiled them, instead of getting either capital punishment (come on, im from texas) or at least hard labor in life imprisonment, its being made sure that their “stay” at prison is comfortable. And their parents go as far as to say that their children are being framed, despite the numerous videos that show their kids killing people and animals. I’m a very vengeful person, but that’s why anyone who knows me would think a million times before fucking with me or my family.
i too believe in a form of eye for an eye, when it comes to personal life. if someone hits me in a bar, im going to make it so that he cant hit me again. that said when it comes to a goverenment punishment, torture is simply out of the question; and this isnt stemming from some fairy tale pretend rights shit. this is just what seperates us from the sociopaths (which many of you are exhibiting traits of). if they must be executed fine do it and leave it at that. once you start taking pleasure from the torture of any animal your something ugly that doesnt function quite right anymore.
But its not torture for pleasure, it’s a necessary evil to make sure that people like this don’t pop up again, thinking that they’ll just get a slap on the wrist. These sociopaths need to understand that if they put a person through such pain, they will go through the same pain if they get caught. Death doesn’t scare these people, they’re beyond that, hell its an easy way out for them. But pain, they understand pain and if you put it out there that their punishment will be pain instead of a small stay at a prison while mommy and daddy get them out, they will think twice before committing such atrocities.
uh yea, because we all undertand how effective the “deterrant” factor has been in our judicial system. listen, i’d take the motherfuckers in the woods and commence work on them. but the kid has an intellectual point and i haven’t seen an intelligent retort. i’m with you - i’m killing them slow, but i certainly cannot defend that desire intellectually. and neither can you apparently.
[/quote]
Thats cause there is no intelligent reasoning to torture them, only emotional. Not that there is anything wrong with that, humans are after all pretty emotional beasts. I can’t say I would torture them myself, but I would sure as hell end them quickly, and who knows, maybe I would be so effected if I saw it in person to just snap and let the evil out and torture them. I have played out scenarios in my head of my wife or daughter getting kidnapped, raped and killed. I have to stop myself from going into a rage and I’m only thinking what I would do if it happened. If it did, only death would stop me from finding the people or person who did it, dragging them into the deep woods and making thier life as miserable as possible for as long as I could keep them alive.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
If you turn the corner and see this shit go down a little ways up and you are carrying heat. Are you going to call the cops, try to get them to surrender, or do you just open fire? I mean you see the kid with the video camera, you hear the laughter and you see the blows land one after another, you realize very quickly these kids are not acting in self defense. You have a gun, what do you do?
V[/quote]
veg, that can’t be a serious question. so you would throw away your life for thiers? what if the victim can be saved with prompt medical attention? you commit a murder so you can go to jail with them? i’m all for vengeance, but executed intelligently. people disappear all the time. if it were my call, they vanish. but i’m not shooting them and taking the rap for it. i’m stopping them, calling for help so the vic might survive and then its out of my hands. don’t you remember our gun thread? if they don’t turn and attack you, your visions of being hailed a hero for shooting them are going to evaporate during your grand jury hearing and subsequent indictment for murder II or III
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Vegita wrote:
If you turn the corner and see this shit go down a little ways up and you are carrying heat. Are you going to call the cops, try to get them to surrender, or do you just open fire? I mean you see the kid with the video camera, you hear the laughter and you see the blows land one after another, you realize very quickly these kids are not acting in self defense. You have a gun, what do you do?
V
veg, that can’t be a serious question. so you would throw away your life for thiers? what if the victim can be saved with prompt medical attention? you commit a murder so you can go to jail with them? i’m all for vengeance, but executed intelligently. people disappear all the time. if it were my call, they vanish. but i’m not shooting them and taking the rap for it. i’m stopping them, calling for help so the vic might survive and then its out of my hands. don’t you remember our gun thread? if they don’t turn and attack you, your visions of being hailed a hero for shooting them are going to evaporate during your grand jury hearing and subsequent indictment for murder II or III[/quote]
It was an open question to the forum. I don’t know how I would act. I would like to think I would draw on them and not fire, but try to get them to lay on the ground. But if they start running what do you do? I mean if it was the pregnant lady scenario and they had the baby out and shit like that, I really doubt I would be able to not unload on them. I mean even if I spent the rest of my life in jail, I would still believe I did the right thing in that situation. If society didn’t view my actions as right, then I obviously do not belong in that society anymore anyways.
