Will answer after I finish a fat portion of desert (currently eating)
lol and im about to have breakfast
Why is that? Cocaine is… not great for you’re heart, now this is dose dependent… a SINGULAR 10mg line won’t have the same cardiac effect of say… a binge session, repeatedly blowing through 50mg doses until you’ve gone through that entire gram.
Combine cocaine with alcohol and you’ve formed cocaethylene. A FAR more problematic metabolite. In this reply I’m going over only the cardiac effects, neurological effects themselves suck from binge use or frequent use, but that’s not the factor being explained here.
There are numerous facets as to why cocaine is harmful for the heart
Firstly we have increased catecholamine release, sensitivity to catecholamine release. This results in a DOSE DEPENDENT increase in heart rate, respiration etc. so that 10mg line might acutely bring up you’re heart rate from 60 to 90 bears per minute at rest… but that binge session might bring it up from 60 to 195 beats per minute at rest. Such an increase absent of exercise stimuli will create a hypoxic environment, as the heart isn’t supposed to beat so hard and fast for so long… this induced apoptopic mechanisms within myocardial cells, inducing cell death and replacement with fibrous tissue, cells that don’t die will also enlarge in response to the vastly increased cardiac workload over time (cardiomyopathy), however this adaptation differs from exercise/athletic cardiomyopathy in that it is associated with significant deterioration in cardiac function, rather than mainteance, only slight deterioration or even improvement in several parameters. With the singular 10mg line this isn’t such an issue, a heart rate of 95’isnt ideal, but for a few hours/days or even weeks it’s nothing to worry about
Next we have the effect on sodium channels and calcium handling. These electrolytes are pivotal for maintenance of regular cardiac rhythm. Cocaine puts these way out of whack, predisposing one to lethal arrhythmia in a dose dependent fashion… however some are immeasurably unlucky and will drop after a single 10mg line just as how some will acquire liver and kidney failure from two Tylenol (yes… it’s happened)… amphetamine doesn’t have such a profound impact on electrokyte balance, and thus acutely is less likely to cause you to drop… neither are particularly “LIKELY” to cause you to drop, but from an overall mortality perspective, amphetamine is less likely to kill
Thirdly, intense vasoconstriction… this can lead to say (rarely… or commonly in older people using) coronary vasospasm and thus acute myocardial infarction with or without underlying heart disease present… cerebrovascular events may also occur in relation to this. Both amphetamines and cocaine have this risk when dosed heavily.
Amphetamines induce factors 1,3 cocaine induced 1,2 and 3… hence why theoretically amphetamine abuse in an acute setting is (slightly) safer.
Amphetamine also tends to be less reinforcing in retrospect to the potential for compulsive redosing. When drinking, the formation of cocaethylene significantly prolongs the stimulant, dopaminergic etc effects of coke… however amphetamine with or without drinking can last 8-12 hours, and thus the user is less likely to keep using more and more and more and more… thus the sheer level of toxicity due to high dose exposure is lessened… cocaethylene is extremely toxic to the cardiovascular system in terms of inducing arrhythmia and direct injury, most who use coke (that I know) tend to drink firsthand before deciding to use… both combinations put a lot of strain on the cardiovascular system, but booze+coke is the worst combo out of the two. There are numerous other risks associated with both coke, booze and amphetamine but I’m talking just cardiac here
Secondly, think of it like AAS… these is a dose dependent cardiotoxicity (in this case due to catecholamine release primarily), it’ll shut down you’re natural T3 production and thus metabolism will rebound and for an initial period get worse. Prolonged use will downregulate the bodies metabolic responses to normal parameters. Overdose potential is real for thyroid hormone though. Unless you really need it, I don’t recommend it at all, you’re just potentially compounding long term ailment
Furthermore, AAS also increase sensitivity to catecholamine binding sites (up regulation of)… so don’t use coke on cycle. It’ll make the pronarrythmisc effect more pronounced… sure, plenty of bodybuilders, fitness models and whatnot do use coke on tren, AAS or whatever… but it’s a rather irresponsible thing to do (in my opinion, each to their own), as it makes the whole process just that much riskier long term.
Edit: though hyperthermia from very high dose amphetamine abuse or methamphetsmine use (regular dosages in this case) can induce electrolyte balance too
Excuse shitty grammar, using old crappy phone with crackedish screen
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Yea… if I have a few cones I’ll see “extra colours” too
I read everything you said and thank God i don’t do cocaine … anymore lol… at least I made a good decision finally. In all honesty I never used it for months on end or anything but ya those cardiac risks are scary asf.
lol is cones slang for something?
