Why hasn’t the “you don’t need direct arm work if you use compound exercises” myth not died yet?
Yes! You NEED direct arm work in addition to compound lifts if you want to have arms with decent size that are balanced with the rest of your body.
Only a few very genetically gifted people can get away with only using compound lifts and no direct arm work and actually still have big arms.
Personal experience, unless you are totally new, for your goals your current routine is not very good.
There’s a ton of short 3 day a week workout programs all over the internet. I’ve seen you request a few and sorry but I am of little help since all I would do is use the search button which is the same thing you can do. That just doesn’t sound like an incredibly difficult search that you should need help.
As for your program?
Day 1) 5 sets of squats 5 sets of dips? in 45 minutes? For Someone with little time sure sounds like your wasting a ton of it. thats about 5 minutes of actual weight movement in 45 minutes.
You can add alot more damage to your muscle and alot more more recovery if you use the super setting method, higher volume, and a 4 day schedule. Not 4 times a week. But 4 day schedule meaning your last workout is the begining of th next week.
Considering you think your mixing it up going from low reps to 8 reps, I assume your a scared of volume guy. No need to be just remember your goal righ tnow is building muscle since you should have just come of a solid strength cycle.
Unless you have good calves already they should be done everytime you walk in the gym. Just superset them with an exercise, any one of them.
Put your bench, dips together and why not add a flye post fatigue superset with the bench. For your day 1. Add another tricep exercise also, preferebly something with your arms shoulder height or higher.
move the overhead press down to your day 3 day.
You can move your chins up to day 2 with the rows and kill the back, add a curl too. Do back on Day 4 also.
Keep your squats and deadlifts to every other workout the way you have them. This will end up with one week your deadlifts being on a chest and tri’s day, and the next week its on the back and bi’s day.
[quote]Sabastian525 wrote:
I have added two measured inches to my arms just doing weighted chinups and dips 2x/week, so yeah, I’m gonna keep doing it until growth stalls. THEN maybe I’ll consider preacher curls or triceps kickbacks, pinky out, to “balance out the pectorals” or whatever.
-Sab[/quote]
12" to 14". Daaaamn!
To the OP, when you tire of your routine, look into HIT. Whole-body in 40 minutes or less.
I would do Chad Waterbury’s Total Body Training. 3 x per week with day 1 heavy, day 2 medium rep ranges, day 3 is 15 reps + Great way to mix it up and ive had results already even though ive just started week 3. Each workout can be done in 45mins (just).
Choose 4 compounds and 2 isolation movements and work every major muscle group in each workout. Up the weights by small increments each session. Fab stuff and the different rep ranges everyday and the fact you change your exersizes every week stops the repetitive boredom factor from creeping in.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
michael2507 wrote:
mr popular wrote:
Would it be reasonable to say to yourself, okay, I only have 45 minutes to train, 3x a week, so I’ll just not do any exercises for my thighs since they will get “hit” from the walking i do in and out of the gym.
Sadly, I’ve actually heard people saying this or something similar (‘I go jogging so I don’t have to train legs’).
In the given context, we’re talking about two different things, though. Walking doesn’t hit the thighs with sufficient intensity to promote strength and size gains. Heavy presses, chins and rows on the other hand do with regard to the biceps and triceps.
Apart from that, legs are a larger muscle group and the relevant exercises (e.g., squats, deads etc.) also play a far greater role in athletic performance as well as whole body strength and mass development. Again, apples and oranges.
See, the thing is that in a lot of cases chins and rows don’t hit the biceps with sufficient intensity to promote strength and size gains either. Or, if they do, then they don’t provide sufficient stimulus to the muscles of the back. Yes, it’s possible to do arm dominant chins and rows, but you’re then going to have to also perform back dominant movements as well. Not really any more efficient when you think about it.[/quote]
I’d rather say chins or rows don’t necessarily provide sufficient stimulus to the biceps to develop optimally or proportionally or vice versa for the muscles of the back.
Put someone on the periodized Starr/Pendlay 5x5 program, an exemplar for a ‘compound only’ routine, for a few weeks with a caloric surplus and I’ll wager that he will gain some mass on his whole body, arms and back included. In contrast, taking a walk and a caloric surplus will not promote muscle growth in the legs.
That was the point I was trying to make with regard to the post I quoted.
My argument was that exercises focusing on the legs like the ones mentioned in my previous post are superior with regard to athletic endeavors. In my opinion, even a rock climber or a gymnast who specializes in the rings or pommel horse would benefit more from deads and squats than form curls, pressdowns, kickbacks or the like. Hell, even an arm wrestler would do good focusing on deadlifts rather that curls in my opinion, of course with additional grip work etc.
Beyond that, MarcusPhaeton did a great job in stating what I was trying to say in an abbreviated fashion.
[quote]
Now I know what you were trying to say. But the accuracy of that statement really depends on the context.
Also, just so no one accuses me of avoiding leg work, I don’t. I was simply trying to get people to realize that things aren’t always as black or white as some might have us believe (not saying this is you Michael).[/quote]
Just as little as I avoid direct arm work. The intent of my post was to point out the perceived discrepancy in mr popular’s post, nothing more.
Anyway, interesting post as usual, Sentoguy.