V
[quote]saveski wrote:
RTJenforcer wrote:
saveski wrote:
I just watched maybe 4 seconds of that video and I say a BIG FUCK YOU to all those out there who don’t want to torture these murderers. They deserve to be slowly blowtorched. Would you like to see the perps spend an easy life in prison knowing YOUR KID had a screwdriver stuck in him?
Torture the motherfuckers, show it on TV and people will have respect for life.
I DO NOT understand how a sane person would NOT want pain inflicted on these evil pieces of shit. “Just lock 'em up.” Fuck that - eye for an eye and make an example out of them.
And don’t give me any bullshit on how that’s not logical, or that we’re lowering ourselves to their level - I don’t care! Make the punishment fit the crime. Extract vengeance.
Vengeance does not equal justice, no matter how satisfying. It would be a more fitting tribute to their victims to see them brought to justice, rather than be made a show of. It isn’t about not wanting pain inflicted on them. I certainly want to see them suffer. Everyone’s animal urge in this situation is to want to see the perpetrators suffer, but that isn’t how society works and it isn’t how justice works. It isn’t about what everyone WANTS done to them, but about doing the right thing. The problem here is looking at something which is such a violation of our base instincts in an objective way.
Doing the “right” thing is unfortuneately a matter of opinion.
I feel that if I’m justified in killing them if I was to witness the crime then I have the right to kill them later after they’re found guilty.
You said that it’s my “animal urge” to see the perps suffer, yes, that’s my emotional response BUT it’s also “my” RATIONAL response.
(Next time I come across someone being beaten to death and I’ve pulled my Glock on the bad guy, I’ll ask the victim if he would like me to shoot the bad guy or not.)[/quote]
I love this false bravado…and this is not a flame (to you per se - just using your post sir b/c it reflects the way many here feel, me included), but just a shot across the bow. Where do you live? Have you ever witnessed real violence (other than video)? Seen someone shot? Ever had a gun pointed at you by someone you knew would use it? Ever had bullets go by you? Been stabbed? Is it your opinion that no matter who the perpetrator, that you (and everyone that thinks like you) can get all dirty harry on them and extract revenge? There are some people in this world that you’d go looking for and you wouldn’t return. You’d be another victim. Your emotions are understandable and I share them, but they are not realistic for the average person - and I hate to tell you, most of you here are average, in every respect. The savagery that you decry would have to be met by equal or greater savagery and committment. It is easy to muster that on paper, in theory, etc., quite another to practice in the real world. Are you a killer? Or just a killer on paper? In theory? You feel rage yes. That’s normal. Everyone is capable of that. But not everyone is capable of handling all threats and acting on that rage. This isn’t a bar fight. It’s taking a human life and we are pretty much programmed and hard wired against that. It is why we have a rule of law and a police force. It’s not perfect, but without it, many of you in this very thread would be fucking victims. This is a great discussion, but not if it just continues without genuine reflection instead of blind meaningless literary rage. It simply isn’t a meaningful reply if 9 out of 10 of you couldn’t pull the trigger, couldn’t make the visit and return, couldn’t be savage, etc.
[quote]SuperHuman25 wrote:
well i hope im never getting the crap beat out of me with hammers and you come along with a gun and just stand there and call the police. If i knew you had the oppurtunity to help me and you didnt and I lived through it im pretty sure i would hate you just as much as the people that hurt me.