Yes… In all honesty if you’re like a few that I know who use cocaine like 1-2 x per year… you’ll (probably) be fine if not using AAS, but it’s one of the riskier substances you can use in an acute setting
So much so that I wouldn’t use any amount… but I tend to be very conservative. I feel it’s pivotal that if someone is to experiment with a substance they understand the full extent (even rare complications) of risk associated with their substance/es of experimentation. As many (particular young coke users) have no fucking idea of the profound potential for harm associated with the chemical
If you’re aware of the potential for harm yet experiment anyway, then I respect you more even if you decide to use… as you’ve taken the time and effort to educate yourself on the potential risks, you aren’t just callously shoving whatever up your nose. Same goes for MDMA, in itself the compound is quite safe if used sparingly at reasonable dosages… but in Aus MDMA has NO MDMA at all statistically the majority of the time… so you’ve got these dumbass kids shovelling random chemicals in their mouths/up their noses and having terrible reactions… methamphetamine is a common cutting agent where I live as my area has a fairly big meth problem (in the poorer areas, I live on a farm but the borough near my farm is a poorer area), so dealers who sell both MDMA and meth tend to put meth in to space the product out and sell more
A cone is a joint (pure)
I was like that. Now I’m like: fuck that.
Also, I’ve tried the fake MDMA aka mephedrone. I actually found it to be like a nice mix between cocaine and MDMA but you never actually “roll” and the desire to redose is insane. I would never do that shit anymore.
This is me 100%. I’m just short of 5’8" and weighed 202 this morning. I’m doing research for a possible run with tren in the summer and can’t decide if I want to pile on the size and become a strong slob or use it to lean out. Some of my recent reading makes me think that people have a hard time losing weight on tren because its just too damn good at building mass. Thoughts? @big_boy_today @unreal24278
Sorry I’ve got to ask the question here… mephodrone (aka: bath salts)
Why would you try this stuff when it’s been linked to quite a few sudden cardiac deaths (despite only being around for a brief time), has a high incidence/potential for inducing acute psychosis etc
You’d be safer off (even though drug use isn’t safe) taking whatever has been around for longer. It’s like spice (synthetic cannabinoids), why not just take regular cannabis, it’s less risky
Also I don’t know if mephodrone is fake MDMA… I know where I’m around due to a massive ice problem fake MDMA (which is far more common than real MDMA) is PMMA, PMA, methamphetamine + some kind of psychedelic or small amounts of MDMA+methamphetamine
I can’t comment on how effective these substitutes are in ralation to replicating the feeling of MDMA as I’ve never taken MDMA. No judgement to those who do/have used it at all, I just don’t want to risk taking meth, PMMA or PMA (first because I’d go psychotic, second and third because they’re extremely, extremely dangerous)
I’d be far less worried about this and more worried about the potential for cardiac, renal Neurological etc effects of tren. Even if you can’t lose weight… the scale doesn’t matter, if you’re dropping bf% and rapidly gaining muscle mass (as is possible with something as potent as tren) you may not lose weight even in quite a caloric deficit
The effect of tren on lipolysis is strong… even when bulking, if diet is somewhat clean fat gain may be minimal to nonexistent… not to say that’s free reign to fuck around with KFC and McDonald’s on a daily basis (as I’ve been doing as it’s about the only think I can afford in Europe lol)… eating like that on tren (pro lipid oxidation, deleterious effect on lipid profile etc) would likely lead to even further long term detriment
i see a lot of people complain they can’t gain weight on it. people in this thread cautioned me about sides, but no one said It wouldnt be good for recomp.
it wasn’t a good idea, i was younger and more experimental. i was into the gym, but i didn’t know i would ever want to compete, so i would do harder drugs from time to time. i heard a freind that was ordering pure mephedrone and methlyon powder by the kilo and I got mine from him. it was legal to order it fur research, kinda like SARMs. It was decent, but ididn’t fo enough for my fingers to turn blue or anything lol.
Fair enough, I understand the lust for experimentation… but if you’re going to use and/or experiment with something, wouldn’t you rather it be within a context wherein you know of the potential risks?
With compounds as specified above. The new, entirely I researched nature of the compounds potentially indicates significant risks. With cocaine… at the very least we have solid literature relating to the potential risks involved (both acute and long term)… with mephodrone, whilst we can stipulate similar risks exist when compared to MDMA (hyperthermia, arrhythmia… mostly stemming from complications relating to extensive dehydration… water intoxication (people drinking a ton of water to counteract the drug induced dehydration), long term potential neurotoxicity) however the psychosis inducing elements, exactly how toxic the compound is within regard to acute usage remains unknown and thus due to the numerous reports of mephodrone induced aggression, cardiac toxicity after only a short duration of being on the market perhaps hints the substance is quite dangerous.
Regardless it isn’t important now as you don’t use it anymore… and that’s probably for the best lol