Due to this post, I can comfortably say that there is a group of men that are far, far, geekier than I am or ever was.
— And I played Dungeons and Dragons at MIT with the original dice you had to color in with a crayon.
— Also, Superman could kick all of these freakshows’ asses. So could Batman.
My point with Gohan wasn’t to do with status btw. It was about defending people. Yeah if he wasn’t away, he would’ve died too. That goes for Goku as well.
You don’t get Zenkai boosts from death. Yes to all the others.
Gohan always had a rapid growth rate. Along his the base of strength that he had, his HTC training with Goku gave him the perfect environment to excel.
That part with the Ginyu Force was filler btw.
Yeah I can see that.
Yeah I should say his introduction up to Goku’s surpasses him on his way to Namek. Regarding the start of the Android saga, remember that Goku had the heart virus, so comparing their strength at the time is dicey.
It’s not just his attitude during the movie. It’s also that he does the worst against Broly. Cooler’s Revenge is Vegeta’s best film excluding Battle of Gods. It’s also the first one he is in.
Someone has to be the catalyst after all.
Of course.
It definitely doesn’t hinder power. On the contrary, half Saiyans have demonstrated greater potential power provided that they train. It’s probably due to human emotions. There are two potential cons. One being that partial Saiyans may not get full Zenkai boosts. We know that they can get them because Gohan was stronger after fighting Recoome. It’s just not clear if the boost is as potent. The second con would be that partial Saiyans wouldn’t have the same drive towards fighting as full blooded Saiyans. I would say that this is the main reason that Goku and Vegeta are the strongest. Their children aren’t as driven to fight.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Due to this post, I can comfortably say that there is a group of men that are far, far, geekier than I am or ever was.
— And I played Dungeons and Dragons at MIT with the original dice you had to color in with a crayon.
[/quote]
Nah. I think you still win that one lol.
Superman maybe. He would lose to Alucard for sure. Batman would have to suck his own dick.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Due to this post, I can comfortably say that there is a group of men that are far, far, geekier than I am or ever was.
— And I played Dungeons and Dragons at MIT with the original dice you had to color in with a crayon.
[/quote]
I forgot about that.
Those were not crayons, those were some white, greasy pseudo pens…
Ya, I’m a geek at heart, but playing dungeons and dragons is hardcore geek.
Whatevs, I embrace it. I’m an accountant for cryin out loud.
If DBZ entered DC’s world batman would of course have a way to beat them… otherwise ya, no. Superman is just another alien so not sure.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
If DBZ entered DC’s world batman would of course have a way to beat them… otherwise ya, no. Superman is just another alien so not sure. [/quote]
Honestly, I think Supes and Goku would just be so overjoyed that they’ve finally found their ideal sparring partners and would go off to fight for all eternity
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Future Trunks, Future Gohan, Piccolo, Bardock, Teen Gohan, Mystic Gohan, Goku (on Namek), 16, and Beerus[/quote]
All shit tier sorry. Vegeta wins.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
— Also, Superman could kick all of these freakshows’ asses. So could Batman.
[/quote]
I say this as a ridiculous Goku fan… Superman wins every time… Goku is always about overcoming his limits, Superman has none.
Obviously in this they kind of screw up and because the ‘base’ Goku they use is the one from early in the series, and Goku’s base form later in the series is SEVERAL times stronger, but still, Superman is just another tier.
Also, no love for Yusuke Urameshi in the badass discussion? I’m disappointed.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I say this as a ridiculous Goku fan… Superman wins every time… Goku is always about overcoming his limits, Superman has none.
Obviously in this they kind of screw up and because the ‘base’ Goku they use is the one from early in the series, and Goku’s base form later in the series is SEVERAL times stronger, but still, Superman is just another tier.
Also, no love for Yusuke Urameshi in the badass discussion? I’m disappointed.
[/quote]
Yusuke and Raizen, yeah.