[/quote]
so if you raped the guys 11 year old daughter that was killing you, you think i’m worried about you hating me? listen, i get where you are coming from. but you are ignoring the rational retort by deorum. frankly, i think the strong have an obligation to protect the weak. and we are all strong in some manner or another. when you are stranded on the side of the road, no matter what you can bench press, you are weak and the guy who is skinny fat passing you in his suv is strong. what a better world it would be if we all lived that. if you know someone is an innocent or a victim and you are capable of stopping it, i think you are dutibound to stop it. if you do not know what the hell is happening you call 911. you are simply giving emotional and irrational responses. refer to our other thread about guns. i witnessed a lady being stuck up. i had a gun. but i had a 3 year old in the back seat. do i fucking pull my fun and commence my dirty harry routine? or do i hope she is not harmed and only robbed and protect the life of my son? when you happen upon real violence in real time (not monday morning QB from some video) things are not always crystal clear. decisions are made in fractions of seconds. understand where i’m coming from?
This thread turned out to be quite interesting. One of the reason that I love the nation. God bless you all fellas.
BC
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Thats cause there is no intelligent reasoning to torture them, only emotional. Not that there is anything wrong with that, humans are after all pretty emotional beasts. I can’t say I would torture them myself, but I would sure as hell end them quickly, and who knows, maybe I would be so effected if I saw it in person to just snap and let the evil out and torture them. I have played out scenarios in my head of my wife or daughter getting kidnapped, raped and killed. I have to stop myself from going into a rage and I’m only thinking what I would do if it happened. If it did, only death would stop me from finding the people or person who did it, dragging them into the deep woods and making thier life as miserable as possible for as long as I could keep them alive.
V[/quote]
We all feel these emotional tugs and outrages sir. But you do realize that statistically speaking, you’d do nothing but call the police and let the court system takes it course. The anger would eat at you inside, but you’d do nothing. It happens…EVERY SINGLE DAY. Not many of us have the constitution to kill - thankfully so.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Thats cause there is no intelligent reasoning to torture them, only emotional. Not that there is anything wrong with that, humans are after all pretty emotional beasts. I can’t say I would torture them myself, but I would sure as hell end them quickly, and who knows, maybe I would be so effected if I saw it in person to just snap and let the evil out and torture them. I have played out scenarios in my head of my wife or daughter getting kidnapped, raped and killed. I have to stop myself from going into a rage and I’m only thinking what I would do if it happened. If it did, only death would stop me from finding the people or person who did it, dragging them into the deep woods and making thier life as miserable as possible for as long as I could keep them alive.
V
We all feel these emotional tugs and outrages sir. But you do realize that statistically speaking, you’d do nothing but call the police and let the court system takes it course. The anger would eat at you inside, but you’d do nothing. It happens…EVERY SINGLE DAY. Not many of us have the constitution to kill - thankfully so.
[/quote]
I agree, but everyone has a breaking point. Seeing as I have never killed anyone, I don’t know where it is. I have no doubt in my mind that I have one though. Anything to do with my family and I’d cross it pretty quick. It would have to be a pretty evil act if it was in defense of a stranger though.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Vegita wrote:
If you turn the corner and see this shit go down a little ways up and you are carrying heat. Are you going to call the cops, try to get them to surrender, or do you just open fire? I mean you see the kid with the video camera, you hear the laughter and you see the blows land one after another, you realize very quickly these kids are not acting in self defense. You have a gun, what do you do?
V
veg, that can’t be a serious question. so you would throw away your life for thiers? what if the victim can be saved with prompt medical attention? you commit a murder so you can go to jail with them? i’m all for vengeance, but executed intelligently. people disappear all the time. if it were my call, they vanish. but i’m not shooting them and taking the rap for it. i’m stopping them, calling for help so the vic might survive and then its out of my hands. don’t you remember our gun thread? if they don’t turn and attack you, your visions of being hailed a hero for shooting them are going to evaporate during your grand jury hearing and subsequent indictment for murder II or III
It was an open question to the forum. I don’t know how I would act. I would like to think I would draw on them and not fire, but try to get them to lay on the ground. But if they start running what do you do? I mean if it was the pregnant lady scenario and they had the baby out and shit like that, I really doubt I would be able to not unload on them. I mean even if I spent the rest of my life in jail, I would still believe I did the right thing in that situation. If society didn’t view my actions as right, then I obviously do not belong in that society anymore anyways.
