What are the effects if a Beginner go for 250mg per week (one single shot) of Testosterone enanthate for 14-16 weeks? Will the subject gain mass and strength on this considering the subject to be training for 5 years continuously and above he’s 30 years or above? Also HCG will be required in this case fpr PCT or not as test taken is very low. This post is to get the knowledge only. Thanks in advance.
Depends on your nutrition. If you don’t eat and train like you mean it, no dose of test will give you change. 250mg is still above TRT dose (approx 125mg) so yeh, you should see some noticeable gains.
I know guys blasting 1g of test per week and they haven’t changed a bit. Likewise, I know guys on small doses 250mg-300mg per week making significant strides.
A few professional bodybuilders told me: if you don’t respond to small doses, you have no business going higher or even using gear for that matter.
I will let others chime in.
In my experience, test will blow you up, but only if your willing to put the extra effort into getting your calories in.
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As @weightliftingwithoutlimits said, if diet is on point, 250mg/wk is PLENTY to gain muscle mass.
If you plan to come off and do tradition PCT, I would use hCG throughout.
SB
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Yes you will gain, but there is a dose response relationship for sure.
https://www.physiology.org/doi/pdf/10.1152/ajpendo.2001.281.6.E1172
The subjects that took 600 mg Test E vs 300 mg gained 50% more lean mass on average. Just food for thought.
250 mg per week is more than enough to shut you down, so you are taking the risk there the same as if your were to take 400-500 mg/wk.
Yes you will gain on 250, but my feeling on the matter is that 500 is about the same risk, and will probably work better.
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Again, diet and training are key. If you’re going to shut down your natural production though and take that risk, I would personally go at least a bit more. 350-400. Most guys run 500 as a first cycle although certainly not necessary to make gains.
I’ve never run HCG and never had any issues. I actually bounced back better than my pre cycle test levels after last PCT without HCG and only Nolva for PCT.
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I totally agree with the point that 250mg is going to shut too same as 500 or more…thanks for the reply.
Just want to know people say less is good in this thats why I posted this query. Learning all this on my own not gonna use in near future but then we never know wats gonna happen tomorrow. Thanks to everyone who replied.
250 is fine. You will grow. From my experience 500 was no different than 250 for me.
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Which did you do first, the 250 or the 500 mg/wk?
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I don’t understand… Isn’t this supposed to be about one’s Free Testosterone numbers?
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Ultimately, free T is what matters. In the pharma section the goal isn’t to optimize free T for long run, it is to blast higher short term. So dosing is usually in mg/wk.
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200/wk.
With 250 you get around 175-180 mg raw test which is 2-3x the natural amount avg produced in the body. 250 will work fine.
To me taking test is no different than lifting weights. You get the most out of the least until your body forces you to do more in order to gain muscle and strength.
Keep track of your strength increases and measure body parts to see what kind of growth you’re getting each cycle.
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I think 250/w is actually great for someone who’s cutting. But I also don’t think that’s what a first cycle should ever be used for. You have to weight the risks and the benefits of each level of dosing that is out there. You want to find the best asymmetric risk profile and use that one.
For most beginners that’s 500mg because, well, it’s easy to dose, easy to understand, has a long track record of success, and is kind of the baseline standard that’s used. That doesn’t mean it’s the right standard for everyone, but it checks all the boxes for the largest amount of users.
If you eat and train right then 300mg would be more than enough for a beginner. But—and here’s where we have to measure the asymmetry—is “more than enough” actually enough to justify the risks? Would the mass gained (and hopefully kept) on 500 provide a better risk-adjusted return vs 300? From a purely physiological perspective the answer is yes. More testosterone means more ability to gain muscle mass, right? Up to a point. Where is that point? Fuck if I know. Guys blast with a gram a week plus tren plus orals and some of them look downright freakish. Some of them need an insane amount of chemicals because they are truly maxed out. But for the other 99.5% of gym rats a decent amount of test plus a good diet and training program will add appreciable muscle.
So ask yourself: what additional risks are there going from 250 or 300 to 500 and what is the return in muscle that you get for that risk. It’s not always clear. In investing we look at risk-adjusted return to determine if a strategy worked. We back-test results and then apply the findings to the next model we are building. You don’t have that luxury here. You have to test it yourself, track progress, and then go back and see what worked and what didn’t. Then adjust again. And again. And again.