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Future Trunks, Future Gohan, Piccolo, Bardock, Teen Gohan, Mystic Gohan, Goku (on Namek), 16, and Beerus[/quote]
All shit tier sorry. Vegeta wins.[/quote]
Whatever.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Future Trunks, Future Gohan, Piccolo, Bardock, Teen Gohan, Mystic Gohan, Goku (on Namek), 16, and Beerus[/quote]
All shit tier sorry. Vegeta wins.[/quote]
Whatever.[/quote]
Quick, spartee, challenge him to a bench press duel.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Gohan always had a rapid growth rate. Along his the base of strength that he had, his HTC training with Goku gave him the perfect environment to excel.
[/quote]
I suppose, but that was still a lot of growth in 1 year. Vegeta, Trunks, and Goku were already Super Saiyans when entered the chamber. Gohan had to ascend and then surpass them all in such a short time.
[quote]
That part with the Ginyu Force was filler btw. [/quote]
Sure, but it still happened right? Like when they fight Garlic Jr again and of course he’s as strong as form 2 or 3 Freeza. Just silly…
[quote]
Regarding the start of the Android saga, remember that Goku had the heart virus, so comparing their strength at the time is dicey. [/quote]
From what I recall Piccilo made it sounds like Vegeta was stronger regardless of the virus. As in Super Saiyan 1 Vegeta was stronger.
[quote]
It definitely doesn’t hinder power. On the contrary, half Saiyans have demonstrated greater potential power provided that they train. It’s probably due to human emotions. There are two potential cons. One being that partial Saiyans may not get full Zenkai boosts. We know that they can get them because Gohan was stronger after fighting Recoome. It’s just not clear if the boost is as potent. The second con would be that partial Saiyans wouldn’t have the same drive towards fighting as full blooded Saiyans. I would say that this is the main reason that Goku and Vegeta are the strongest. Their children aren’t as driven to fight.[/quote]
I don’t know if I agree. I think the half humans had an easier time ascending to new levels (due to their humanity most likely), but not necessarily demonstrated greater potential power. If that were the cases I feel like future Gohan and future Trucks would have been able to defeat the androids in their time. They had enough time to do it, but again from what I remember, they hit Super Saiyan and never surpassed that level. It took both Gohan and Trucks time with their fathers to ascend any further. Maybe the half humans lack the vision to ascend to further heights? If you remember Gohan actually get weaker between the Cell and Bu Saga’s. I’m not sure if a full blooded Saiyan would lose power if they don’t train or fight, but maybe that’s tied to the drive to train/fight that you alluded to.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Superman has none.
[/quote]
None you say?
[quote]Pabro wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
If DBZ entered DC’s world batman would of course have a way to beat them… otherwise ya, no. Superman is just another alien so not sure. [/quote]
Honestly, I think Supes and Goku would just be so overjoyed that they’ve finally found their ideal sparring partners and would go off to fight for all eternity[/quote]
I think Goku would love it. Supes would hate it, imo. He fights for a purpose (to save people stop crime). Goku fights because he literally loves it. It’s in his blood.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
Gohan always had a rapid growth rate. Along his the base of strength that he had, his HTC training with Goku gave him the perfect environment to excel.
[/quote]
I suppose, but that was still a lot of growth in 1 year. Vegeta, Trunks, and Goku were already Super Saiyans when entered the chamber. Gohan had to ascend and then surpass them all in such a short time.
[/quote]
They were already SSJs. Sure. That doesn’t mean that there was an insurmountable gap in base power.
[quote]
Also filler. Blame Toei for that.
[quote]
Ambiguous. The virus had been afflicting Goku for the entire time prior. Don’t see how Piccolo would know for sure how strong Goku was unhindered.
[quote]
That’s what I said. They don’t have the same drive to fight and train. Future Gohan and Trunks are poor examples. Gohan had no one to train him. That year inside of the HTC with Goku was crucial to his development. There’s also the three years of training prior to that that were likely forgone. There are also some odd inconsistencies. His hidden power is surprisingly absent. It’s likely that that mechanism was used to allow Gohan to become a SSJ as opposed to lending itself toward his SSJ2 transformation. He just didn’t have good training.