[quote]michael2507 wrote:
I’d rather say chins or rows don’t necessarily provide sufficient stimulus to the biceps to develop optimally or proportionally or vice versa for the muscles of the back.
Put someone on the periodized Starr/Pendlay 5x5 program, an exemplar for a ‘compound only’ routine, for a few weeks with a caloric surplus and I’ll wager that he will gain some mass on his whole body, arms and back included. In contrast, taking a walk and a caloric surplus will not promote muscle growth in the legs.
That was the point I was trying to make with regard to the post I quoted.
[/quote]
Well, I’d definitely have to agree with that. And sorry if I misinterpreted your previous post.
Well, to the best of my knowledge most high level gymnasts never squat or deadlift, so I might argue with that statement. But, yeah, I know a former professional rock climber, and he definitely does leg work.
The point that I thought you were making was that lower body exercises (like squats) were always more beneficial athletically than upper body exercises. If you meant that heavy compounds are generally more important than isolations, then yes, in most contexts that is true.
But even then there are exceptions. For instance, an Iron cross on rings is technically an isolation exercise (because there is only movement at a single joint), so performing “cross dips” would be more beneficial (or at least specific) for a gymnast than performing bench press.
Also, being that this is the “bodybuilding” forum, I’d say that there really aren’t any “more” important exercises. In a bodybuilding context, neglecting any exercise (or type of exercise) that is needed for maximal development, symmetry, and proportion would be a mistake. Bringing the discussion into an athletic context is interesting, but not necessarily relevant in this context (I realize that I am guilty of doing this as well).
[quote]
Just as little as I avoid direct arm work. The intent of my post was to point out the perceived discrepancy in mr popular’s post, nothing more.
Anyway, interesting post as usual, Sentoguy.[/quote]
Glad to hear you don’t avoid direct arm work. And interesting post as well Michael. 
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Glad to hear you don’t avoid direct arm work.[/quote]
To me, direct arm work is a tool among others. Not or only sparingly using a tool at a certain point of time because it doesn’t suit your needs at the moment is one thing. Avoiding it as a matter of principle is plain foolish…
[quote]michael2507 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Glad to hear you don’t avoid direct arm work.
To me, direct arm work is a tool among others. Not or only sparingly using a tool at a certain point of time because it doesn’t suit your needs at the moment is one thing. Avoiding it as a matter of principle is plain foolish…[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
The advice that I see passed around this site without a semblance of thought in my opinion is a one way ticket to set up many beginners to fail because of lack of success.
Yes new people should focus on basics, no one is going to argue that, however focusing on the basics at the exclusion of hitting muscles that aren’t hit adequately with them will develop a somewhat odd physique. If a person trains to look good(ie bodybuilding forum) then not many people care if they grew 2 inches on their quads if they barely had any improvement on their arms shoulders or chest. Maybe the “T-boys” will give praise but not the girl on the street or whatever the motivation is for the person training. The basics for many like myself tend to develop an odd physique. Large traps legs and ass, smaller arms and shoulders. That doesn’t feel good and it doesn’t look good to most.
Nobody knows each others genetics. Myself I barely need to do any triceps work at all because they get hit adequately from pressing movements…score one for the compounds only crowd. However they would be “good enough” from my chest and shoulder pressing, but I don’t want good enough triceps, I want big footballs hanging off my arm and do triceps dominant exercises as well. My biceps DO NOT get adequate work from rows and chins and require direct work(even special exercises) or else they stay the same… score one for the do isolation exercises where neeeded crowd. Someone who didn’t know this about me can’t tell me rows and chins will give me good biceps(although they will try) because they just don’t know and assume everyone develops the same way.
Some are giving advice without the slightest thought as to age experience injuries etc and don’t mind. If the OP has a bulging disk and all he hears is SQUATS AND DEADS!!! then we aren’t really helping him are we? The burden falls on both sides, the person asking questions to give some background information, goals, etc… but the people giving “advice” should also have some responsibility in giving advice that falls within the OPs goals and with what other information they give.
[/quote]
Some excellent advice coming out of this thread. Well absorbed, as I was thinking that compounds were enough for the arms (I’m definitely not genetically gifted) - and yes, I’d like proportionate growth on the arms too.
Follow up question, if I was to do work arms twice a week for both bis and tris, what would be your suggestions for:
a) Best (or most bang for buck) exercises
b) Set-rep schemes
Thanks again
S
Everyone responds slightly differently but my exercises I like best for myself are
Biceps
(you will see what I mean by special exercises)
Alternate Seated Dumbbell Curls-but gripped hammer style at the bottom(thumb pressed against plate, yes that’s different but try it) and rotated as they pass the thighs into full supination
Drag Curls-regular standing barbell curl up, lowering the bar against(literally dragging) the chest/abdomen.
Triceps
Reverse Grip Presses(has to be smith)- like this
DC Chest/Shoulder/Tri Workout w/Jason Wojo - YouTube starts at about 3:00 but the whole video is great, huge weights total control
Floor Extensions-like this(think dead lift for triceps)
For arms I like slightly higher reps, say 10-15 for elbow safety purposes. I’d say pick one from each category, work up to your heaviest set of 10-15 and alternate which one you do each time.