2nd Cycle - Opinions Wanted

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]saps wrote:
Cortes wrote:

From what I know, pretty well any sides, even hair loss, even gyno, are reversible IF the proper precautions are taken and the proper ancillaries on hand or in use before you ever begin. There is no reason that any commonly sited side needs to become any real issue for anyone in this day and age of easy acquisition of damned near anything at all we need.

Great point and yes that is a big IF. What vets learned the hard way and sadly rookies dont fully understand because they can’t without experience is that you must put more time, energy, focus and money into ancillaries than the actual AAS. Obviously those of use who are part of a homebrew operation have relatively low costs for AAS. But even if you buy your stuff online or whatever consider what you’ll need for a mid level test-tren-dbol cycle ancillary wise. You’ll need you AI either letro or adex, depending on whether you get pills or a liquid RC that’s probably going to run you at least as much as a 10ml vial of test [if my understanding of current pricing is right]. You’ll need some caber. Forget any place stuffing it liquid. You may choose to get some nolva for your PCT and those three ancillaries are only for gyno control. There’s finasteride for potential hairloss sides. Accutane if you get heavy acne. It can really add up fast. Seriously its very likely to end up spending more $$ on your ancillaries than your gear. Depending of course on what sides your prone to.[/quote]

I understand a lot goes into ancillaries. I had Propecia (finasteride) and adex for my first cycle. I’ve taken propecia before (from age 20-22) when I thought I was losing my hair- looks like it was actually just thinning because it got so long (musician). I actually stopped taking the Propecia about the 2nd week into the cycle just to see if I even needed it- and of course I didn’t need it.

I hate taking it because 1) It’s incredibly expensive (unless you get proscar) and 2)It starts growing hair almost immediately and you get all these little hairs on top of your head, that as gay as it sounds, are impossible to tame/manage- and it looks quite embarrassing for a period of time. 3) If you start going bald…you gotta take it for life. Not ready for that commitment just quite yet.

I had the hardest time figuring out my adex dosage. I started out at .25mg EOD but then I started exhibiting symptoms of too high e-suppression. Even when I was doing it E3/4D I had that. So I wouldn’t take it for a week, then I noticed a nipple getting sensitive so I took some and two days later it stopped. And it kinda went on like that for the duration of the cycle except for the last week/week before nolva where I tapered off the adex and actually was taking it every day- but didn’t experience any bad sides.
And yeah, that adex was just about the same price as a 10ml vial. I used so little of it though, I won’t have to buy another one this time around.
Someone at the gym explained to me why not to use HCG- so I didn’t and I won’t. I came back just fine.

Haven’t heard anyone talk about caber here until recently, so that’s something I need to research more.

Two more things-
I’m assuming you were taking a Taurine supp. of some kind to hit 2-3g a day, do you have any recommendations?

And yay or nay on the winny for this cycle? Not looking to go to the beach, but absolutely needing to drop some bodyfat.

Thanks for the input saps and cortes

22

[quote]saps wrote:
Cortes wrote:

From what I know, pretty well any sides, even hair loss, even gyno, are reversible IF the proper precautions are taken and the proper ancillaries on hand or in use before you ever begin. There is no reason that any commonly sited side needs to become any real issue for anyone in this day and age of easy acquisition of damned near anything at all we need.

Great point and yes that is a big IF. What vets learned the hard way and sadly rookies dont fully understand because they can’t without experience is that you must put more time, energy, focus and money into ancillaries than the actual AAS. Obviously those of use who are part of a homebrew operation have relatively low costs for AAS. But even if you buy your stuff online or whatever consider what you’ll need for a mid level test-tren-dbol cycle ancillary wise. You’ll need you AI either letro or adex, depending on whether you get pills or a liquid RC that’s probably going to run you at least as much as a 10ml vial of test [if my understanding of current pricing is right]. You’ll need some caber. Forget any place stuffing it liquid. You may choose to get some nolva for your PCT and those three ancillaries are only for gyno control. There’s finasteride for potential hairloss sides. Accutane if you get heavy acne. It can really add up fast. Seriously its very likely to end up spending more $$ on your ancillaries than your gear. Depending of course on what sides your prone to.[/quote]

Well I dont agree with fina, but some guys with MPB or prostate issues cant live without it.

I don’t agree with accutane unless you bust out in cystic acne or something, just take 4 showers a day and wash your face constantly.