Trunks actually did defeat the Androids and Cell in his timeline after the training he got in the HTC. It’s reasonable to speculate that Gohan would’ve done the same had he received the same opportunity. We have no way of knowing if Saiyans get weaker over time without training since they keep fighting and training throughout their lifetime (excluding GT). Just going off of how ahead of the curve Gohan, Trunks, and Goten were as children speaks volumes. Gohan getting weaker has nothing to do with potential. It’s just drive. Even looking at Future Gohan and Trunks, Gohan became a SSJ on his own. Trunks likely did the same (in the manga, he was already a SSJ before Gohan died).
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Superman has none.
[/quote]
None you say?[/quote]
If Superman has absorbed enough yellow sunlight, a red sun actually wouldn’t do anything.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
They were already SSJs. Sure. That doesn’t mean that there was an insurmountable gap in base power.
[/quote]
I donno man. The increase from non-super to super saiyan was pretty substantial and the increase to “super” Vegeta for example was also pretty substantial. Goku jokes about how many times Vegeta would have to of increased his power in the hyoerbolic time chamber to stand a chance against Cell (I think he said triple) and Vegeta laughs it off clearly having done more than that.
So Gohan would have had to go super saiyan and then at least triple that level in a year.
That’s a lot.
Filler absolutely. It still points out how the power increases are a bit sketchy in the show.
Ambiguous sure. I always took the scene as Piccilo comparing Goku’s strenght unhindered by the virus vs Vegeta’s strength unhindered.
Either way it is pretty irrelevant.
[quote]
That’s what I said. They don’t have the same drive to fight and train. Future Gohan and Trunks are poor examples. Gohan had no one to train him. [/quote]
Who trains Vegeta?
[quote]
That year inside of the HTC with Goku was crucial to his development. [/quote]
Of course.
[quote]
There’s also the three years of training prior to that that were likely forgone. There are also some odd inconsistencies. His hidden power is surprisingly absent. It’s likely that that mechanism was used to allow Gohan to become a SSJ as opposed to lending itself toward his SSJ2 transformation. He just didn’t have good training. Trunks actually did defeat the Androids and Cell in his timeline after the training he got in the HTC. It’s reasonable to speculate that Gohan would’ve done the same had he received the same opportunity. [/quote]
The point is, they survived for years with the androids destroying the Earth yet were unable to surpass super saiyan. Future Gohan never does and dies. Future trunks doesn’t until he travels back in time and train with Vegeta. If half Saiyans have greater power potential then future trunck, given years to develop while surviving, should have ascended at least to super trunks level.
[quote]
We have no way of knowing if Saiyans get weaker over time without training since they keep fighting and training throughout their lifetime (excluding GT). [/quote]
True, I’m speculating.
[quote]
Just going off of how ahead of the curve Gohan, Trunks, and Goten were as children speaks volumes. [/quote]
Ya and I’ve always thought it was odd they had such power at their ages. I don’t think it makes any sense. Why would human, with such low power levels, mixed with saiyans make a stronger fighter?
[quote]
Gohan getting weaker has nothing to do with potential. It’s just drive. Even looking at Future Gohan and Trunks, Gohan became a SSJ on his own. Trunks likely did the same (in the manga, he was already a SSJ before Gohan died).[/quote]
Goku and Vegeta both become SSJ on their own too. The point being only Goku does it without seeing or feeling the power of a SSJ. Everyone else has at least a grasp of the power and knows they have that potential.
It’s like how no one broke a 4 minute mile for decades then all of a sudden 1 guy breaks 4 minutes and then a bunch of people break 4. It’s funny how that works.
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
Superman has none.
[/quote]
None you say?[/quote]
If Superman has absorbed enough yellow sunlight, a red sun actually wouldn’t do anything.[/quote]
For a while. Not forever.