Or just run 500 like everyone else because it’s so much easier than doing what I just outlined. Which do you think most of us choose?
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I guess my point was that if you did 500/wk first, then when you did 200/wk it would probably result in less, right?
You made gains on 200, then you went to 500 and also made gains. I think if done in reverse, you would have gotten most of the gains from the 200 and 500 with just the 500 cycle, and would not be too impressed by the gains you made on 200.
But yes, the least amount should be taken to get the results. That is why I am staying on TRT for some time as I have made gains on just 150/wk. Then I will blast.
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I should have just said what iron said. I skipped his post due to length, but that is exactly what one should consider.
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To clarify something, my endo prescribed 100mg every two weeks. I ignored that completely and jumped to 200mg per week for 12 weeks and made gains with no sides.
Since I had no problems at that dosage I went to 500mg per week. So…I can’t necessarily say my 200 was a TRT dose but more like a light cycle. Basically I was testing the waters to see how my body would react. But as I said before, I never really noticed a big difference between 200 and 500. The sweet spot for me noticing test by itself working more was when I hit 750 per week. That made a difference! For some a gram of test is “magic”. I never ran a gram of test by itself although I’ve certainly been intrigued by it.
Basically I didn’t stop gaining for about 6 months…lol
The difficult thing with blasting is holding back from dumping more into your body every cycle. The problem is if you continue raising the overall dosages every time, at some point the risk is gonna be greater than the reward because you’ll have to run so much more gear to get bigger that you may start running into health issues.
That’s why you take body measurements and if you’re getting stronger.
For example: you run 500 this first time and gain an inch on your legs. Why on earth would you not run 500 again the next cycle? Why add any more mgs or other compounds if it worked that well the first time? Basically, ride that bull til she bucks you off.
Let’s say you get in 3 cycles at 500 and the last cycle you maybe only gained 1/4 inch on your legs. Maybe it was diet? Maybe it was the training intensity? If that all remained the same, then I can see upping the dosage or adding in a different compound.
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Run it 500/week see how you handle testosterone only then look to other compounds in the future if your serious about building muscle and maximizing gains out of a cycle.
Testosterone is way overrated IMO. It’s dirty cheap and gets used at much higher doses then needed when other compounds are much more efficient and in my experience come with less negative side effects.
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I don’t know about that…I’ve always liked test in terms of bang for the buck. Of course if you have deep pockets then it might not apply.
What negative side effects does test have vs other compounds at higher doses? and which compounds in particular?
I am only asking your opinion. Not trying to start an argument with you.
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I totally understand a lot of guys get along great with testosterone at all different doses. At the same time a lot of guys don’t. As we see here on t-nation the weekly threads of issues on test blast.
I will only speak from my experience, high levels of testosterone (above trt) causes me major bloating issues and its not diet/sodium related or estrogen related. My face swells up and I get red like I just left the beach and my skin looks glassy. Iv tried using an AI to keep estrogen in “range” and iv let it roam free to reach the proper ratio and still same effect. Testosterone also makes my sleep horrible and gives me really bad night sweats.
Iv only used a handful of other compounds (tren, mast, var, anadrol) all of which ofcourse come with a laundry list of possible side effects like all drugs, but for me and my body I respond very well to them with very few negative sides if any when run alongside my cruise dose of testosterone.
I think a lot needs to be considered when discussing others future cycles. I often see this cookie cutter layout of use testosterone for 3 cycles then add 1 compound at a time etc which is a great safe layout but it just doesn’t work for all. Things such as age, diet, training, health, BF%, goals, and starting point should all be considered. For someone that’s older that works out 3x a week and has a so so diet and potential health issues I wouldn’t suggest using tren or other strong compounds but I would still suggest looking at alternatives to add like var rather then jacking up more testosterone. For someone in thier 20s or 30s in great health who train hard 5-6 days a week eat clean and are already working with a solid base and have done thier own research I would tell them to not waste their time with multiple test cycles and start looking into stronger compounds.
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What’s your experience, if any, running shorter 6 week blasts using short ester compounds? I’ve come across a few articles on 6 week short ester blast, 6 week trt cruise and then repeat. It has caught my interest.
One example they gave was using prop/npp/dbol for size.
Sorry not trying to hijack this thread…
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