But yeah, your certainly on the right track:

I spend a very large amount on acilliaries, and they take more time to collect than the actual gear. Which is saying something because for reasons Id rather not speak on, I am prevented from brewing anymore, so I pay more than most, and that’s perfectly fine by me.

I routinely buy caber, letro, nolva, HCG, Tretonoin gel, and antibiotics.

Although I haven’t had any problems with it yet, alot of guys regularly order ED drugs on top of that, along with high blood pressures/cholesterol meds, antidepressants, and a whole mess of things.

At this day and age, gear is practically “safe” we are using a massive array of rare and expensive drugs that guys could only have dreamed of having only a few decades ago.

There is no real excuse anymore.

23

[quote]Westclock wrote:

Although I haven’t had any problems with it yet, alot of guys regularly order ED drugs on top of that, along with high blood pressures/cholesterol meds, antidepressants, and a whole mess of things.

At this day and age, gear is practically “safe” we are using a massive array of rare and expensive drugs that guys could only have dreamed of having only a few decades ago.

There is no real excuse anymore.[/quote]

Yes Indeed.
Great additional with the ED drugs. I cant believe I neglected that; especially since I got 5-6 grams of it. Yeah even getting it in RC form is going to run you what $60-70 for a gram and a half in liquid form. The markup on Tadafil is so much higher even than AAS. Im looking at around $1/gram for my stuff versus what $40-50 a gram thru RC. Yikes.

I don’t know a lot of guys who run cholestrol drugs only on cycle. Even few who mess with anti-depressant as an AAS ancillary

24

[quote]saps wrote:

I don’t know a lot of guys who run cholestrol drugs only on cycle. Even few who mess with anti-depressant as an AAS ancillary
[/quote]

At high doses or simply long term usage… blood pressure and cholesterol meds become kind of a requirement for some.

Antidepressants simply because some guys seem to destabilize at high doses.

I don’t personally have experience, needing, anything beyond the “fairly standard”.

But I do know a guy who has been on very high doses for nearly 2-3 years now and hes kind of a mess.

3-4 injectable Steroids, cycling on and off of orals, an AI, HCG, Clen/ephedra and other Stims sometimes amphetamines, Antidepressants, muscle relaxers (lots), pain meds, cortisone injections, Blood Pressure, Cholesterol (statin drugs) among other things.

Even then hes a very edgy guy, and certainly hes very large and strong, larger than myself by a considerable amount.

Some guys can handle the high doses, something like 10% or something; it kinda hits them hard mentally.

This guy refuses to come off, and no one is going to make him, so hes running a ridiculous amount of stuff.

I actually put him on caber, HCG, and an AI, he had been using nolva to deal with estrogen produced by test doses over 3 grams a week among other aromatizing orals.

Honestly its amazing that hes doing as wells as he is all things considered.

25

Wow 3grams a week. For most there is a point of diminishing return somewhere around 1.5-2grams

26

Alright, ordered my stuff.
Going to run:

Week 1-9: Test E- 750mg/wk (actually 375mg E3D- so the cycle will be 9 weeks, instead of 10)
Week 1-4: Dbol- 30mg/day (might run at 40mg)
Week 7-11: Dbol- 30mg/day (might run at 40mg) to bridge PCT

Adex (as needed) will start off with .25mg EOD/E3D

PCT:

Week 12&13: Nolva 50/50
Week 14&15: Nolva 25/25

Probably wont be starting for about a month, at which point I’ll post my current stats.

27

[quote]saps wrote:
Wow 3grams a week. For most there is a point of diminishing return somewhere around 1.5-2grams[/quote]

Hes one of those guys that has simply “topped out”.

Hes a giant, but hes not likely to get larger without resorting to more drastic measures like insulin.

Hes probably gone as far as diet and steriods can take you.
He just keeps upping the doses, 4-5 grams a week total androgen usage easily.
Its ridiculous, hes certainly just wasting gear, theres no way the human body will respond to that much.

Ive told him this, he doesn’t believe me.

Sadly this isnt that uncommon, alot of guys are running absurd doses and not seeing gains, and they are more or less killing themselves for no reason.

28

[quote]Westclock wrote:

Sadly this isnt that uncommon, alot of guys are running absurd doses and not seeing gains, and they are more or less killing themselves for no reason.[/quote]

How true and indeed how very sad