V[/quote]
I appreciate your emotions really, but this is simply not reality. If they run, maybe you try to apprehend. Maybe you get away with shooting them in the leg. You simply will not get away with MURDERING them though. And like it or not, we both know that’s what it is. The law does not permit us to dispense justice, no matter how “justified” 
Thinking it thru, about the only way you can draw down on them and keep your freedom is if they do not break off the attack and the victim’s life is in danger. You can use deadly force to save a life. You tell the motherfucker to cease and desist. If he raises to strike another blow, you can shoot. But seriously, I don’t want to have to say goodbye to my family if I’m wrong. If it were my family member, of course I shoot first and live with the consequences. Not easy decisions Veg. It’s why we have law. It’s why we have police.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Vegita wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Vegita wrote:
If you turn the corner and see this shit go down a little ways up and you are carrying heat. Are you going to call the cops, try to get them to surrender, or do you just open fire? I mean you see the kid with the video camera, you hear the laughter and you see the blows land one after another, you realize very quickly these kids are not acting in self defense. You have a gun, what do you do?
V
veg, that can’t be a serious question. so you would throw away your life for thiers? what if the victim can be saved with prompt medical attention? you commit a murder so you can go to jail with them? i’m all for vengeance, but executed intelligently. people disappear all the time. if it were my call, they vanish. but i’m not shooting them and taking the rap for it. i’m stopping them, calling for help so the vic might survive and then its out of my hands. don’t you remember our gun thread? if they don’t turn and attack you, your visions of being hailed a hero for shooting them are going to evaporate during your grand jury hearing and subsequent indictment for murder II or III
It was an open question to the forum. I don’t know how I would act. I would like to think I would draw on them and not fire, but try to get them to lay on the ground. But if they start running what do you do? I mean if it was the pregnant lady scenario and they had the baby out and shit like that, I really doubt I would be able to not unload on them. I mean even if I spent the rest of my life in jail, I would still believe I did the right thing in that situation. If society didn’t view my actions as right, then I obviously do not belong in that society anymore anyways.
V
I appreciate your emotions really, but this is simply not reality. If they run, maybe you try to apprehend. Maybe you get away with shooting them in the leg. You simply will not get away with MURDERING them though. And like it or not, we both know that’s what it is. The law does not permit us to dispense justice, no matter how “justified” Thinking it thru, about the only way you can draw down on them and keep your freedom is if they do not break off the attack and the victim’s life is in danger. You can use deadly force to save a life. You tell the motherfucker to cease and desist. If he raises to strike another blow, you can shoot. But seriously, I don’t want to have to say goodbye to my family if I’m wrong. If it were my family member, of course I shoot first and live with the consequences. Not easy decisions Veg. It’s why we have law. It’s why we have police.
[/quote]
If I see them cut out a pregnant ladys child, stab it in front of her and start to bash on her, I really could care less about the law or the consequenses. Really I wouldn’t, BUT that being said, if I down all three of them what jury isn’t going to believe me when I tell them that I believed the lady to still be alive and told them to stop what they were doing and they kept hitting her. I mean are they going to be like, Oh yea, these guys seemed rational enough to stop doing that when they were told. I don’t think I do a lick of time in that scenario and I probably get a key to the city. BUT even if I did go to jail, I would be fine with the decision I made.
V
anyway, once we get by the revenge emotion/fantasy, there are certainly some interesting elements of this that are worthy of discussion. such as, capital punishment, long term imprisonment, etc. in other words, how to handle and what to do with animals like this? having super hero fantasies of revenge are pretty empty on the internet. and our government does not torture. mostly an interesting discussion. for the record, and i’m a pretty jaundiced guy who has been exposed to probably more violence than anyone here - i only watched a few seconds of it and i couldn’t continue. frankly, i wish i didn’t view it and i wouldn’t watch any of it again.